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The Hopper and Brian Sanches Battling For The Last Bullpen Spot?


Overhed

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Who would be the long guy if Badenhop didnt make it?

 

Hensley was cast in the setup and closer's role last year, but he makes the most sense to me to be a 1+ inning reliever in the 6th and 7th to get the game to Webb and Nunez, who I suspect will be the 8-9 (along with Choate waxing random lefties) sooner rather than later. Sanches has also shown he can go 2, and Mujica did it a fair amount with San Diego last year. I don't think this is an issue. The Marlins bullpen is very deep, and the rotation should be a bit more consistent this year so we don't have to deal with 29 starts from Nate Rob, Andrew Miller, Jorge Sosa, and Sean West (41 starts including Sanabia, as he was solid but didn't go very deep often) which absolutely kills your bullpen.

 

Regardless, it'll work itself out through who is throwing the best. I don't dislike Badenhop, I just think we have 7 guys with more upside. I love him as the injury replacement.

 

I also wouldn't put it past the team to carry a 4 man bench/8 man bullpen for a little bit and just using Bonifacio as an outfielder a bit more than he probably should until the pen gets settled.

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Lou, why do you like Webb so much, if he struggles against lefties? He doesn't have tremendous K or BB numbers in the majors, either. His WHIP isn't anything special, and he had an abnormally low HR rate last year. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering where's the upside that isn't necessarily revealed in his MLB numbers.

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Lou, why do you like Webb so much, if he struggles against lefties? He doesn't have tremendous K or BB numbers in the majors, either. His WHIP isn't anything special, and he had an abnormally low HR rate last year. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just wondering where's the upside that isn't necessarily revealed in his MLB numbers.

 

He is a groundball machine that throws really hard and absolutely dominates right handers. His slider is nasty and he projects to get better with his build. He's a few more Ks and getting a few more lefties out into becoming a really above average reliever, if not dominant. I think both happen as his HR rates (hasn't given one up verse a right hander yet) are a result of the groundballs, he is getting better for the whiffs and whip, and as soon as he figures out an out pitch, he'll lower his lefty rates a bit (working on a changeup last I read). There is a reason he was the bigger piece in the Maybin trade despite Mujica producing a significantly better whip last year. Webb is legit. I take him if I can have any right hander out of our pen now, and especially long term.

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When the Marlins got Webb, I assumed that he was more or less guaranteed a bullpen role. His WHIP has been a little high, but he earned some job security last season.

 

Sanches earned some job security too. I think that Badenhop is the odd man out. He's a decent reliever, but reached a plateau. You don't keep him on the roster at the expense of Webb.

 

However, if it were up to me, Leo Nunez would be the one to go. He's probably the arm the team would miss the least (considering things like specialization and actual talent) and yet he makes the most money. I had a good laugh a couple of weeks ago when that dude was saying that the Marlins bullpen couldn't succeed without Nunez.

 

My guess is that there still isn't a lot of confidence in Hensley repeating his success.

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I still think, when all is said and done, that the primary setup guy will be Mike Dunn. I know he walks a lot of guys, but his stuff is superior in comparison to everyone else in the pen. There are certain relievers who can get away with a high walk total because their stuff is nearly untouchable, and I think Dunn is one of those guys.

 

If Badenhop doesn't make the team, I think the long reliever becomes Brian Sanches. Or Edward Mujica for that matter. Until Webb improves against lefties, I don't see him as a primary setup guy. I see Webb filling a Peter Moylan type role for us this year.

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I'm not saying it will last, but with Beinfest's infatuation with our BP I think we'll see the competition dive into the season until someone starts to falter/we really actually need the bench players.

 

And that's mainly because I think Dominguez will do fine at 3rd, filling in any necessity for Dobbs to be there or anything like that.

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I'm not saying it will last, but with Beinfest's infatuation with our BP I think we'll see the competition dive into the season until someone starts to falter/we really actually need the bench players.

 

And that's mainly because I think Dominguez will do fine at 3rd, filling in any necessity for Dobbs to be there or anything like that.

 

 

 

The thing is, a short bench in the National League is not a good idea. Regardless of what point in the season it is, it just doesn't make sense. To add even further to that, John Baker is limited to only being able to play 1B...and that's a question mark, as well. If the Marlins go with 8 relievers from the get-go, it creates a bench with very little depth. There's really no reason to do that.

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I'm not saying it will last, but with Beinfest's infatuation with our BP I think we'll see the competition dive into the season until someone starts to falter/we really actually need the bench players.

 

And that's mainly because I think Dominguez will do fine at 3rd, filling in any necessity for Dobbs to be there or anything like that.

