Jorge Cantu

[Retro_Marlins25]

Hermida sucks----cant hit or field--------i wish they traded him instead of hammer

 

Sigh

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

[Rambo McDonald]

Hermida sucks----cant hit or field--------i wish they traded him instead of hammer

 

Sigh

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

 

 

 

Are you arguing about talent or production?

[Retro_Marlins25]

Hermida sucks----cant hit or field--------i wish they traded him instead of hammer

 

Sigh

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

 

 

 

Are you arguing about talent or production?

Three seasons have been wasted on Hermida.Let's put it that way.We could have easily gotten much better production for three years from another outfielder.The storm may not be over yet.......

[SixYearItch]

assuming Bonafacio plays 3B (which is a big time assumption) and the fish keep Uggla (another assumption) I dont see there being an open competition at 1B....The way Cantu played last year there is almost no way that Sanchez or Dallas would be him out even if he has a poor Spring.............Which makes me think (under the great aforementioned assumptions) that the team isnt in love with Gaby at the moment

 

What do you guys think

Beinfest is more in love with the speed and defense principle. He sees Bonafacio as having it (whether we agree about that or not), and Gaby and Dallas don't, not that either of them should be faulted for it. I'm guessing his thinking is that if he's going to introduce a newcomer, with no to relatively little MLB experience, to our infield, he wants a speed and defense guy. Makes sense as with Cantu, Uggla and Ramirez the power and extra base hits are already there. Cantu moves to first as that's where he's servicable defensively, and of course Bonafacio's absense of power at 3rd, a major negative, is couterbalanced by Uggla's huge power numbers at 2nd. All decent if Bonfacio hits at least 270, with at least an 360 OBP. Of course, I doubt he does that. I certainly don't think he should be taking major AB's from McPherson against righties. We'll need a lefty power bat.

 

Not looking at 2010, where much of this may change. I don't see Cantu or Uggla being traded before or during the 2009 season, unless our 2009 season goes in the toilet early.

 

Gaby I'm afraid will be starving for AB's, and will have to get them in NOLA. The only thing that can change this dynamic is for him to have an off the charts spring training performance.

[Rambo McDonald]

Hermida sucks----cant hit or field--------i wish they traded him instead of hammer

 

Sigh

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

 

 

 

Are you arguing about talent or production?

Three seasons have been wasted on Hermida.Let's put it that way.We could have easily gotten much better production for three years from another outfielder.The storm may not be over yet.......

 

IN 2007, HE HAD A .870 OPS. .870. He was a top 5 RF in all of baseball. He is 25 years old.

[MarlinsLou]

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

 

Three seasons have been wasted on Hermida.Let's put it that way.We could have easily gotten much better production for three years from another outfielder.The storm may not be over yet.......

Loria has nothing to do with player development. It's also not a cheap issue because Hermida could easily turn into an above average bat over night. You don't give up on 24 year old players. How many times do we have to go over this. He's going to be fine. How about smart people, like Bill James. He predicts Hermida to be the second best hitter on the team in 2009 - .275/.363/.459 (.822). Sounds about right to me. And for giggles, he predicts Maybin to be the third best hitter - .276/.362/.445 (.806). His analysis includes Uggla, who he has a higher OPS score for .261/.344/.488 (.833), but lower Runs Created scores (5.86 - 5.79 - 5.69) which is the all important goal of the offense.

 

And we could have rivaled Hermida's production, .267/.342/.436 (.779), over the last 3 years by stop gapping with nominal FA vets. Sure. But that would have cost free agent dollars, and we would have had a 0% chance of replicating the .870 OPS from 2007 or finding someone with the same longterm potential he displays.

 

This Hermida complaining is really ridiculous. Yea, 2008 was really disappointing. REALLY disappointing. It's not the end of the world, he's still a kid, he's still developing. I can't wait until he starts hitting, just like in the summer of 2007, and all of you look like retards for wanting to get rid of him at the first sign of trouble.

[MarlinsLou]

Gaby I'm afraid will be starving for AB's, and will have to get them in NOLA. The only thing that can change this dynamic is for him to have an off the charts spring training performance.

