2009 Marlins' options

[Nny]

Here are the players that are out of options that will be battling for spots in ST (Ergo giving them an advantage to make the team):

Frankie De La Cruz

Logan Kensing

Bobby Andino

Dallas McPherson

Jesus Delgado

 

Now just going strait down the 40 man roster

 

Burke Badenhop: 3 options left

Frankie De La Cruz: Out of Options

Jesus Delgado: Out of Options

Harvey Garcia: 1 option left

Kevin Gregg: 1 option left

Josh Johnson: 3 options left

Logan Kensing: Out of options

Matt Lindstrom: 1 option left (Pretty sure one wasn't taken this year because he wasn't down in AAA long enough [According to Cots, need at least 20 days over the course of a season])

Carlos Martinez: 1 option left

Andrew Miller: 2 options left

Joe Nelson: Might actually have an option left. He had an option used by KC in 2006 and boston in 2004. Can't find information dating as far back for earlier in his career though. I'd be on out of options.

Ricky Nolasco: 2 options left

Leo Nunez: Out of options

Scott Olsen: 1 option left

Renyel Pinto: Out of options

Anibal Sanchez: Out of options

Taylor Tankersley: 2 options left

Ryan Tucker: 2 options left

Rick VandenHurk: 1 option left

Chris Volstad: 3 options left

 

John Baker: 2 options left

Mike Rabelo: 2 options left

 

Alfredo Amezaga: Out of options

Robert Andino: Out of options

Jorge Cantu: 2 options left

Dallas McPherson: Out of Options

Hanley Ramirez: 2 options left

Gaby Sanchez: 3 options left

Dan Uggla: 3 options left

 

Brett Carroll: 1 option left

Jeremy Hermida: 3 options left

Cameron Maybin: 2 options left

Jai Miller: 2 options left

Cody Ross: Out of options

Josh Willingham: Out of options

[MarlinsLou]

This completely passed my mind. Andino for sure, but are you sure about Cruz? The CBA was changed so guys at 18 have 5 years before having to be placed on the 40 man. That would mean 07 and 08 were his option years. That didn't apply retroactively to players?

[Nny]

Doesn't look like it

 

Detroit purchased his contract in nov 2005. That's only done to protect guys from rule V.

 

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/transac...t&year=2005

 

And in ST of 2006, he's listed under the option group, not the reassigned group.

 

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/transac...006&month=3

[PBCMarlinsFan]

I think Harvey Garcia still has options with all of the time he spent on the 60-day DL.

[Nny]

I'm also starting to believe that Jesus Delgado does not get a 4th option year.

 

This is what MILB has to say about his 2004 season:

 

"Spent time with Augusta (A) and the Red Sox Gulf Coast League affiliate... went 1-5 with 5.22 ERA in 21 games (16starts) with Augusta... had 2.77 ERA in 13 games on road, and 10.07 ERA in eight games at home.... on disabled listfrom July 10 to August 22, and made one rehab start with the GCL Red Sox... allowed two earned runs in 1.2 inningsin the Gulf Coast League... participated in the Fall Instructional League... pitched for Aragua in the VenezuelanWinter League."

 

The baseball cube didn't have any stats under A, only GCL. But baseball reference does have stats under A, so he definitely pitched in A ball in 2004. The problem? Here's what cots has to say about getting the 4th option year.

 

"A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. (If a player is put on the disabled list after earning 60 or more days of service in a single season, his time on the DL is counted.) The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option."

 

Do to this new information about him playing A ball in 2004, I am to believe Jesus Delgado is out of options. 2004-2008 makes 5 seasons, and it needs to be under 5 seasons to get that 4th option.

[Nny]

I think Harvey Garcia still has options with all of the time he spent on the 60-day DL.

 

He had options used on those years still, sadly.

[Nny]

Actually you are right, he did not use an option year in 2008.

 

Garcia still has an option left.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Updated list with the Garcia/Delgado findings.

[PBCMarlinsFan]

It is too bad what happened to Garcia. He had so much promise. If he has a great ST and brings that fastball I fell in love with back in 2006 and a solid second pitch, I hope he gets his shot - though it won't be easy with all of the arms vying for a spot in our bullpen.

 

Edit: Good to see I was right about that last option.

[MarlinsLou]

Doesn't look like it

 

Detroit purchased his contract in nov 2005. That's only done to protect guys from rule V.

