It began when word got to Managing Director Rich Negrin that some city workers and residents were offended by the giant "Christmas Village" sign erected on Dilworth Plaza's northwest corner.

 

After all, there are a few Jewish and Muslim vendors among the nearly 50 wooden booths that make up Philadelphia's version of the traditional German Christmas village, which officially opened here Thursday.

 

There was also a story that reached Negrin about a little Jewish girl walking with her father who asked, according to Negrin: "Dad, don't we get a village?"

 

The upshot was the private organizer, Thomas Bauer, agreed with Negrin during the day on Tuesday to remove the word Christmas and replace it with Holiday.

 

But then Tuesday night, Bauer issued a statement that said the sign would be completely removed. The event will continue to be called "Christmas Village in Philadelphia."

 

"People have to go to public buildings. They shouldn't feel offended," Bauer, president of German American Marketing Inc., said in the statement Tuesday night. "We want to stress that the name was not intended to upset anyone."

 

Negrin confirmed Tuesday night that he had been told the sign would be taken down rather than have the site named "Holiday Village."

 

But getting rid of the word Christmas left Negrin with more holiday woes Tuesday as new complaints reached the mayor's office and stories about the Christmas Village controversy appeared on the Drudge Report, a website that aggregates news items from around the country.

 

"This is not about taking Christmas out of the holiday. It's about being more inclusive," Negrin told reporters outside the mayor's office Tuesday afternoon, before the second change. "I expected some complaints. Sometimes you have to make tough choices."

 

He added that the sign's first change was not a move in the name of political correctness, but rather one of "common sense."

 

Some vendors were disheartened to hear about the original change to Holiday Village and argued that the name now fails to reflect the event's European origins and heritage.

 

"This is a Christmas village," linens vendor Jack Boyd said as he pointed to the word Christmas on a brochure from Augsburg, Germany, that was on the counter of an adjacent candle vendor. "That's what they call it over there. Last year, nobody had a problem here."

 

Other vendors and shoppers, however, argued that the first change to Holiday reflected the religious and ethnic diversity of the city. "They needed to tweak the name a little bit, something more generic and open nowadays," shopper Phyllis Grove said.

 

"This is an international assembly point," said Sheikha Maryam Kabeer Faye, a Sufi Muslim vendor. "It's like a little United Nations here. Let's truly make it a city of brotherly and sisterly love that transcends religious distinctions."

 

This is the third year for Christmas Village, which is presented by a company named German American Marketing. Partners include The Inquirer, the Philadelphia Daily News, and Philly.com.

 

Open through Dec. 24, the village is modeled on German farmers markets, which date to the 15th century and, in the days leading up to the holiday, sell Christmas-specific toys, ornaments, and foods. The most famous is the Christkindlmarket in Nuremberg.

 

In another matter, Negrin confirmed that a decision had been made to move a manger to JFK Plaza from in front of the Municipal Services Building, where it was displayed last year. But he said that change stems from a public-safety concern, not a religious one, related to the erection of free-standing objects on the plaza of the building.

 

Negrin also said the lighting of the City Hall "holiday tree" - as it is called in a news release from the mayor's office - will still occur. The tree is on the west side of Dilworth Plaza in the middle of the village.

 

It will be lighted Thursday afternoon instead of Wednesday because of anticipated rain.

 

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20101201__Christmas_Village__but_without_the_sign.html

 

I never want to hear again that there isn't a "War on Christmas".

There isn't a War on Christmas

Who cares? This was a private actor making a decision he was fully entitled to. No one bullied him - he responded to public opinion as he saw fit. The event even kept its name.

 

I'm not going to cry a river that the differently-religious crowd in this city [seemingly] respectfully expressed their opinion in a way that didn't benefit the traditional majority, and most entitled religious group, in this country - Christians.

So your logic is this, to keep from offending the 1% of the population that finds the word Christmas offensive, take down the word Christmas and offend the 80% that celebrate the holiday. Am I right? If I am, terrible logic. If I'm wrong, do explain better.

