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Is It Time To Start Thinking Of Firing Fredi Gonzalez


superfish
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It isn't his fault we're playing this badly; with that said, I still wish Girardi was our manager.

 

Why? It came to pass that he overused every single one of our arms, which destroyed our 2007.

 

Not to mention he hasn't exactly taken the billion dollar team to the promise land.

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I would both Pressley and Wiley. I think we're about a week late for that already. Fredi I'd give some more time but some of his lineups and moves he's made lately have been head scratchers. The FO likes him so he isn't going anywhere anyways.

 

 

Perhaps his headscratching moves lately are a result of the team struggling as a whole and trying new things to shake them up.

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Which is why I said I would give him more time. With such a team slump you have to shake things up. We're in agreement here. With Wiley and Pressley, I think we've seen few improvements and even some regressions while they've been here. With the team playing as bad as they are a change should be made and I believe it should start with those two.

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I don't think Wiley will be gone thanks to his work with the bullpen this year (and I believe Dan Meyer credited Wiley in a recent article with helping him develop a new pitch that has turned his career around). And to answer the question posed in the first post, no, it is not time to start thinking of firing Fredi Gonzalez.

 

I'm a big fan of stability, and what's sad is that we are in the 17th year of the Marlins as a franchise on the field, and the longest-tenured manager for us was Rene Lachemann at 3 1/2 years. That's way too much turnover for my liking and I'd like to keep someone here for a while. Obviously that doesn't excuse bad managing, but I also don't think Fredi necessarily fits into that category either.

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It isn't his fault we're playing this badly; with that said, I still wish Girardi was our manager.

 

Why? It came to pass that he overused every single one of our arms, which destroyed our 2007.

 

Not to mention he hasn't exactly taken the billion dollar team to the promise land.

I agree with 100% with you Rab.

 

Personally, I don't think we should fire Fredi.....I think we should step back and look at the higher powers that are behind him and evaluate the decisions they make of who comes up and down and who we trade or what not. Techinically all Fredi can do is play the players he is given. He isn't in charge of putting Amezaga over Maybin or what not.

 

And yes, this thread happens EVERY season ever since I have been on Marlinsbaseball.com.....that's over 11 years now.

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Anyone think because a manager get toss he is still not running the team, he is always in the hallway givings orders.

 

Not always sir. Not at all. Some guys just go back to their office, some guys stay in the hall, and some guys dress up in a disguise and return.

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Anyone think because a manager get toss he is still not running the team, he is always in the hallway givings orders.

 

Not always sir. Not at all. Some guys just go back to their office, some guys stay in the hall, and some guys dress up in a disguise and return.

According to our TV announcers Fredi calls the shots whne he gets tossed.

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Anyone think because a manager get toss he is still not running the team, he is always in the hallway givings orders.

 

Not always sir. Not at all. Some guys just go back to their office, some guys stay in the hall, and some guys dress up in a disguise and return.

According to our TV announcers Fredi calls the shots whne he gets tossed.

When did they say that?

 

I know that yesterday they said exactly what I said (minus the Bobby Valentine reference).

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I like how the OP was just vague so that later on, he/she could say either "See, I said back on May 15th that we should fire him," [if we lose] or "I only started that thread to say that I expect people will point fingers..........but I always liked Freddi" [if we win].

 

:whistle

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I'm sorry, but the crappy product out on the field right now was put there by the front office. They're the ones who stuck us with no options and no flexibility in case guys like Maybin, Miller, Sanchez, etc. all played exactly like could have been predicted. We started the year without a realistic option for a 4th outfielder, with a slap hitting third basemen who can't hit or walk, and no starting pitching depth.

 

We've got a couple of guys who are underperforming, and another few that are injured. These things happen, and the front office should have foreseen it as well as a lot of us did and come up with appropriate fallback options. Instead, we shipped out whatever semblance of depth we had by trading Olsen and Willingham and not re-signing Gonzo. I realize that our payroll handicaps us somewhat, but there are guys out there who would have signed cheap deals to be here that we didn't pursue. We counted on every player performing at their best case scenario to even have a chance at competing. That's not the way you win.

 

I've said it before- we were a competitive team last year and didn't need to make wholesale changes to maintain that this year. We just needed to add capable starting pitching to last years squad.