 

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/transac...t&year=2005

 

And in ST of 2006, he's listed under the option group, not the reassigned group.

 

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/transac...006&month=3

Gotcha.

 

----

 

Andino causes problems. Here are our top 13 hitters.

 

John Baker $405,000

Gaby Sanchez $400,000

Dan Uggla $4,400,000

Jorge Cantu $4,500,000

Hanley Ramirez $5,500,000

Jeremy Hermida $2,500,000

Cameron Maybin $400,000

Cody Ross $3,000,000

 

Alfredo Amezaga $1,750,000

Josh Willingham $2,000,000

Wes Helms $950,000

Dallas McPherson $550,000

Robert Andino $415,000

 

I do not think the Marlins will cut Andino loose because they do like him, and it's pretty unlikely he passes through waivers.

 

Notice no backup catcher.

 

Only Maybin and G. Sanchez have options left. One of those two will be in AAA to carry a catcher unless one of the other outfielders is traded. I only see two scenarios

 

A - Keep Gaby

 

John Baker $405,000

Gaby Sanchez $400,000

Dan Uggla $4,400,000

Jorge Cantu $4,500,000

Hanley Ramirez $5,500,000

Jeremy Hermida $2,500,000

Cody Ross $3,000,000

Josh Willingham $2,000,000

 

Alfredo Amezaga $1,750,000

Wes Helms $950,000

Dallas McPherson $550,000

Robert Andino $415,000

Backup Catcher

 

This team is loaded in the infield, but thin for backup outfielder purposes.

 

B - Keep Maybin

 

John Baker $405,000

Jorge Cantu $4,500,000

Dan Uggla $4,400,000

Dallas McPherson $550,000

Hanley Ramirez $5,500,000

Jeremy Hermida $2,500,000

Cameron Maybin $400,000

Cody Ross $3,000,000

 

Josh Willingham $2,000,000

Alfredo Amezaga $1,750,000

Wes Helms $950,000

Robert Andino $415,000

Backup Catcher

 

This team makes a lot more sense as long as Willingham brings his 1B glove to the ballpark. They would have a depth chart like this

1B - Cantu/McPherson/Willingham/Helms

3B -McPherson/Cantu/Helms

LF - Ross/Willingham

 

More than adequate. This is the much smarter option to open the year with.

 

Pitching wise

 

Josh Johnson $1,750,000

Ricky Nolasco $3,000,000

Chris Volstad $405,000

Andrew Miller $1,350,000

Anibal Sanchez $420,000

 

Matt Lindstrom $420,000

Joe Nelson $800,000

Leo Nunez $420,000

Reynel Pinto $420,000

Logan Kensing $550,000

E. Cruz $400,000

J. Delgado $400,000

 

This is without Olsen and Gregg obviously. Tank still has options no no problems there. Pitching wise no problems. It would be scary to put Cruz and Delgado as the 6-7, but I mean they have produced in the minors and if Delgado fails, he is an easy DFA. They could live with Cruz as the 7th for awhile before figuring out what to do with him.

 

 

OVERALL

 

John Baker $405,000

Jorge Cantu $4,500,000

Dan Uggla $4,400,000

Dallas McPherson $550,000

Hanley Ramirez $5,500,000

Jeremy Hermida $2,500,000

Cameron Maybin $400,000

Cody Ross $3,000,000

 

Alfredo Amezaga $1,750,000

Josh Willingham $2,000,000

Wes Helms $950,000

Robert Andino $415,000

BACK UP CATCHER

 

Josh Johnson $1,750,000

Ricky Nolasco $3,000,000

Chris Volstad $405,000

Andrew Miller $1,350,000

Anibal Sanchez $420,000

 

Matt Lindstrom $420,000

Joe Nelson $800,000

Leo Nunez $420,000

Reynel Pinto $420,000

Logan Kensing $550,000

E. Cruz $400,000

J. Delgado $400,000

 

$36,705,000 without a backup catcher

 

Top call ups

 

C - Rabelo

IF - G. Sanchez, Coghlan

OF - Raynor, Carroll, De Aza

P - Tucker, Tank, Vanden Hurk, Thompson

[RJA87]

I understand they like Andino, but does anyone see him having much of a place on the team anytime soon? He is blocked everywhere, would it make sense to trade him?

[MarlinsLou]

I understand they like Andino, but does anyone see him having much of a place on the team anytime soon? He is blocked everywhere, would it make sense to trade him?