Or we trade Cantu, acquire a 1B/OF, and roll out this:

 

C John Baker / "New Right Handed Catcher"

1B Gaby Sanchez / "New 1B/OF" / Wes Helms

2B Dan Uggla / Emilio Bonifacio / Alfredo Amezaga

3B Dallas McPherson / Bonifacio / Helms

SS Hanley Ramirez / Alfredo Amezaga / Bonifacio

RF Jeremy Hermida / Ross / Maybin

CF Cameron Maybin / Ross / Amezaga

LF Cody Ross / "New 1B/OF" / Bonifacio

 

I find this a very likely depth chart. Coupled with the pitching, the team is $31 million (assuming CC for new 1B/OF, C)

[SixYearItch]

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

 

Three seasons have been wasted on Hermida.Let's put it that way.We could have easily gotten much better production for three years from another outfielder.The storm may not be over yet.......

Loria has nothing to do with player development. It's also not a cheap issue because Hermida could easily turn into an above average bat over night. You don't give up on 24 year old players. How many times do we have to go over this. He's going to be fine. How about smart people, like Bill James. He predicts Hermida to be the second best hitter on the team in 2009 - .275/.363/.459 (.822). Sounds about right to me. And for giggles, he predicts Maybin to be the third best hitter - .276/.362/.445 (.806). His analysis includes Uggla, who he has a higher OPS score for .261/.344/.488 (.833), but lower Runs Created scores (5.86 - 5.79 - 5.69) which is the all important goal of the offense.

 

And we could have rivaled Hermida's production, .267/.342/.436 (.779), over the last 3 years by stop gapping with nominal FA vets. Sure. But that would have cost free agent dollars, and we would have had a 0% chance of replicating the .870 OPS from 2007 or finding someone with the same longterm potential he displays.

 

This Hermida complaining is really ridiculous. Yea, 2008 was really disappointing. REALLY disappointing. It's not the end of the world, he's still a kid, he's still developing. I can't wait until he starts hitting, just like in the summer of 2007, and all of you look like retards for wanting to get rid of him at the first sign of trouble.

 

Amen. Enough of the Hermida bashing. I really want this kid to succeed, and with us, and I'm confident he will. The Summer of 2007 proves he can. His performance wasn't an aberration.

[popeyethesailor]

It's true.Jeffrey Loria needs to stop waiting on players like Hermida because Hermida is cheap, and spend some money on better talent.

 

Three seasons have been wasted on Hermida.Let's put it that way.We could have easily gotten much better production for three years from another outfielder.The storm may not be over yet.......

Loria has nothing to do with player development. It's also not a cheap issue because Hermida could easily turn into an above average bat over night. You don't give up on 24 year old players. How many times do we have to go over this. He's going to be fine. How about smart people, like Bill James. He predicts Hermida to be the second best hitter on the team in 2009 - .275/.363/.459 (.822). Sounds about right to me. And for giggles, he predicts Maybin to be the third best hitter - .276/.362/.445 (.806). His analysis includes Uggla, who he has a higher OPS score for .261/.344/.488 (.833), but lower Runs Created scores (5.86 - 5.79 - 5.69) which is the all important goal of the offense.

 

And we could have rivaled Hermida's production, .267/.342/.436 (.779), over the last 3 years by stop gapping with nominal FA vets. Sure. But that would have cost free agent dollars, and we would have had a 0% chance of replicating the .870 OPS from 2007 or finding someone with the same longterm potential he displays.

 

This Hermida complaining is really ridiculous. Yea, 2008 was really disappointing. REALLY disappointing. It's not the end of the world, he's still a kid, he's still developing. I can't wait until he starts hitting, just like in the summer of 2007, and all of you look like retards for wanting to get rid of him at the first sign of trouble.

 

What does Bill James predict for our starting rotation in 2009?

[MarlinsLou]

What does Bill James predict for our starting rotation in 2009?

To simply state it, High 3s Nolasco and JJ, low/mid 4 Anibal, mid/high 4 Miller, Volstad not there. But he'd probably be a high 3/low 4.

 

You don't want to know what he thinks of the bullpen. All low-mid 4's. All of them.

[Retro_Marlins25]

Yeah let's pull out the Tarot Cards MarlinsLou.

 

I predict Hermida will get injured again next season and still be nothing special.

[Rambo McDonald]

Yeah let's pull out the Tarot Cards MarlinsLou.

 

I predict Hermida will get injured again next season and still be nothing special.

 

I predict you to make uneducated opinions on the board.

[Wild Card]

Gaby I'm afraid will be starving for AB's, and will have to get them in NOLA. The only thing that can change this dynamic is for him to have an off the charts spring training performance.

