Sirspud Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I mean, if we sign Pujols or Fielder, then absolutely do it. Morrison is almost assuredly never going to be a great player as a LFer. If not, however, keep in mind that we're not going to fleece anyone, either. Andrew Friedman is no slouch. If you said great defender, sure. But we don't know what Morrison will end up doing as a hitter, and many good hitting left fielders can't field well. He's not going to become Pujols or Fielder, but he could still end up being pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True CRaysball Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 MINE! YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I don't want him. You don't buy high and sell low. He's probably never going to have a season like he had this year and we'll end up overpaying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirspud Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't want him. You don't buy high and sell low. He's probably never going to have a season like he had this year and we'll end up overpaying. You don't buy high and sell low? The Marlins usually get one of those two wrong, and somehow it wouldn't surprise me to see them complete the other half. You are right Shields would be buying high though. That may be ok for a team that has expendable parts in their system, but we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I mean, if we sign Pujols or Fielder, then absolutely do it. Morrison is almost assuredly never going to be a great player as a LFer. If not, however, keep in mind that we're not going to fleece anyone, either. Andrew Friedman is no slouch. If you said great defender, sure. But we don't know what Morrison will end up doing as a hitter, and many good hitting left fielders can't field well. He's not going to become Pujols or Fielder, but he could still end up being pretty good. He's probably not going to hit enough to make him a great player overall in LF. He'd have to OPS .900 to do so, probably, and that's unlikely to be a regular occurrence for Morrison. Possible, but unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Moving LoMo is not a great idea, even for someone like Shields. Not only is he going to develop into a very good offensive weapon, you're basically taking away the only left-handed bat that means anything in our lineup (and the only decent left-handed hitter we've had since Cliff Floyd). This team needs more pitching, sure, but as someone mentioned your ideal chip has got to be Gaby Sanchez. Sell high on this guy coming off an All-Star season, because he is very replacable at 1B. No one is giving you anything for Gaby. Big difference. Other teams aren't viewing him as a longterm option as there isn't upside in his bat and he's a normal .775-.800 OPS guy. He's worth more to the Marlins than in trade. The same can't be said for Morrison, who someone will gamble on. But I agree with you on the left handed analysis. That would be a tough sell, but at the same time if they can get a big time SP with a beneficial contract, it might be worth it. Shields would eat the NL East alive and is underpaid via free agent options. Big time. I'm not opposed. I believe in starting pitching. You sign Buerhle too and your starting pitching is Johnson, Shields, Buerhle, Anibal, and Nolasco, and you still have $6-10 million to spend on bats, which won't be a superstar, but you could get 2-3 real solid guys, and hopefully cash in Leo/Volstad for at least a bench bat. That pitching staff is amazing. Screw it, trade out James/Hand for more young bats. Everyone is signed for 2013 except Anibal. Go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entendu Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I never understood the whole 'this guy isn't fit to play this position because he can't hit like the rest of those in his position' argument. It's about the whole team, not the individual. A team who has a guy playing a position where he's generally considered a weak bat in may also have a guy who is tremendous in a position full of weak bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I never understood the whole 'this guy isn't fit to play this position because he can't hit like the rest of those in his position' argument. It's about the whole team, not the individual. A team who has a guy playing a position where he's generally considered a weak bat in may also have a guy who is tremendous in a position full of weak bats. It's about relative value here. If the Marlins sign a long-term 1B, i.e. Pujols, then Morrison obviously would stay in left field. But, his value as a LFer is not great, while his value as a 1B, where he supposedly brings strong defense, might indeed be great. The Rays can put him at 1B, so he has a greater value to them than he would to us if we signed a guy like Pujols. Further, the comparison to others at his position matters because it implies something about the availability of better players. If Morrison is, say, the 22nd-best starting LF in the Majors, then we should be able to get a similar or better guy at an easier price than if he were, say, the 5th-best starting LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFan88 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 the fact that sirspud is disagreeing with those he usually disagrees with tells me that we should sign shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beinfest Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't want him. You don't buy high and sell low. He's probably never going to have a season like he had this year and we'll end up overpaying. Thus why mamma wasn't so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada-marlin24 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 sheild's number were actually very good, except 2010, especially in very hitter friendly parks in the AL east which i suspect had an impact on his home runs allowed. i would