Admin Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 In the tiebreaker game for the 2007 NL WC, there was controversy that Matt Holliday might not have actually touched the plate when scoring the winning run. I haven't seen any video since that game, but I remember thinking at the time that he should have been called out. If you retroactively have the commissioner's office overrule this Joyce incident, you could open the door for the commissioner's office having to rule on things like that tiebreaker game. Leave this stuff with the umpires. I'm not opposed to more umpire accountability or additional tools for the umpires in light of recent technological advancements, but I don't want to see Selig ruling on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heat84 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Is there any chance it could be overturned? The evidence is blatent. Who cares about the precedent it would set. Its a PG FFS. There's another reason to overturn it. The pitcher is gonna go batshit insane if they don't. I know I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 In the tiebreaker game for the 2007 NL WC, there was controversy that Matt Holliday might not have actually touched the plate when scoring the winning run. I haven't seen any video since that game, but I remember thinking at the time that he should have been called out. If you retroactively have the commissioner's office overrule this Joyce incident, you could open the door for the commissioner's office having to rule on things like that tiebreaker game. Leave this stuff with the umpires. I'm not opposed to more umpire accountability or additional tools for the umpires in light of recent technological advancements, but I don't want to see Selig ruling on these things. Stop being so rational, jerk You're right, but it obviously sucks bigtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 :lol I wasn't so rational a couple of hours ago. My blood was boiling! I don't know how many of you saw this happen live (I did!), but I think that makes it so much worse. Watching the replay doesn't do the moment justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Ramos Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 ] You're absolutely correct about St Louis... then again, they had 9 innings in game 7 to try and overcome the bad call. Galarraga's perfection was taken from him and he had ZERO opportunity to overcome it, period. Its not like Joyce can say, "hey I blew that call but if you get the next guy you get the perfect game." Joyce stole the feat from him and thats it, and thats not right. And i understand and appreciate how MLB respects umpire's decisions... but this is just beyond that, when everyone knows the call was wrong, I dont get how MLB can sit back, cross their arms and somehow support that call. It's not that they support the call. They will show support for Joyce because they have to, otherwise he would feel isolated. If the MLB suddenly stepped in, then would you want them to step in every time a bad call was made? You can't just say that this was a special exception. Part of the game of baseball is human error. It disturbs me that people think this way. No it's not part of the game (to the extent where it wasn't thought out that way), they just had absolutely no choice in the matter. However, now they do, and they can make the right accurate calls. Why do you think they keep adding umpires anyway? Seriously, this is unacceptable this day in age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Even if he thought it was bang-bang, so long as Galarraga's foot is on the bag, he should've been called out. I mean, seriously, if you're going to be wrong on a bang-bang call, at least be wrong the right way. He's actually regarded as a good umpire, but he will forever be remembered for this horrible call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 :lol I wasn't so rational a couple of hours ago. My blood was boiling! I don't know how many of you saw this happen live (I did!), but I think that makes it so much worse. Watching the replay doesn't do the moment justice. I flipped it on with one out. I was a little nervous because the ball was hit [somewhat] into no man's land. But yeah, watching live was a whole different ballgame. When Joyce's arms outstretched vertically, I was temporarily suspended; I had no idea what to think. It was a pretty stunning blow. Maybe this sounds melodramatic, but I think those who watched live may very well agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Ramos Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 LMAO, Check out his Wikipedia page. Controversial Call On June 2, 2010, Joyce made a controversial call at first base, ruling baserunner Jason Donald of the Cleveland Indians safe. Had the call gone the other way, pitcher Armando Galarraga of the Detroit Tigers would have completed a perfect game, having retired the previous 26 Indians batters without allowing a single baserunner. Replays show[1] that the call was incorrect, and that Donald had in fact been out at first.[2] Tigers' color commentators said that "The Tigers' fans have been cheated out of the greatest pitching experience in Tiger history."[3] Joyce spoke with the media following the game and admitted he made a mistake: "I just cost the kid a perfect game. I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw until I saw the replay. It was the biggest call of my career."[4] Joyce apologized to Galarraga following the game after he saw the replay.[5] A perfect game by Galarraga would have set a Major League record of three perfect games in twenty-three days. Wow that was fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heat84 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 ] You're absolutely correct about St Louis... then again, they had 9 innings in game 7 to try and overcome the bad call. Galarraga's perfection was taken from him and he had ZERO opportunity to overcome it, period. Its not like Joyce can say, "hey I blew that call but if you get the next guy you get the perfect game." Joyce stole the feat from him and thats it, and thats not right. And i understand and appreciate how MLB respects umpire's decisions... but this is just beyond that, when everyone knows the call was wrong, I dont get how MLB can sit back, cross their arms and somehow support that call. It's not that they support the call. They will show support for Joyce because they have to, otherwise he would feel isolated. If the MLB suddenly stepped in, then would you want them to step in every time a bad call was made? You can't just say that this was a special exception. Part of the game of baseball is human error. It disturbs me that people think this way. No it's not part of the game (to the extent where it wasn't thought out that way), they just had absolutely no choice in the matter. However, now they do, and they can make the right accurate calls. Why do you think they keep adding umpires anyway? Seriously, this is unacceptable this day in age. Partof the game IS human error. But part of the game should also be correcting human error, purists be damned. The BBTN guys said that this probably brought the recent umpiring issues to a head and instant replay is coming. Yay! Please don't go to the slippery slope argument. It'll never get that ridiculous. How many controversial calls are there per game? 3 or 4 at the most? Stopping the game for a couple minutes 3 or 4 times a game(at the most) to check the replay won't kill anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunMarlin Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Jim Joyce needs to be disciplined for his actions. On such a close play for a historic feat such as a perfect game you call the runner out! The funny part to me is the the runner even knew he was out! He was jumping up and down in shock that he was called safe and probably felt bad as he is part of a big screwup in MLB