I do. 25th man for 2009 playing everywhere, it also opens Amezaga up for more playing time as he won't be the only middle infielder on the bench. Then hopefully for 2010, Andino would take over for Amezaga.

 

I know the board will hate it, but I don't see them cutting him loose.

[PBCMarlinsFan]

The current locks to make the Marlins bullpen out of ST seem to be:

 

1) Matt Lindstrom

2) Leo Nunez

3) Joe Nelson

4) Renyel Pinto

5) Logan Kensing

 

Likely but not set in stone due to being out of options:

 

6) Jesus Delgado

 

50/50 chance:

 

7) Frankie de la Cruz

 

Which means that barring more trades, our bullpen is pretty much set. I haven't really been that impressed with Eulogio, so I'll go ahead and say that the one spot all of the rest of the relievers hope to get out of ST. I will not be surprised in the least if Eulogio is DFAed.

[BosnianBaller_]

i don't want DLC, he's a bum

[Rambo McDonald]

i don't want DLC, he's a bum

 

Brilliant.

[Erick]

i don't want DLC, he's a bum

 

 

[Erick]

The current locks to make the Marlins bullpen out of ST seem to be:

 

1) Matt Lindstrom

2) Leo Nunez

3) Joe Nelson

4) Renyel Pinto

5) Logan Kensing

 

Likely but not set in stone due to being out of options:

 

6) Jesus Delgado

 

50/50 chance:

 

7) Frankie de la Cruz

 

Which means that barring more trades, our bullpen is pretty much set. I haven't really been that impressed with Eulogio, so I'll go ahead and say that the one spot all of the rest of the relievers hope to get out of ST. I will not be surprised in the least if Eulogio is DFAed.

 

 

Logan Kensing is far from a lock, imo.

And I'd say Ryan Tucker has AT LEAST a 50/50 chance. Along with some others.

[B1az3]

i don't want DLC, he's a bum

 

I approve this message.

[Nny]

very slim chance tucker makes the team out of ST due to how many limited spots we have and the players we have out of options.

 

He'll likely start in AAA, we let the BP figure it out for itself, and replace the weakest links.

 

I really am not looking foward to this BP personally.

 

Joe Nelson I think is only an average arm and when his BABIP goes back up (.268) so is the rest of his stats. If he goes Justin Miller on his, he's waived w/o thought. He's going to have a short lease.

 

I still think Lindstrom is only really an average arm. A lot of people bring up his stats after his demotion, but again extremely low babip (.261). Even out his BABIP and you're looking at ~1.33 WHIP post demotion (Giving him 9 more hits against puts him at .295 BABIP). The main plus regarding his demotion was his improved BB/K on the year (2.18), but it was still nothing like his rookie season of 2.95. It was nice to see his BB numbers going back to being good like they were in 2007, but he still couldn't K sh*t, 6.55 K/9. If he goes back to Lindstrom version 2007 then cool. And one of the major plus's of him is he rarely gives up HRs. It might just be luck since we still are talking about a small sample size, only 124.1 ip overall, but he was at ~2% HR/FLY both years. So even though he will likely put up a kinda high WHIP, it's ok because his ERA will still stay low due to the lack of HRs.

 

Leo Nunez is same case as Lindstrom when it comes to K/9's. Can he go back to being the strikeout guy he was in 2007? Plus a low BABIP. And, unlike Lindstrom, his HR/FLY isn't going to be sustainable. But unlike Lindstrom, who can still be optioned, or Nelson who we wouldn't think twice of DFAing, he'll have a very long leash considering he's out of options, young, and we just traded for him.

 

Pinto, Kensing, I doubt I need to get into their problems. Pinto is going to have a long leash because he's a "lefty", even though his career numbers are worse against LHB then they are against RHB. But both have been putting up unimpressive WHIPs after unimpressive WHIPs, and again unlike Lindstrom, you're looking at these guys giving up HRs. I keep both, and I do give Pinto a longer leash not because he's a lefty but because of his '07 and start of '08, but I don't hesitate to cut my losses and then call up the likes of Tucker and co.

 

and DLC will likely have a good leash based off his potential, but doubtful Delgado does. And that doesn't have to only be via DFA, young out of option relievers on teams without room for them getting traded to a team that needs BP spots filled is nothing new. Our return isn't gonna be anything cool but better than nothing.