have no problem bringing him in but not for lomo. maybe gaby and nolasco like someone said before but i doubt that would happen considering ricky, SOMEHOW, is more expensive than shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nny Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 ricky, SOMEHOW, is more expensive than shields. Ricky is more expensive than shields because he hit arbitration a year before shields. If you look how their contracts break down based off service/arbitration time. year 1 Ricky: 2.4 Shields: 2.5 Year 2 Ricky: 3.8 Shields: 4.25 Year 3: Ricky: 6m Shields 7m Year 4 Ricky: 9m Shields: 9m Year 5 Ricky: 11.5m Shields: 12m So shields made more than Ricky every year besides year 4. Now yes, he still has pitched a lot better than Ricky, but Shields also signed his contract with under 2 years of service time - meaning Shields gave up money in the long run for security. If Shields went year-to-year like Ricky did up until Ricky's contract, Shields would have made more money on a per year basis. Look no further then the Rays on why buying out arbitration years early is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada-marlin24 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 ricky, SOMEHOW, is more expensive than shields. Ricky is more expensive than shields because he hit arbitration a year before shields. If you look how their contracts break down based off service/arbitration time. year 1 Ricky: 2.4 Shields: 2.5 Year 2 Ricky: 3.8 Shields: 4.25 Year 3: Ricky: 6m Shields 7m Year 4 Ricky: 9m Shields: 9m Year 5 Ricky: 11.5m Shields: 12m So shields made more than Ricky every year besides year 4. Now yes, he still has pitched a lot better than Ricky, but Shields also signed his contract with under 2 years of service time - meaning Shields gave up money in the long run for security. If Shields went year-to-year like Ricky did up until Ricky's contract, Shields would have made more money on a per year basis. Look no further then the Rays on why buying out arbitration years early is important. shields is making 7 million next year while ricky is making 9. then shields has a team option for 9 million in 2013 while ricky is set to make 11.5 million. yes shields signed earlier but all that matters now is that ricky is making 4.5 million more over the next two years and is clearly not worth it. the "somehow" was just sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 But you're comparing them at different points in their careers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Even though Gaby was an all star, he didn't really have an all star season. Still, sell some team on him being an "all star" last season, get some good value (aka a major league ready center fielder, 3rd baseman, or starting pitcher) for Gaby. I've been saying that Gaby was going to be traded within the next two years since LoMo got called up. I think this offseason is the time to maximize his value. I think you are overestimating Gaby's value. The problem is that he appears to be exclusively a first baseman; it's unlikely that potential suitors see him as anything else. On top of that, while he's competent defensively at first, he's basically a sub-.800 OPS bat with marginal power at the most offensive position (and easiest to fill) position in the game. That diminishes his value considerably. What makes him valuable for the Marlins is that he's still cheap. That's not going to get you a MLB ready (even cheaper) 3B or CF, which are both much harder positions to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish4Life Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't want him. You don't buy high and sell low. He's probably never going to have a season like he had this year and we'll end up overpaying. THIS! 100% agree,.. However, if Lomo does get dealt for anyone this offseason, although I wouldnt like to see it because he has huge upside with his stick and is lefty, he brought it upon hiself with his whole "act" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishes on the Pond Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago. Say it ain't so.......he has a tremendous work ethic but he is beyond his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Plus we'd be losing a ton of youth in a move like that. I don't like it. As much as I hate Morrison right now, I think he has only started to tap into what he will do. I think this would be a horrible mistake. Morrison may grow up and be a bat to hang onto. We lose him, we definitely have to go after a replacement bat and another one. Taking on Shields and two expensive bats probably means no Burlehe or anyone else of consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 maybe for dominguez but not morrisson. Yeah because Matt Dominguez = one of the best pitchers in the AL last year. I'm sure the Rays would be really interested too; they don't have a 3B or anything. Only way it gets done is if Morrison is traded, and quite frankly, I'd be all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 All depends on subsequent moves they'd make because I could go either way on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 well you get the more proven player in shields at this point but i don't know what else they'd want besides Lomo that we could offer...i really hope they don't do something like Boner plus Lomo (and bring in a used-up JP to replace Boni) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 NO NO NO! We need Lomo if we aren't going to bring in Pujols or Fielder. I'd rather not take the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enterthemadness Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I'm ready for BP to start. LoMo a jerk. You a jerk, homie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 he's a horse too, last 5 seasons he's gone over 200 innings and 30 starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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