 

I called up my mother and told her about this this morning and shesaid she remembers when she used to sale retail that she would wish every person "Merry Christmas" and every now and then she'd get a Jewish person that would respond with "Happy Hanukkah". There was no harm or foul, The person of Jewish faith was not offended. This is political correctness, grow a freaking spin if a simple word like the name of a joyous holiday offends you.

Dude seriously, with all the sh*t going on in the world today, this is what you have a gripe with?

 

I prefer the term "Happy Holidays" as it include EVERYONE. Christians, jews, muslims, athesists. Everyone can all be happy and miserable in unison.

We must be politically correct. We wouldn't want to offend anyone!

I prefer the term "Happy Holidays" as it include EVERYONE. Christians, jews, muslims, athesists. Everyone can all be happy and miserable in unison.

 

 

You seem to be misunderstanding something, I have no problem with the other Holidays around this time of the Year, but for God's sakes, call them what they are, quit being so damn lazy

What about the fact some rename their tree's from Christmas trees to Holiday tree in the name of not offending anyone. That's BS, no other holiday in this time of year uses a tree, call it what it is a Christmas tree. Put that in your "include everyone" pipe and smoke it.

I prefer the term "Happy Holidays" as it include EVERYONE. Christians, jews, muslims, athesists. Everyone can all be happy and miserable in unison.

 

 

You seem to be misunderstanding something, I have no problem with the other Holidays around this time of the Year, but for God's sakes, call them what they are, quit being so damn lazy

 

No, I didn't misunderstand you. You have a problem with the village or whatever changing the name from "Christmas" to "Holidays". I honestly don't think it's that big a deal. Someone had a problem with it, and they complained and had it changed. So what. It's not a "war in christmas".

I get it for you it's "F*** TRADITION!" amirite?

I get it for you it's "F*** TRADITION!" amirite?

 

 

No, I am for mending tradition to adapt for modern times. It was "tradition" a long time ago to sacrifice virgins in hopes of a good harvest.

after a rough day, this empty complaining made me feel alot better...thanks fellow board members

I get it for you it's "F*** TRADITION!" amirite?

 

 

No, I am for mending tradition to adapt for modern times. It was "tradition" a long time ago to sacrifice virgins in hopes of a good harvest.

 

Funny thing about Holiday traditions, they hardly change. The holiday's haven't changed, just people have gotten more sensitive.

I get it for you it's "F*** TRADITION!" amirite?

 

 

No, I am for mending tradition to adapt for modern times. It was "tradition" a long time ago to sacrifice virgins in hopes of a good harvest.

 

Funny thing about Holiday traditions, they hardly change. The holiday's haven't changed, just people have gotten more sensitive.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#History

 

Oh really?

I heard next year Obama will be forbidding giant inflatable christmas santas in our front yards.

I heard next year Obama will be forbidding giant inflatable christmas santas in our front yards.

 

 

That's after they install body scanners in our front doors. Can't be too safe.

I heard next year Obama will be forbidding giant inflatable christmas santas in our front yards.

 

i heard that next year...our president doesnt care what you do during the holidays

I heard next year Obama will be forbidding giant inflatable christmas santas in our front yards.

 

i heard that next year...our president doesnt care what you do during the holidays

 

I heard that next year you'll come up with a more creative comeback...but I doubt it.

Again, no one forced this. Not the government. Not bullying individuals. Not rude atheists intending to condemn any and all religious beliefs.

 

A private businessman made a private decision to best portray his business within the community where it lies.

 

This is not a war on Christmas. This isn't a war on religion. This isn't a war on all things that deviate from perfect political correctness, perfect neutrality, and the like.

 

Would this sign offend me personally? No.

Do I think the government has any place in forcing people to make such changes to private businesses and property? HELL NO.

Do I think this is a big deal? Also, no.