[Erick]

very slim chance tucker makes the team out of ST due to how many limited spots we have and the players we have out of options.

 

He'll likely start in AAA, we let the BP figure it out for itself, and replace the weakest links.

 

I really am not looking foward to this BP personally.

 

Joe Nelson I think is only an average arm and when his BABIP goes back up (.268) so is the rest of his stats. If he goes Justin Miller on his, he's waived w/o thought. He's going to have a short lease.

 

I still think Lindstrom is only really an average arm. A lot of people bring up his stats after his demotion, but again extremely low babip (.261). Even out his BABIP and you're looking at ~1.33 WHIP post demotion (Giving him 9 more hits against puts him at .295 BABIP). The main plus regarding his demotion was his improved BB/K on the year (2.18), but it was still nothing like his rookie season of 2.95. It was nice to see his BB numbers going back to being good like they were in 2007, but he still couldn't K sh*t, 6.55 K/9. If he goes back to Lindstrom version 2007 then cool. And one of the major plus's of him is he rarely gives up HRs. It might just be luck since we still are talking about a small sample size, only 124.1 ip overall, but he was at ~2% HR/FLY both years. So even though he will likely put up a kinda high WHIP, it's ok because his ERA will still stay low due to the lack of HRs.

 

Leo Nunez is same case as Lindstrom when it comes to K/9's. Can he go back to being the strikeout guy he was in 2007? Plus a low BABIP. And, unlike Lindstrom, his HR/FLY isn't going to be sustainable. But unlike Lindstrom, who can still be optioned, or Nelson who we wouldn't think twice of DFAing, he'll have a very long leash considering he's out of options, young, and we just traded for him.

 

Pinto, Kensing, I doubt I need to get into their problems. Pinto is going to have a long leash because he's a "lefty", even though his career numbers are worse against LHB then they are against RHB. But both have been putting up unimpressive WHIPs after unimpressive WHIPs, and again unlike Lindstrom, you're looking at these guys giving up HRs. I keep both, and I do give Pinto a longer leash not because he's a lefty but because of his '07 and start of '08, but I don't hesitate to cut my losses and then call up the likes of Tucker and co.

 

and DLC will likely have a good leash based off his potential, but doubtful Delgado does. And that doesn't have to only be via DFA, young out of option relievers on teams without room for them getting traded to a team that needs BP spots filled is nothing new. Our return isn't gonna be anything cool but better than nothing.

 

I agree with you on Joe Nelson, Nny...and I have no problem with your opinions on Lindstrom / Nunez either.

 

Bullpens are tough to figure out b/c bullpen pitchers pitch differently year-in, year-out, and most of our guys are fairly young.

 

Just look at the Rays and Phils. Their pens improved dramatically this year...and really it was with guys like Wheeler, Balfour, and Howell with the Rays...who would've expected that? The Phillies did it with J.C. Romero who was good back in his days with Minnesota...then had a downfall, himself. And no one expected Lidge to not blow one save (lucky or not...personally, I think he did get lucky when you consider he had a fairly high WHIP).

 

I still think the Marlins can add some guys through free agency, though. I would still like to have Will Ohman, personally...maybe it's just me, but I think that'd be a safe pick / fairly cheap. Ohman has owned lefties throughout his career. It'd be good to have him, especially after Tank's struggles this past year...and even if Tank re-emerges (which I still have hope for) then we'd have 2 lefty specialists...which isn't a bad thing to have either, especially considering all the good left-handed / switch-hitters in the NL East.

 

I would've liked to keep Waechter, but I guess that's not happening. Not sure if you or anyone else agrees with me...but I, personally, would've kept Waechter before Joe Nelson.

[MarlinsLou]

I have to disagree overall nny. I agree they are mostly average potential arms and nothing dominant, but if we can get 7 average arms, that is probably as good as a bullpen with 2 dominant, 2 average, 1 ok, and 2 bad.

 

They will figure out 7 from this:

 

Lindstrom, Nunez, Nelson, Pinto, Kensing, Cruz, Delgado

Tucker, Tank, Vanden Hurk, Thompson, Mobley, Sinkbiel, Doolittle

Wood, Badenhop, Marceaux, Trahern, Garcia, Martinez, and minor league free agents

 

The attrition process will be frustrating, but this is very manageable. Most teams don't send their 15th (or so) best RP option to the AFL.