Or we trade Cantu, acquire a 1B/OF, and roll out this:

 

C John Baker / "New Right Handed Catcher"

1B Gaby Sanchez / "New 1B/OF" / Wes Helms

2B Dan Uggla / Emilio Bonifacio / Alfredo Amezaga

3B Dallas McPherson / Bonifacio / Helms

SS Hanley Ramirez / Alfredo Amezaga / Bonifacio

RF Jeremy Hermida / Ross / Maybin

CF Cameron Maybin / Ross / Amezaga

LF Cody Ross / "New 1B/OF" / Bonifacio

 

I find this a very likely depth chart. Coupled with the pitching, the team is $31 million (assuming CC for new 1B/OF, C)

 

I really don't want to trade Cantu. I don't think there is any chance that you will receive anything near his actual value in any trade. If I'm Beinfest, I am trying to find any and all avenues possible in order to keep all of the possible projected starters in Marlin uniforms. The only person worth dealing at this point is Uggla, and I wouldn't be opposed to it if he retrieved a phenominal return. BUT, if not, I'd rather just keep what we have. Dealing anyone else is neither worth it nor neccessary.

[Rambo McDonald]

I can't imagine Jorge Cantu being worth that much

[Wild Card]

I can't imagine Jorge Cantu being worth that much

 

He's worth much more than he would net right now, it's pointless to trade Cantu this year. Play him this season, let him repeat his success, now we're talking about a legitimate middle-of-the-order hitter who has proven it three times over, and is still young. THEN you pull the trigger.

[Retro_Marlins25]

Yeah let's pull out the Tarot Cards MarlinsLou.

 

I predict Hermida will get injured again next season and still be nothing special.

 

I predict you to make uneducated opinions on the board.

I predict a nooby named Rambo McDonald to twist the factual disappointment of Hermida into wishful superstardom.

 

He will be traded like all others under this cheap franchise.So basically If he get much better, he is gone.

[Wild Card]

Yeah let's pull out the Tarot Cards MarlinsLou.

 

I predict Hermida will get injured again next season and still be nothing special.

 

I predict you to make uneducated opinions on the board.

I predict a nooby named Rambo McDonald to twist the factual disappointment of Hermida into wishful superstardom.

 

He will be traded like all others under this cheap franchise.So basically If he get much better, he is gone.

 

I disagree. I believe that if Hermida does succeed this year, he will be that second long-term deal, and they'll be able to get it a lot cheaper than they should. Uggla will not get that deal, not from this franchise at his age. The only two players I can see starting for this team come 2011 when that new stadiums fills with Miami Marlin fans are Hanley Ramirez and Jeremy Hermida. And rightfully so, considering we have great prospects everywhere on the field for that season except (convenient) SS and OF (besides Stanton, who will round out the Hermida/Maybin/Stanton OF).

[Rambo McDonald]

I can't imagine Jorge Cantu being worth that much

 

He's worth much more than he would net right now, it's pointless to trade Cantu this year. Play him this season, let him repeat his success, now we're talking about a legitimate middle-of-the-order hitter who has proven it three times over, and is still young. THEN you pull the trigger.

 

Cantu had an average season this year. I just don't seem him being worth that much, then again... you never know what GMs are feeling on a given day.

[mystikol87]

Beinfest is more in love with the speed and defense principle. He sees Bonafacio as having it (whether we agree about that or not), and Gaby and Dallas don't, not that either of them should be faulted for it. I'm guessing his thinking is that if he's going to introduce a newcomer, with no to relatively little MLB experience, to our infield, he wants a speed and defense guy. Makes sense as with Cantu, Uggla and Ramirez the power and extra base hits are already there. Cantu moves to first as that's where he's servicable defensively, and of course Bonafacio's absense of power at 3rd, a major negative, is couterbalanced by Uggla's huge power numbers at 2nd. All decent if Bonfacio hits at least 270, with at least an 360 OBP. Of course, I doubt he does that. I certainly don't think he should be taking major AB's from McPherson against righties. We'll need a lefty power bat.

 

Not looking at 2010, where much of this may change. I don't see Cantu or Uggla being traded before or during the 2009 season, unless our 2009 season goes in the toilet early.

 

Gaby I'm afraid will be starving for AB's, and will have to get them in NOLA. The only thing that can change this dynamic is for him to have an off the charts spring training performance.

 

Gaby has very good speed and is considered a very good defender, so that doesn't hold water.

[Rambo McDonald]

Gaby does not have much speed. I'd consider him in the Josh Willingham mode of base running smarts over speed. Stolen bases in the minors can be deceiving.

[mystikol87]

Yeah let's pull out the Tarot Cards MarlinsLou.

 

I predict Hermida will get injured again next season and still be nothing special.