 

This guy did what was in his best interest. In a different situation, his best interest might have been to change a Happy Holidays sign to a Merry Christmas sign. That would be just as acceptable, and neither situation deserves complaint.

 

And as an aside, the last people who get to cry foul in the U.S. are Christians. For realz.

Again, no one forced this. Not the government. Not bullying individuals. Not rude atheists intending to condemn any and all religious beliefs.

 

A private businessman made a private decision to best portray his business within the community where it lies.

 

This is not a war on Christmas. This isn't a war on religion. This isn't a war on all things that deviate from perfect political correctness, perfect neutrality, and the like.

 

Would this sign offend me personally? No.

Do I think the government has any place in forcing people to make such changes to private businesses and property? HELL NO.

Do I think this is a big deal? Also, no.

 

This guy did what was in his best interest. In a different situation, his best interest might have been to change a Happy Holidays sign to a Merry Christmas sign. That would be just as acceptable, and neither situation deserves complaint.

 

And as an aside, the last people who get to cry foul in the U.S. are Christians. For realz.

 

/discussion

summed it up perfectly

Again, no one forced this. Not the government. Not bullying individuals. Not rude atheists intending to condemn any and all religious beliefs.

 

A private businessman made a private decision to best portray his business within the community where it lies.

 

This is not a war on Christmas. This isn't a war on religion. This isn't a war on all things that deviate from perfect political correctness, perfect neutrality, and the like.

 

Would this sign offend me personally? No.

Do I think the government has any place in forcing people to make such changes to private businesses and property? HELL NO.

Do I think this is a big deal? Also, no.

 

This guy did what was in his best interest. In a different situation, his best interest might have been to change a Happy Holidays sign to a Merry Christmas sign. That would be just as acceptable, and neither situation deserves complaint.

 

And as an aside, the last people who get to cry foul in the U.S. are Christians. For realz.

 

/discussion

summed it up perfectly

 

This. Couldn't put it better myself.

Again, no one forced this. Not the government. Not bullying individuals. Not rude atheists intending to condemn any and all religious beliefs.

 

A private businessman made a private decision to best portray his business within the community where it lies.

 

This is not a war on Christmas. This isn't a war on religion. This isn't a war on all things that deviate from perfect political correctness, perfect neutrality, and the like.

 

Would this sign offend me personally? No.

Do I think the government has any place in forcing people to make such changes to private businesses and property? HELL NO.

Do I think this is a big deal? Also, no.

 

This guy did what was in his best interest. In a different situation, his best interest might have been to change a Happy Holidays sign to a Merry Christmas sign. That would be just as acceptable, and neither situation deserves complaint.

 

And as an aside, the last people who get to cry foul in the U.S. are Christians. For realz.

 

I'm not really on either side of this, but if you read the article it says that the decision was motivated by people complaining, so I don't think your first sentence is quite accurate. You are right in saying that the government had no hand in this, but you make it sound like there were no external factors contributing to the decision. That simply isn't true.

 

Furthermore, in response to the other posters here saying that Christians are wasting time over a frivolous non-issue, I'm curious as to why you are giving a free pass to the people who thought a "Christmas Village" sign (in addition to the numerous similar incidents over the years) was a big enough of a deal to warrant complaining. These people are just as frivolous I would argue, so if you are going to accuse people of diverting attention away from real issues, you should also be calling out the people in the ever growing "I'm offended" movement in this country.

 

I used the word "bullying" deliberately. Here are the "anti" quotes:

- There was also a story that reached Negrin about a little Jewish girl walking with her father who asked, according to Negrin: "Dad, don't we get a village?"

- "They needed to tweak the name a little bit, something more generic and open nowadays," shopper Phyllis Grove said.

- "This is an international assembly point," said Sheikha Maryam Kabeer Faye, a Sufi Muslim vendor. "It's like a little United Nations here. Let's truly make it a city of brotherly and sisterly love that transcends religious distinctions."