 

When we ship out 30 homer hitting first basemen, starting pitchers, and Lfers for spare parts, I really have a hard time believing in this FO. They're the ones who let us down.

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it seems like we get at least one of these threads every year. This season isn't Fredi's fault. It's just the fact that we don't have a very balanced lineup at the moment with certain guys not producing as well as an inconsistant closer and starting pitching durability issues. Fredi has done a pretty good job this year, to fire him would be stupid, and would once again mean we would have to start over when it comes with dealing with a new manager. Basically it would be like wasting this and next season if we fired Fredi mid way through this season.

 

 

 

 

 

And just like we get these threads, we get a stupid comment like this defending him. The guy could never manage. This isn't just an offense or pitching or defense problem... IT'S ALL THREE!!! You want a reason for firing him, how the team doesn't believe in him anymore. But you're right, firing a manager in May doesn't make sense... like in 2003.

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it seems like we get at least one of these threads every year. This season isn't Fredi's fault. It's just the fact that we don't have a very balanced lineup at the moment with certain guys not producing as well as an inconsistant closer and starting pitching durability issues. Fredi has done a pretty good job this year, to fire him would be stupid, and would once again mean we would have to start over when it comes with dealing with a new manager. Basically it would be like wasting this and next season if we fired Fredi mid way through this season.

 

 

 

 

 

And just like we get these threads, we get a stupid comment like this defending him. The guy could never manage. This isn't just an offense or pitching or defense problem... IT'S ALL THREE!!! You want a reason for firing him, how the team doesn't believe in him anymore. But you're right, firing a manager in May doesn't make sense... like in 2003.

 

 

yes, because as we know we have the same talent this year that we had in 2003 :rolleyes:

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How is it Gonzalez's fault that a lot of players (Uggla, Ross, Nolasco, etc.) are performing far below their norms?

 

From my perspective, if this continues, the only people who should be penalized should be these players themselves. If they don't start improving, bench them.

 

The Marlins haven't been losing games because of bad managing. They've been losing because half of the lineup and half of the rotation can't hit/pitch.

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How is it Gonzalez's fault that a lot of players (Uggla, Ross, Nolasco, etc.) are performing far below their norms?

 

From my perspective, if this continues, the only people who should be penalized should be these players themselves. If they don't start improving, bench them.

 

The Marlins haven't been losing games because of bad managing. They've been losing because half of the lineup and half of the rotation can't hit/pitch.

 

 

Well on that note, if the players are not hitting, "Uggla, and others, bench them for a couple games like Boston did with David Ortiz. Maybin should have been demoted a 2weeks earlier then he was. I do blame Freddi's poor management style, he is not aggressive enough, and I do think the team would benefit from a management change!

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I'm sorry, but the crappy product out on the field right now was put there by the front office. They're the ones who stuck us with no options and no flexibility in case guys like Maybin, Miller, Sanchez, etc. all played exactly like could have been predicted. We started the year without a realistic option for a 4th outfielder, with a slap hitting third basemen who can't hit or walk, and no starting pitching depth.

 

We've got a couple of guys who are underperforming, and another few that are injured. These things happen, and the front office should have foreseen it as well as a lot of us did and come up with appropriate fallback options. Instead, we shipped out whatever semblance of depth we had by trading Olsen and Willingham and not re-signing Gonzo. I realize that our payroll handicaps us somewhat, but there are guys out there who would have signed cheap deals to be here that we didn't pursue. We counted on every player performing at their best case scenario to even have a chance at competing. That's not the way you win.

 

I've said it before- we were a competitive team last year and didn't need to make wholesale changes to maintain that this year. We just needed to add capable starting pitching to last years squad.

 

When we ship out 30 homer hitting first basemen, starting pitchers, and Lfers for spare parts, I really have a hard time believing in this FO. They're the ones who let us down.

 

 

I'm tired of people saying this.

 

That 1B is an AL player. He is the worst f***ing defensive 1B in baseball, and for all his slugging, he still sucked with the bat. That's what I call hitters who can't put up a .300 .OBP. You'll miss him a lot less when Dan Uggla and Cody Ross start being themselves.

