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You don't move a player to the outfield who can field well enough to stay in the infield. You keep him in the minor leagues to develop. Coghlan would be exponentially more valuable as a 2B, and the 3-4 months he lost developing defensively at the position would not be worth risking, for an immediate patch job in LF. From all indication, the front office has little if any plans to move him back to 2B. I haven't read a single positive scouting report on his defense -- that's something you're going to need to provide a source for.

 

First of all, the scouting reports on Coghlan universally say he would more than likely develop into an average 2B. The only reason you haven't read that is because you really don't read. You have no idea what you are spewing. As for cites, it's basically impossible to dig up scouting reports 06-07 when they moved him to 2B, and especially now that all google searches just pick up ROY stuff, but here is an article before his breakout that is well informed and mentions completely average defense in the infield (http://marlinmaniac.com/2009/07/19/projecting-chris-coghlan/), solid in range (http://projectprospect.com/article/2009/03/15/florida-marlins-top-5), CBS (which to be fair, isn't great) said above average (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5918557/11165662), and arguably the best minor league writer not on BA/BP who knows way more than me, which means light years more than you, details it out as potentially above average (http://floridamarlinsminors.blogspot.com/2009/02/7-chris-coghlan.html). This opinion is agreed upon by BP and BA writers, I just do not have BA Handbooks lying around to directly quote about his defense.

 

Second, by all indications, the front office wanted to trade Dan Uggla and have camp competition between Coghlan and Bonifacio. And even if Bonifacio won, if he showed up like this year still sucking, you'd have seen Coghlan switch to 2B by June. Or by next year when they finally give up on EB. Really a non issue here.

 

Third, you know what the Marlins are into? Playing their top 8 bats in the field in whatever configuration. If that means Coghlan gets pushed to LF, the second least important defensive position on the field mind you, so be it to get his bat in the lineup because the team needs it. Your argument saying they put him out there as they view him as a LF is ridiculous. You don't move Uggla, an all star, to another position to make room for Coghlan, even if Uggla can barely field the position. This isn't a video game where you just plug guys in. You have to respect the veterans. Jesus.

 

And clearly, no outfielder has ever just randomly become a middle infielder before. How about Skip Schumaker? And he had even less experience at 2B than Coghlan does.

 

I'm starting to wonder if this is intentional just to annoy people, because you're really special if it's not.

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You don't move a player to the outfield who can field well enough to stay in the infield. You keep him in the minor leagues to develop. Coghlan would be exponentially more valuable as a 2B, and the 3-4 months he lost developing defensively at the position would not be worth risking, for an immediate patch job in LF. From all indication, the front office has little if any plans to move him back to 2B. I haven't read a single positive scouting report on his defense -- that's something you're going to need to provide a source for.

 

 

Yes, the experience of 3-4 months playing 2nd base in New Orleans > experience of 3-4 months in the majors.

 

Seriously? This team had two absolute black holes in the lineup for a month and a half. Coghlan filled one by playing LF. We needed him to get Maybin out of the lineup. You don't keep Maybin up hitting .190 so Coghlan can field 6 grounders a day in the PCL. Come on, man.

 

Also:

 

http://floridamarlinsminors.blogspot.com/2009/02/7-chris-coghlan.html

 

Chris made the move from the hot corner to second base a few seasons ago. The move was made possible because his arm was not quite good enough for 3b, nor was his pending power potential. Most believe he will be an above average defensive second baseman.

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I was hoping for a scouting report from a credible source that has actually seen him play while coming up through the system, or has real contacts in the game that have seen him play. Instead, you gave me a blogger who has never seen him play, a prospect analyst who uses statistics exclusively to formulate his analysis, and a community-member at CBS from a page that's nothing more than user generated content.

 

In the three scouting reports from 06-08 at baseball america (under their annual top 10 prospect rankings), and also including Kevin Goldstein's scouting reports under his "Future Shock" series at Baseball Prospectus, every single one of them questioned Coghlan's ability defensively. The common theme was that his arm and range were limited, he is rough defensively, he was prone to errors, and he's a work in progress at 2B.

 

Based on reviewing those reports, I realize that some of the language I used was probably too harsh. He was never referred to as a "complete butcher", and some scouts thought with more time/polish he could develop into an adequate 2B.

 

Either way the Marlins stuck him in LF last year, and have made no indication that he will be moved back to the infield based on early feedback from team officials/sources. Early news was that Bonifacio would be given every chance to be an everyday player at 2B if Uggla was traded. And even in a recently published article about Logan Morrison (yesterday), a contact close to the team confirmed the teams interest in keeping Coghlan in LF.

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They are keeping him in LF because Dan Uggla is still here. How do you not get this? Lot's of guys start their careers out at positions that they won't play forever, simply because there is a need.

 

Yes, Bonifacio will be given every chance to win a starting 2nd base job if Uggla is traded because our FO loves him. Note how nobody ever said "Will be handed a starting job because we have no other 2nd basemen." Who the f*** do you think he's going to compete with if not Coghlan? We have literally nobody else who can play 2B.

 

 

Actually, the perfect rebuttal to your nonsense:

 

You think your boy Bonifacio is a future 2nd baseman.