 

These are rather innocuous comments. You could call them complaints, but they are certainly not bullying, and the article doesn't imply that there was any "emotional" force. I didn't say they weren't complaints, just that the changes weren't forced, and the business owner wasn't bullied. In fact, this was essentially caused by market forces.

 

I'm not really clear on what your 2nd paragraph is saying or to whom it's referring, i.e. me, those in my "camp" on this issue, etc.? I personally have little to no problem with nearly anything that goes on in private businesses, on private property, etc.

As soon as a I read the title, I knew it would be you who started it.

 

There's no war on Christmas. There might be a war on non-Christian holidays.

You have no idea if those are the extent of the complaints. The article provides no indication that they are, so I'm not challenging the validity of the piece but reading critically. Remember that the author is setting a tone here. Yes, they sound innocuous but you can't assume that the guy did not receive more inflammatory feedback. And no, I also can't say for sure that people went off the hook here because the article doesn't state that, either, but we have to remember that the author is providing his own account.

 

The fact is that the businessman in the very beginning appeared to have no issue with having this Christian centered, which means that some people "got to him." I'm skeptical that a little Jewish girl saying "where's our village" is the whole or a large part of the motivation. This is also because there is a common trend in this country where people do indeed go off of the hook when it comes to holiday representation. Also note that the article says that there was "also" the story of the Jewish girl, implying that there were other events preceding it. At the very least, this guy was coerced by "offended" people into changing his sign. Whether or not you call this "bullying" is open to interpretation, but to me it sounds like he was.

 

And I don't have a problem whatsoever with a businessman making this decision. That's the essence of the market and is part of the reason why I don't think we will fall back into the pre-CRA South if we enforced greater respect toward property rights. However, I'm simply acknowledging that there is a rather growing demographic in this country that bullies over issues like this (the I'm Offended movement). That is more or less the point of my second paragraph (directed toward a couple of people in this thread getting on RaysFan for "griping" about this issue).

 

 

It's certainly true that we don't know the full extent; however, I read the author as viewing this outcome negatively, mainly based on the below:

"It began when word got to Managing Director Rich Negrin that some city workers and residents were offended by the giant "Christmas Village" sign erected on Dilworth Plaza's northwest corner.

 

After all, there are a few Jewish and Muslim vendors among the nearly 50 wooden booths that make up Philadelphia's version of the traditional German Christmas village, which officially opened here Thursday."

 

The bolded, in my opinion, has a bit of a sarcastic, eye-roll type of tone to it. After that, I expected the article to bash the "I'm Offended" group of people. When these mostly innocuous quotes were all that were provided, I was surprised, but it also leans me toward thinking that there wasn't much worse to be said. It's certainly possibly that I'm misreading the author's tone; and even if I'm not, it's possible he had other reasons for providing [only] those quotes, i.e. neutrality, especially if he's self-aware of his bias but trying to stick to journalism over commentary here. I think the 1st explanation is the most likely.

 

Re: griping. It's tough for me to stomach griping about this issue, but on the other hand disapproving of others griping about DADT, for example. There's a much fiercer war on homosexuality, i.e., than there is on Christmas, or religion in general, in the United States.

 

And the term "tradition" (this isn't direct at you, Peng), is just a crutch the majority leans on to maintain the status quo, which they created and is, of course, beneficial to them. It's not a legitimate argument in this context.

And the term "tradition" (this isn't direct at you, Peng), is just a crutch the majority leans on to maintain the status quo, which they created and is, of course, beneficial to them. It's not a legitimate argument in this context.

 

 

But in this case, what is so wrong with the status quo? The majority often times leans on tradition to maintain the status quo, but the minority has been attempting to change the status quo just for the sake of change, and that's just as wrong.

 

I personally just laugh at anyone who gets offended by people saying Merry Christmas over Happy Holidays. I don't even consider Christmas a religious holiday. Given the consumerist nature of the 'holiday,' it'd probably be beneficial if it was advertised and sponsored more than it is now. It's these people that are totally insecure about everything they are, that they take offense of everything.