 

Starting pitchers? Who? Scott Olsen? Seen his stats lately?

 

Out of those guys...the only one being missed a bit is Willingham...that is, till his back gives out, again.

 

Whatever.

 

We didn't get spare parts either.

 

We got a setup man who has been really good for us for Jacobs, in Nunez.

Bonifacio(ut), as much as I've made fun of him, has had his moments. I never really liked that trade, but considering things stay the same...it's not bad considering Bonifacio wasn't even the best prospect in that deal.

 

And for those who bitched so much about missing Rhodes and Nelson....it's really funny how you're not bitching anymore. Beinfest and company have done a well above average job picking players off the waiver wire and such.

 

This team isn't bad. Let Uggla, Ross, and Nolasco come around (I KNOW for a fact...if you're a real Marlins fan, you KNOW these 3 are nowhere near as bad as they have performed). It's 37 games. It's early. Let those 3 come around. Let the team, hopefully, get healthy, again with the rotation.

 

As far as Fredi Gonzalez, I'm just not liking how he keeps changing the lineup. John Baker was the perfect 2 hole hitter...still don't like that change. Hermida is hitting in a different spot everyday...normally at the bottom of the order, which sucks, considering he's been getting on base, at a pretty good pace this year. But as I've always said...a manager can only cost a team so many games.

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I'm tired of people saying this.

 

Yup. And a good summary of why.

 

the Phils took Scotty deep 3 times today in Washington for 5 runs, gave up 9 hits and 2 walks in 5 innings

 

Olsen's horrible line updated through Saturday's (5/16) loss:

 

W L ERA IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP

1 4 6.60 45 60 36 33 8 18 29 1.733

 

NO Marlin's pitcher who threw at least 45 innings in 2008 wound up with a WHIP above 1.64 (Miller.) The closest thing to Olsen's performance thusfar was Tucker's (rookie) less-than-stellar performance in 2008:

 

W L ERA IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP

2 3 8.27 37 46 34 34 8 23 28 1.865

 

Olsen also resembles Badenhop's (rookie) numbers in 2008:

 

W L ERA IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP

2 3 6.08 47.1 55 34 32 7 21 35 1.606

 

And, in many respects he's actually worse (so far) than Hendrickson's journeyman, temporary-stop-gap numbers in 2008:

 

W L ERA IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP

7 8 5.45 134 148 87 81 17 48 81 1.466

 

Now, anyone can have a bad year or a bad start, but so far (8 starts) Olsen most closely resembles a bunch of guys who were either rookies or a journeyman innings-eater who got paid between $400K and $1 million. At least Baltimore used their head and only paid Hendrickson $1.5 million for this year.

 

Olsen ain't worth $2.8 million. And Willingham and his back ain't worth $2.95 million. Particularly considering that paying either or both of them would have meant not being able to afford Cantu and/or Uggla within the constraints of the current payroll budget.

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I wasn't able to watch the game so I kinda followed the game thread towards the end... One thing made me question Fredi's decision making: Was there any reason why Fredi let Amezaga bat with the bases loaded over Gload? Again, I didnt see the game, I am just curious or maybe I missed something in the game thread...

 

Do we know it was even Fredi who made that decision? Remember, he was tossed.

 

Good point. I had overlooked that as well. It was probably Tosca's idea. But still kind of hard to condem it. Most likely a gut feeling. And when The Amazing either starts a game or comes into a game something changes on the team. He brings something that is uncalcuable (I have a hard time saying that word, definetly can't spell it) to the team's make-up. Just didn't work this time.

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Girardi not doing too good with nyy

 

 

 

NYY doesn't understand the meaning of team chemistry, when you constantly add little youth to a team and bring in new, overpaid guys constantly, you are going to get primadonas who feel they are the best, and it will cause team friction (aka A-Rod). Isn't easy to manage when you have so many big egos running the clubhouse.

 

And yet that's the job he wanted from the get-go. Part of a manager's job is to unite those personalities. It was no surprise at all that the Yankees missed the post season last year after they basically threw Torre out of the Time Zone. GI Joe is a do it my way or else type manager. And that type dosen't go well with players. Torre at least was able to mold a team into cohesion. He's done a fine job in LA so far.

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