He did not start right away as a 2nd baseman with the team.

Ergo, he can never be a 2nd baseman.

 

I mean, come on.

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If Coghlan's not a major league 2B at this point in his career, he's definitely not going to be one 2-3 yrs from now.

 

 

 

That made no sense.

 

Of course it makes sense: the defensive age curve peaks much sooner. Players in their early twenties are at their peak athletically and thus have more range defensively than at any other point in their career.

 

If the team doesn't have faith in Coghlan's ability to play 2B in the major leagues right now, there's little chance there will be faith in his ability 2-3 yrs from now when he's likely less athletic at 26/27 yrs old, and has a few years of major league experience playing the outfield exclusively.

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They are keeping him in LF because Dan Uggla is still here. How do you not get this? Lot's of guys start their careers out at positions that they won't play forever, simply because there is a need.

 

Yes, Bonifacio will be given every chance to win a starting 2nd base job if Uggla is traded because our FO loves him. Note how nobody ever said "Will be handed a starting job because we have no other 2nd basemen." Who the f*** do you think he's going to compete with if not Coghlan? We have literally nobody else who can play 2B.

 

 

Actually, the perfect rebuttal to your nonsense:

 

You think your boy Bonifacio is a future 2nd baseman.

He did not start right away as a 2nd baseman with the team.

Ergo, he can never be a 2nd baseman.

 

I mean, come on.

 

 

No, a lot of players start out at positions that are more athletically demanding, then move to easier positions to field as they physically mature.

 

Bonifacio is a different case entirely. He has the body type/athleticism/defensive reputation to play 2B into his 30s if his bat is good enough to stick in the major leagues that long.

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No, a lot of people start out at positions that are more athletically demanding, then move to easier positions to field that require less range as they mature. A perfect recent example is Miguel Cabrera moving from 3B to 1B.

 

 

HOLY sh*t THIS IS SO AWESOME I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DID THAT!!!

 

Man, you're awesome.

 

The Marlins had Mike Lowell at 3rd base in 2003 and 2004. They also had a hot shot hitting prospect who was a questionable defensive player at his natural position, which coincidentally was already filled by an established veteran, the aforementioned Lowell.

 

The Marlins needed an OFer in 2003 because Todd Hollandsworth was injured. They called up third baseman Miguel Cabrera, who played almost all of his games in the OF until Mike Lowell got hurt. In 2004, he played 0 games at 3rd base, instead shifting between right and left field.

 

Miguel Cabrera subsequently never played another game at 3rd base in his life.

 

Oh wait, he actually played some 350+ games at third after 2004.

 

Yes, he did have to move to 1B eventually, but that's only because he got fat. Barring Chris Coghlan's wife putting him on a diet of arepas like Miggy, he'll probably remain reasonably athletic into his peak years. Chris is a very athletic ball player. No, not Bonifacio athletic, but he's certain to be no worse than Uggla.

 

You're so wrong on this. You and "Chris Coghlan can't play 2nd" is like Spike and "nobody should ever go to AAA". It's obviously not worth discussing with you because you've completely 100% made up your mind and will never be swayed no matter what anyone says or shows you, but since you keep bringing it up, people will keep feeding you. It's a shamefilled cycle.

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No, a lot of people start out at positions that are more athletically demanding, then move to easier positions to field that require less range as they mature. A perfect recent example is Miguel Cabrera moving from 3B to 1B.

 

 

HOLY sh*t THIS IS SO AWESOME I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DID THAT!!!

 

Man, you're awesome.

 

The Marlins had Mike Lowell at 3rd base in 2003 and 2004. They also had a hot shot hitting prospect who was a questionable defensive player at his natural position, which coincidentally was already filled by an established veteran, the aforementioned Lowell.

 

The Marlins needed an OFer in 2003 because Todd Hollandsworth was injured. They called up third baseman Miguel Cabrera, who played almost all of his games in the OF until Mike Lowell got hurt. In 2004, he played 0 games at 3rd base, instead shifting between right and left field.

 

Miguel Cabrera subsequently never played another game at 3rd base in his life.

 

Oh wait, he actually played some 350+ games at third after 2004.

 

Yes, he did have to move to 1B eventually, but that's only because he got fat. Barring Chris Coghlan's wife putting him on a diet of arepas like Miggy, he'll probably remain reasonably athletic into his peak years. Chris is a very athletic ball player. No, not Bonifacio athletic, but he's certain to be no worse than Uggla.

 

You're so wrong on this. You and "Chris Coghlan can't play 2nd" is like Spike and "nobody should ever go to AAA". It's obviously not worth discussing with you because you've completely 100% made up your mind and will never be swayed no matter what anyone says or shows you, but since you keep bringing it up, people will keep feeding you. It's a shamefilled cycle.

 

 

Fair enough, Miguel Cabrera was a poor example. It doesn't change the point, though.

 

Also, I'm not here to be stubborn -- show me some good analysis/studies/data or just good sound logic and theory and my perception can be changed. I'm a more flexible guy than you give me credit for. I read a lot about baseball everyday: I'm a big fan/student of the game and my opinion has changed more times than I can count -- on a number of controversial issues.