 

 

 

The thing is, a short bench in the National League is not a good idea. Regardless of what point in the season it is, it just doesn't make sense. To add even further to that, John Baker is limited to only being able to play 1B...and that's a question mark, as well. If the Marlins go with 8 relievers from the get-go, it creates a bench with very little depth. There's really no reason to do that.

 

Is John Baker even going to be there to open the season?

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I'm not saying it will last, but with Beinfest's infatuation with our BP I think we'll see the competition dive into the season until someone starts to falter/we really actually need the bench players.

 

And that's mainly because I think Dominguez will do fine at 3rd, filling in any necessity for Dobbs to be there or anything like that.

 

 

 

The thing is, a short bench in the National League is not a good idea. Regardless of what point in the season it is, it just doesn't make sense. To add even further to that, John Baker is limited to only being able to play 1B...and that's a question mark, as well. If the Marlins go with 8 relievers from the get-go, it creates a bench with very little depth. There's really no reason to do that.

 

Is John Baker even going to be there to open the season?

Still looks like it, but who knows how that goes through ST.

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It would be relievers and 4 starters, IMO, as far as the schedule reasonably allows.

 

This is correct. Volstad won't be with the team for 7-10 days or whenever they need a 5th starter. They are opening with 8 relievers like they always do. It's who that gets sent down is the question. It would be easier to try and sneak Sanches through a DFA second week of the year, but I'd imagine someone would claim him fairly quickly.

 

And agree that Nunez should be the one that goes. Save that money and turn him into a 3B. I still think the Rangers eat a ton of Young's salary at some point.

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It would be relievers and 4 starters, IMO, as far as the schedule reasonably allows.

 

This is correct. Volstad won't be with the team for 7-10 days or whenever they need a 5th starter. They are opening with 8 relievers like they always do. It's who that gets sent down is the question. It would be easier to try and sneak Sanches through a DFA second week of the year, but I'd imagine someone would claim him fairly quickly.

 

And agree that Nunez should be the one that goes. Save that money and turn him into a 3B. I still think the Rangers eat a ton of Young's salary at some point.

He has no options?

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It would be relievers and 4 starters, IMO, as far as the schedule reasonably allows.

 

This is correct. Volstad won't be with the team for 7-10 days or whenever they need a 5th starter. They are opening with 8 relievers like they always do. It's who that gets sent down is the question. It would be easier to try and sneak Sanches through a DFA second week of the year, but I'd imagine someone would claim him fairly quickly.

 

And agree that Nunez should be the one that goes. Save that money and turn him into a 3B. I still think the Rangers eat a ton of Young's salary at some point.

He has no options?

 

Seven players on the Marlins’ 40-man roster are out of options, meaning they would have to clear waivers before the club could send them to the minors. The list: catcher John Buck, infielders Emilio Bonifacio and Wes Helms, right-handers Edward Mujica, Leo Nunez and Brian Sanches, and lefty Randy Choate.

 

 

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_baseball_marlins/2011/02/florida-marlins-seven-players-out-of-minor-league-options.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+marlinsblog+(Florida+Marlins+|+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs)

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It would be relievers and 4 starters, IMO, as far as the schedule reasonably allows.

 

This is correct. Volstad won't be with the team for 7-10 days or whenever they need a 5th starter. They are opening with 8 relievers like they always do. It's who that gets sent down is the question. It would be easier to try and sneak Sanches through a DFA second week of the year, but I'd imagine someone would claim him fairly quickly.

 

And agree that Nunez should be the one that goes. Save that money and turn him into a 3B. I still think the Rangers eat a ton of Young's salary at some point.

He has no options?

 

Seven players on the Marlins’ 40-man roster are out of options, meaning they would have to clear waivers before the club could send them to the minors. The list: catcher John Buck, infielders Emilio Bonifacio and Wes Helms, right-handers Edward Mujica, Leo Nunez and Brian Sanches, and lefty Randy Choate.

 

http://blogs.sun-sen...Sentinel+Blogs)

 

Kind of a bizarre situation I guess. With the Hopper making arbitration money and Brian Sanches being out of options, it's going to be weird if no one gets hurt in Spring Training.

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It would be relievers and 4 starters, IMO, as far as the schedule reasonably allows.

 

This is correct. Volstad won't be with the team for 7-10 days or whenever they need a 5th starter. They are opening with 8 relievers like they always do. It's who that gets sent down is the question. It would be easier to try and sneak Sanches through a DFA second week of the year, but I'd imagine someone would claim him fairly quickly.

 

And agree that Nunez should be the one that goes. Save that money and turn him into a 3B. I still think the Rangers eat a ton of Young's salary at some point.

He has no options?

 

Seven players on the Marlins’ 40-man roster are out of options, meaning they would have to clear waivers before the club could send them to the minors. The list: catcher John Buck, infielders Emilio Bonifacio and Wes Helms, right-handers Edward Mujica, Leo Nunez and Brian Sanches, and lefty Randy Choate.