 

I predict you to make uneducated opinions on the board.

I predict a nooby named Rambo McDonald to twist the factual disappointment of Hermida into wishful superstardom.

 

He will be traded like all others under this cheap franchise.So basically If he get much better, he is gone.

 

:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

 

Really? Really???? REALLY?!?!??!??!?!?

 

Honestly, it's getting really tiresome doing this crap about Hermida "sucking" over and over again.

 

How the heck can you compare Bill James' statistical predictions to Tarot Cards? Ridiculous.

 

By the way, does anyone know Bonifacio's minor-league LHP/RHP splits?

[mystikol87]

Gaby does not have much speed. I'd consider him in the Josh Willingham mode of base running smarts over speed. Stolen bases in the minors can be deceiving.

 

I'll take your word for it. Either way, his speed doesn't compare to Bonifacio's in reality

[MarlinsLou]

Yeah let's pull out the Tarot Cards MarlinsLou.

 

I predict Hermida will get injured again next season and still be nothing special.

 

I predict you to make uneducated opinions on the board.

I predict a nooby named Rambo McDonald to twist the factual disappointment of Hermida into wishful superstardom.

 

He will be traded like all others under this cheap franchise.So basically If he get much better, he is gone.

 

I disagree. I believe that if Hermida does succeed this year, he will be that second long-term deal, and they'll be able to get it a lot cheaper than they should. Uggla will not get that deal, not from this franchise at his age. The only two players I can see starting for this team come 2011 when that new stadiums fills with Miami Marlin fans are Hanley Ramirez and Jeremy Hermida. And rightfully so, considering we have great prospects everywhere on the field for that season except (convenient) SS and OF (besides Stanton, who will round out the Hermida/Maybin/Stanton OF).

Morrison moving to LF doesn't bode well for Hermida longterm. I expect them to go year to year with him and wait to see what happens with Gaby and Logan. If both of them are hitting, Jeremy is gone. If only one of them is hitting, then maybe they would consider a deal. We have a lot of big years coming from Raynor, Cousins, and Petersen for their development. They could make Hermida a luxury. Big year for the outfielders in our organization across all levels. This will sort itself out naturally.

 

I see Maybin as the next long term deal. And Volstad as the third. Hopefully both post 2009.

[MarlinsLou]

By the way, does anyone know Bonifacio's minor-league LHP/RHP splits?

He can't hit lefties. Does well against right handers

 

www.minorleaguesplits.com

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

Loria has nothing to do with player development. It's also not a cheap issue because Hermida could easily turn into an above average bat over night. You don't give up on 24 year old players. How many times do we have to go over this. He's going to be fine. How about smart people, like Bill James. He predicts Hermida to be the second best hitter on the team in 2009 - .275/.363/.459 (.822). Sounds about right to me. And for giggles, he predicts Maybin to be the third best hitter - .276/.362/.445 (.806). His analysis includes Uggla, who he has a higher OPS score for .261/.344/.488 (.833), but lower Runs Created scores (5.86 - 5.79 - 5.69) which is the all important goal of the offense.

 

And we could have rivaled Hermida's production, .267/.342/.436 (.779), over the last 3 years by stop gapping with nominal FA vets. Sure. But that would have cost free agent dollars, and we would have had a 0% chance of replicating the .870 OPS from 2007 or finding someone with the same longterm potential he displays.

 

This Hermida complaining is really ridiculous. Yea, 2008 was really disappointing. REALLY disappointing. It's not the end of the world, he's still a kid, he's still developing. I can't wait until he starts hitting, just like in the summer of 2007, and all of you look like retards for wanting to get rid of him at the first sign of trouble.

At what point do you stop waiting to see what someone COULD do? A lot of smart people also predicted Hermida would be ROTY candidate in 2006.

 

And please, will all you Hermida apologists stop acting like it's just 2008 where he dissapointed. Hermida had a dissapointing 2006 with a 700 OPS, a dissapointing first half of 2007 with a 744 OPS, and a dissapointing 2008 with a 729 OPS. He only had one stretch in the second half of 2007, a span of less than 260 ABs where hit a ridiculous 956 OPS that no one here can seriously expect him to ever sustain. So please stop harping on that 870 OPS as though it's indicative of a consistent performance throughout the season when it has more to do with one really good and long hot streak.

 

Back to the main topic, we really need to wait and see if Cantu will stay, but I hope he does, and I think he has earned the confidence of the FO. And just because the team acquired Bonifacio doesn't mean that he will necessarily be a starter at any position.