History. Most telling part to me...his hands went straight to his head in disbelief when the ump said safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins WorldSeriesDestiny Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 :lol I wasn't so rational a couple of hours ago. My blood was boiling! I don't know how many of you saw this happen live (I did!), but I think that makes it so much worse. Watching the replay doesn't do the moment justice. I flipped it on with one out. I was a little nervous because the ball was hit [somewhat] into no man's land. But yeah, watching live was a whole different ballgame. When Joyce's arms outstretched vertically, I was temporarily suspended; I had no idea what to think. It was a pretty stunning blow. Maybe this sounds melodramatic, but I think those who watched live may very well agree. I agree completely. I also had the displeasure of watching it live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 :lol I wasn't so rational a couple of hours ago. My blood was boiling! I don't know how many of you saw this happen live (I did!), but I think that makes it so much worse. Watching the replay doesn't do the moment justice. I saw it live and was really pissed off. I think you're right that seeing it live makes it much worse. I woke up still feeling horrible for the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 They need to put more technology into baseball. I want to see bases being able to light up green or red to tell us if its an out or not. RFID chips in the baseballs, gloves, shoes, gloves, and bases. When the ball hits the glove before the runners RFID hits the base, then the base lights up red. Other way around, lights up green. If the lights are too much for u guys, then have it just tell the umps in an earpiece out or safe. And they can just relay the call. There really shouldnt be any margin for error. Its 2010 FFS. I'd say that's impossible, or at the very least, far beyond our current technology. I'm not even convinced that Fox Trax is that accurate. Furthermore, I don't understand why we need an automated umpiring system making the calls. That's pretty superfluous in the context of the current problem. I would suggest something like simply having a fiftth umpire in a both looking at video monitors and relaying what he sees. Since virtually all of the most egregious blown calls can be spotted rather quickly on a video instant replay, I don't see why anything more than that would be necessary. However, I think balls and strikes should be exempt from replays (at least for the time being). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleHaze Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 :lol I wasn't so rational a couple of hours ago. My blood was boiling! I don't know how many of you saw this happen live (I did!), but I think that makes it so much worse. Watching the replay doesn't do the moment justice. I saw it live and was really pissed off. I think you're right that seeing it live makes it much worse. I woke up still feeling horrible for the guy. I saw it live too and got up off the couch cussing at my TV. It was stunning. Especially after Jackson's sensational catch for the first out in the ninth. I was fired up for a couple of hours after it happened. No apology -- as nice as it was of Joyce -- changes the horrendous call he made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbies21 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I feel terrible for Jim Joyce. He has been a really good ump for 20 years now, and this will be his legacy. Every single ump in the bigs makes a bad call every now again again, he wasn't just going to call him out even if it was close, he has more respect for the game and the feat to do that. He thought he was safe on a judgement call, he wasn't. Joyce feels terrible for it, and I feel terrible for him. Joyce wasn't trying to be a dick or anything, he was trying to make the correct call each time. He missed this one, its unfortunate, but I will tell you Joyce feels MUCH worse than Gallaraga does this morning. Please, MLB, no suspension. The man has already had his punishment, this may haunt him for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Based upon traditional umpire rotation, Joyce is supposed to be the home plate umpire for this afternoon's (1:05 PM) Cleveland/Detroit game. It will be interesting to see if he is on the field today. Unless they have an umpire on reserve (or had one flown in), they might have only a three person crew. Part of me thinks Joyce will be out there today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stanton Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 I really hope that they overturn the call. That was an absolute travesty that made me actually ponder stop watching baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Ramos Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Based upon traditional umpire rotation, Joyce is supposed to be the home plate umpire for this afternoon's (1:05 PM) Cleveland/Detroit game. It will be interesting to see if he is on the field today. Unless they have an umpire on reserve (or had one flown in), they might have only a three person crew. Part of me thinks Joyce will be out there today. Hmm... It's things like these that gets professionals killed though- only takes 1 wacko. It's a sad reality. I don't think it'll be wise for MLB to keep him in DETROIT from all places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dim Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Now that I've had the night to sleep on it, I honestly feel that if they can, and I think they'll think about it and do nothing, just give the kid a perfect game. I'm not angry at Jim Joyce, you now feel a bit bad for him. He's going to get hell from all of Detroit, and he simply screwed up a call as many people do, he just happened to do it in the middle of one of the most crucial moments in a baseball game ever. I go back on what I said about a suspension being needed. He owned up to his mistake, he's taken more hell than any man should the last night. He should be allowed back. However, he shouldn't be umpiring home plate today in Detroit. Simply for his own safety and the well being of Jim Joyce, he should simply lay low until the series is over and umpire games that do not involve the Tigers for a while. It would be the smart thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 MLB is considering overturning the call: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5246454 I hope they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 After talking it out with friends today I'm going to change my opinion. I hope Selig reverses it. It really affects nothing as far as wins and losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 SportsCenter just reported Selig said he will NOT change the call. No link yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beinfest Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 The call should not be replaced... it's said and done. Although I think the MLB should go ahead and look into making something such as the "Armando Galarraga" rule. On any play that can be the deciding play of the game, it should be available under video review. Any ground ball, walk, sliding tag, bounce/catch, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 bah why would anyone have expected Selig to do something the fans would actually, you know, be IN FAVOR of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piazza31 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 The Tigers should have played the last out under protest. Then the Commish has no other option then to address it. overturned call? Game over, same result- 3-0 win. Don't over turn it. Game over, same result 3-0 win. No harm, no foul. Just precedent that can be corrected with expanded replay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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