[Nny]

also, since this has basically become a "let's talk Marlins bullpen" thread, Lee Gardner filed for free agency

[Nny]

Bullpens are tough to figure out b/c bullpen pitchers pitch differently year-in, year-out, and most of our guys are fairly young.

 

Just look at the Rays and Phils. Their pens improved dramatically this year...and really it was with guys like Wheeler, Balfour, and Howell with the Rays...who would've expected that? The Phillies did it with J.C. Romero who was good back in his days with Minnesota...then had a downfall, himself. And no one expected Lidge to not blow one save (lucky or not...personally, I think he did get lucky when you consider he had a fairly high WHIP).

 

While you are right because of the low sample size when it comes to what BP guys get, you are using poor examples. Wheeler has been good for a long time now, he was just unlucky with HRs last year. JP Howell has been doing very well in the minor leagues and had very good peripherals in 06 and 07. And Balfour had a .219! BABIP. And you yourself know why bringing up Lides saves is pointless.

 

I do agree that I'd prefer to see us go out and get a lefty arm, but Tank should be fine as a LOOGY.

[Nny]

I have to disagree overall nny. I agree they are mostly average potential arms and nothing dominant, but if we can get 7 average arms, that is probably as good as a bullpen with 2 dominant, 2 average, 1 ok, and 2 bad.

 

They will figure out 7 from this:

 

Lindstrom, Nunez, Nelson, Pinto, Kensing, Cruz, Delgado

Tucker, Tank, Vanden Hurk, Thompson, Mobley, Sinkbiel, Doolittle

Wood, Badenhop, Marceaux, Trahern, Garcia, Martinez, and minor league free agents

 

The attrition process will be frustrating, but this is very manageable. Most teams don't send their 15th (or so) best RP option to the AFL.

 

I agree that guys in the minors coming up should help even things out. I don't like the intial 7 though. I think having a BP full of average guys is good if you have a bad SP that can't go 4 IP more than half the time (see: our rotation at the start of '08), but if you have a good rotation that is giving you 5-6 IP a game most of the time, I'd rather have the heavy top end. But even if it's arguable/semantics, I don't think we'll have be having average throughout out the gate.

 

And, I mean, I don't have much hope for Kensing and Pinto. Those guys are going to become at best average arms unless they figure their control out. Delgado is likely going to fit that same exact mold aswell. Most likely we're looking at ERA's over 4, WHIPs over 1.45, we're most likely looking at bad arms.

 

I think Joe Nelson will still be "cool" but by that I mean an average reliever we picked up off the trash heap. I'm hoping Matty and DLC will be about the same ~1.30 WHIP guys but with low 3 ERAs because of their ability to limit XBHs. And I still don't know what to expect out of Nunez right now.

 

So I might, right now I'm looking at our initial 7 of being 2 good, 1 average, 3 bad, and 1 I'm not really sure at the moment.

 

When we start calling up Tucker and co then yeah, we could be cool. I mean, you look at the top guys who'll likely be called up to replace those three bad, and you're looking at

 

Tucker: Big time potential

Tankersely: Has been good against LHB he's entire career, it's just unfortunately he'll be nothing more than a LOOGY

RVH: Unlike the other high K, low control guys, he K's even more. I think he'll be a good BP arm. My only concern is his XBH given up.

Mobley: first time I actually looked at his stats. 4.38 BB/K, 2.93 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, and a .314 BABIP so that's by no means lucky. Jesus christ I'm looking forward to him right now.

 

and so forth

 

And also of course Owens, who can hopefully battle back from injury but unsure if he could become a minor league FA or not.

[MarlinsLou]

Mobley's been one of my favorites for awhile. He is very under the radar, but he is going to be good. Going into 2010 I expect Lindstrom, Nunez, Tucker, Mobley, Thompson, Cruz, and Vanden Hurk. The problem is trying out Nelson, Kensing, Delgado, Tank, Badenhop, and giving those other ones some time to develop. I think by mid-season this sorts itself out, but I agree. The bullpen out of the gates will have to heavily rely on Lindstrom, Nunez, Nelson, and Pinto. I also agree if you have the strong starting staff like we do, it's better to have two dominant guys and a weaker back end of the pen, versus a stable 1-7.

[Jimmy]

Are people really so quick to toss Vanden Hurk out of consideration for the rotation? He has the stuff to be an every 5th day guy, they just need to let him develop in the Southern League for a full year.