 

http://blogs.sun-sen...Sentinel+Blogs)

 

Kind of a bizarre situation I guess. With the Hopper making arbitration money and Brian Sanches being out of options, it's going to be weird if no one gets hurt in Spring Training.

Yes, but I don't think they care if Hopper spends 2 months of the 6 in the minors while injuries occur while they pay his modest salary (which is lower than what we paid Andrew Miller last year in AAA). Plus, if everything goes to plan, Leo racks up 20 saves and is a potential awesome trading chip to an AL team wanting a set up man at the deadline, and we lose nothing as we can just slot in from our solid depth.

 

Marlins threw 500 reliever innings last year (In 2009, a crazy 543). 320 of those came from the top 5 relievers IP wise (Nunez, Hensley, Hopper, Veras, Sanches). I'm not looking at names, I'm looking at these guys threw 75, 67.2, 65, 63.2, and 48 respectively. I find that pretty realistic from our top 5 relievers (who I project Nunez, Webb, Hensley, Mujica, and Choate respectively, which is not any groundbreaking analysis) by the end of the year. There is still a crazy amount of innings here, at least 150, upwards to 250 depending on how far the SP goes on average. If there are three more guys throwing 60 each, we're at 500 innings roughly. Guys are going to get hurt. Dunn and Badenhop could go back and forth a few times to AAA. We're still going to need 9-10 good relievers when all is said and done to reach the amount of innings needed.

 

Basically, I'm just not really concerned here. If we keep them all, by the end of the year they all will get theirs. If we trade one, or whatever, we're still really good as those 7-8-9-10 relievers on the team, i.e. Badenhop/Sanches, Sanabia, Marinez, and say West/Shawn Hill/Jennings/Cishek/Fat Ceda, are probably more than adequate for the mop up time they will be primarily responsible for.

 

So the question, Sanches? Hopper? Dunn? Everyone will still play enough and we don't have to worry much about just picking 7. I guess it's interesting banter for right now, but it's not a big organizational concern. Someone, likely Hop, is just going to have to initially suck up some AAA time. And he's a trooper and won't cry about it, so no worries.

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Mike Dunn is not considered as a depth arm. I'm sorry, but I just guarantee it's going to take a lot for him to get sent down to the minors. Beinfest likes the two lefty idea, we got Dunn in the Uggla trade, and he proved last year that he can be a good pitcher in the big leagues who, at the very least, dominates lefties.

 

At the end of the day, Dunn and Webb are ahead of Badenhop/Sanches on the depth chart, just for the simple fact that they have a lot more upside. Dunn being left-handed gives him an even slighter edge, imo.

 

The Marlins don't even consider Dunn as a guy who just gets lefties out; they've already said they see him as a full inning reliever with the potential to close.

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It would be relievers and 4 starters, IMO, as far as the schedule reasonably allows.

 

This is correct. Volstad won't be with the team for 7-10 days or whenever they need a 5th starter. They are opening with 8 relievers like they always do. It's who that gets sent down is the question. It would be easier to try and sneak Sanches through a DFA second week of the year, but I'd imagine someone would claim him fairly quickly.

 

And agree that Nunez should be the one that goes. Save that money and turn him into a 3B. I still think the Rangers eat a ton of Young's salary at some point.

He has no options?

 

Seven players on the Marlins’ 40-man roster are out of options, meaning they would have to clear waivers before the club could send them to the minors. The list: catcher John Buck, infielders Emilio Bonifacio and Wes Helms, right-handers Edward Mujica, Leo Nunez and Brian Sanches, and lefty Randy Choate.

 

 

http://blogs.sun-sen...Sentinel+Blogs)

 

I can believe he is out of options???? :o I don't remember him being sent down :blink:

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I dont think the Marlins have ever sent Sanches down... but he was around a few years before us on the Nats and Mets. Anyways, I figured the option thing puts Sanches before Hopper. i'm surprised there's even a question between the two.

 

Nonetheless, my point of posting here...

 

Anyone else just happy that we're having a thread on this topic? I think last summer most of us would have killed to think that in February of 2011... Sanches and Hopper would be on the perimeter of getting into our bullpen in 2011. Its one of those things where managers say "It's a good problem to have"

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Nonetheless, my point of posting here...

 

Anyone else just happy that we're having a thread on this topic? I think last summer most of us would have killed to think that in February of 2011... Sanches and Hopper would be on the perimeter of getting into our bullpen in 2011. Its one of those things where managers say "It's a good problem to have"

 

Extremely happy. Honestly, if the team can do what they did last season as far as playing games goes, we could have a 90+ win season this year with the improved bullpen. I'm excited.

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