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I think you've been shown plenty of sound logic right here in this thread.

 

Chris Coghlan is athletic. He struggled in LF because he hadn't played even an inning there since he was 18. That is not indicative of his true abilities.

 

Show scouting reports that say he's as bad as you imply at 2nd, since you demand the same from others.

 

He was pretty much universally regarded as "not terrible" at worst from everything I read.

 

A "not terrible" defensive second baseman is, all other things being equal, more valuable than a good LF because offense is so much harder to come by at 2B

 

there's no logical reason to think he can't be at least what Uggla is in the field..

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I think you've been shown plenty of sound logic right here in this thread.

 

Chris Coghlan is athletic. He struggled in LF because he hadn't played even an inning there since he was 18. That is not indicative of his true abilities.

 

Show scouting reports that say he's as bad as you imply at 2nd, since you demand the same from others.

 

He was pretty much universally regarded as "not terrible" at worst from everything I read.

 

A "not terrible" defensive second baseman is, all other things being equal, more valuable than a good LF because offense is so much harder to come by at 2B

 

there's no logical reason to think he can't be at least what Uggla is in the field..

 

 

 

Uggla has actually been relatively good defensively at 2B. -2.9 runs on his career per 150 games. He more than makes up for it with his bat +15.

 

Anyway, here are the citations you requested:

 

Kevin Goldstein: http://www.baseballp...?articleid=8323 & http://www.baseballp...?articleid=7071

 

"Coghlan doesn't have any one tool that really lights up the scouting reports. He's still a bit rough around the edges defensively..."

 

"He still needs to improve his reads on balls coming off the bat at second base, as well as his positioning."

 

Mike Berardino: http://www.baseballa...009/267350.html & http://www.baseballa...007/263058.html

 

"Coghlan's hands aren't the softest, and he remains a work in progress around the bag at second."

 

"Despite his experience at the hot corner, his arm is average at best."

 

These are all "premium" articles btw, unless you hold subscriptions to both BA & BP you won't be able to view the source.

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You don't move a player to the outfield who can field well enough to stay in the infield. You keep him in the minor leagues to develop. Coghlan would be exponentially more valuable as a 2B, and the 3-4 months he lost developing defensively at the position would not be worth risking, for an immediate patch job in LF. From all indication, the front office has little if any plans to move him back to 2B. I haven't read a single positive scouting report on his defense -- that's something you're going to need to provide a source for.

 

 

Do you really believe Bonifacio is a better infielder than CC? That hasn't stopped the Marlin's from playing him! There was never any intent by the Marlin's organization to play CC in the outfield ever. We had a gap and CC was just a temporary fix however CC was such an amazing young player they could never send him down or bench him again. The plan was always for CC to replace Uggla when he was gone and Bonifacio was to be pur own Chone Figgans to move all over the infield and outfield but play everyday. CC would be an average defensive 2nd baseman he can definitely field the position. BTW CC was in Triple A I highly doubt he needed more defensive development as an infielder. He was an infielder in College and all throughout the minors

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You don't move a player to the outfield who can field well enough to stay in the infield. You keep him in the minor leagues to develop. Coghlan would be exponentially more valuable as a 2B, and the 3-4 months he lost developing defensively at the position would not be worth risking, for an immediate patch job in LF. From all indication, the front office has little if any plans to move him back to 2B. I haven't read a single positive scouting report on his defense -- that's something you're going to need to provide a source for.

 

 

Do you really believe Bonifacio is a better infielder than CC? That hasn't stopped the Marlin's from playing him! There was never any intent by the Marlin's organization to play CC in the outfield ever. We had a gap and CC was just a temporary fix however CC was such an amazing young player they could never send him down or bench him again. The plan was always for CC to replace Uggla when he was gone and Bonifacio was to be pur own Chone Figgans to move all over the infield and outfield but play everyday. CC would be an average defensive 2nd baseman he can definitely field the position. BTW CC was in Triple A I highly doubt he needed more defensive development as an infielder. He was an infielder in College and all throughout the minors

 

After reading the scouting reports on Coghlan from a number of resources (posted above), there really isn't strong commentary that suggests he can't play 2B. Seems that the feedback on his ability as a defensive 2B is mostly neutral. I was convinced the language about his viability there was a lot worse from scouts until I refreshed my memory putting together that piece above.

 

I think what's pretty telling, though, is the Marlins comments about keeping Coghlan in LF and wanting to give Bonifacio an everyday job at 2B. That means maybe the Marlins scouts/coaches are more down on Coghlan's defensive viability at 2B than the general consensus. Bonifacio does figure to have more defensive upside there, but Coghlan is much further along offensively at the moment. The entire situation is confusing...especially when you consider Dan Uggla is still here.

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You're so wrong on this. You and "Chris Coghlan can't play 2nd" is like Spike and "nobody should ever go to AAA".

 

Hey. I never said no one should go to AAA. AA is just a better level for development and has a lot more individual talent at positions compared to AAA which is made up of mostly of older players who were never quite good enough to make the show or former MLBs trying to get back. Theres a difference.

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