Jump to content

Marlins Considering Shields


gizmo

Recommended Posts

well you get the more proven player in shields at this point but i don't know what else they'd want besides Lomo that we could offer...i really hope they don't do something like Boner plus Lomo (and bring in a used-up JP to replace Boni)

 

 

Jp can't replace Bonifacio because he can't play infield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago.

 

I gotta think the suits saw that we need some LH SP to better match up in our division. I refuse to think they see bringing in a righty like Shields does anything for us. Buster may be right and they did look. But it's the off season and before FA filings, so they are, or at least should be looking at every option available just to see what they can do if they want. MLB version of window shopping.

 

JP back to Florida? Maybe. For one, the FO and coaching staff know his work ethics and the fact our youngsters are lacking there. And second, we have no idea if Hanley will actually be ready come Opening Day. The FO may look at this as being someone to play CF very well while Boni fills in at SS to start the season. If JP gets his bat together, then it turns out great. If not, he becomes trade bait to fill in a spot come the deadline.

 

I'm not saying I'm for or against bringing him back. I'm trying to see how the FO would be looking at things. It wouldn't surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me to see them bring DTrain back on a minor league contract, or something $$$-wise similar, for ST.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pierre is done. no need to bring back guys like him and Dontrelle for nostalgic purposes. those types of moves are the ones made by teams that know they'll be terrible just so they can put an extra seat or two in the stands. i sincerely hope they FO doesn't look at this season and automatically believe they're going to be just as awful next year and use a cheap gimmick like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago.

 

I refuse to think they see bringing in a righty like Shields does anything for us.

 

 

lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pierre is done. no need to bring back guys like him and Dontrelle for nostalgic purposes. those types of moves are the ones made by teams that know they'll be terrible just so they can put an extra seat or two in the stands. i sincerely hope they FO doesn't look at this season and automatically believe they're going to be just as awful next year and use a cheap gimmick like this.

 

Now that the children are temporarily done throwing around their 5th grade insults without either reading the entire post, not understanding was what written, or just plain old ignoring what was said....

 

I wouldn't see it as a gimmick if they did it. JP would be nothing more than insurance just in case Hanley isn't ready. He could be released or traded if and/or when things actually did fall into place. This isn't an original idea from me. I believe this was one of the things covered at marlins.com during one of those Q&A articles recently, and it got me to thinking about it. So maybe the children would like to go over there and toss their insults.

 

DTrain signed a minor league contract with the Reds last season. I have no idea if anyone, including the Reds, are even looking at him. I do know the FO was looking into him last off season until they decided "his head still wasn't right." Actual quote from Beinfest (or Hill) during the FanFest open discussion. So I could see them looking at him again this off season for a minor league deal. And he actually did pretty well vs leftys last season. It really would be nothing more than filling a spot, just in case. Or maybe they would think reuniting him with a couple of his old coaches that are still in our system would be beneficial to him. I have no idea.

 

 

Like I said....I have no real feelings either way, on either player. But either signing wouldn't surprise me. Putting bodies in uniforms for ST is just the way things are done. Then you move them down or weed them out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago.

I refuse to think they see bringing in a righty like Shields does anything for us. lol

Way to ignore the point, which was actually made very clearly and understandable.

 

We need a top of the line lefty SP in our division more than we need another righty. Shields would be nice, but he dosen't fit our needs. If the Rays want to gobble up some of his payroll so we can still afford that lefty, then fine. If not, then pass. I really doubt we get a top lefty at some kind of discount just because..........Do you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said that adding Shields "doesn't do anything" to help the Marlins. I'm not too thrilled with the idea of overpaying for Shields, but what you are saying is pure foolishness.

 

First of all, the Marlins' rotation is much more than one great lefty SP away from being contenders. With Vazquez more than likely being gone, adding someone like Shields (who will more than likely outperform Volstad and Nolasco--who have both been rumored to be on the trading block) could absolutely benefit the rotation. Adding Shields does not prevent the Marlins from also signing someone like Buehrle or Wilson.

 

Shields absolutely does something. The questions are whether or not he will be as good as he was last season and if he will be worth the price through a trade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago.

I refuse to think they see bringing in a righty like Shields does anything for us. lol

Way to ignore the point, which was actually made very clearly and understandable.

 

We need a top of the line lefty SP in our division more than we need another righty. Shields would be nice, but he dosen't fit our needs. If the Rays want to gobble up some of his payroll so we can still afford that lefty, then fine. If not, then pass. I really doubt we get a top lefty at some kind of discount just because..........Do you?

 

I didn't miss your point.

 

I think your point is stupid.

 

Every team is interested in a guy who throws over 200 innings every year and has proven he can do it not only terms of quantity but quality, as well. Last year, he threw ~250 innings. In the best division in baseball. James Shields could have the ball coming out of his ass; if he's putting up those #'s, it doesn't matter whether he's lefty, righty, or whatever. Every team would be interested in such an arm.

 

To say you don't see how the Marlins would have interest is ridiculous. Let me guess, should we opt for another Nate Robertson instead? I mean, uh, after all, he's left-handed!

 

Plus, the point of a lefty is to have a guy who pitches well against lefty-oriented lineups.

James Shields is a better pitcher against left-handed hitters than he is against right-handed hitters.

 

Check the #'s. Better yet, don't do that because I know you hate numbers. Just watch him pitch. His best pitch is his changeup. His changeup is deadly against left-handed hitters.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said that adding Shields "doesn't do anything" to help the Marlins. I'm not too thrilled with the idea of overpaying for Shields, but what you are saying is pure foolishness. First of all, the Marlins' rotation is much more than one great lefty SP away from being contenders. With Vazquez more than likely being gone, adding someone like Shields (who will more than likely outperform Volstad and Nolasco--who have both been rumored to be on the trading block) could absolutely benefit the rotation. Adding Shields does not prevent the Marlins from also signing someone like Buehrle or Wilson. Shields absolutely does something. The questions are whether or not he will be as good as he was last season and if he will be worth the price through a trade.

 

If Volly and/or Ricky are actually traded then that changes things up. Shields would be welcome. But that's not what this areticle is about. It's about having them here and trading pieces that would better used down the road for a lefty that is greatly needed. In that case, Shields dosen't fill any great need under current circumstances. And every article I have read coming from the Marlins and their beat writers have those two still on the team come Opening Day. Fill the need first.

 

"Worth the price through the trade"?? See above. However, if Volly or Ricky would be included in it, or they are traded before this trade to get that lefty, then.... There is nothing in this, or any other article on this topic that says that. BUT (and keeping with the thread) Do you honestly believe Tampa is going to give Shields up for a much publisized malcontent and a couple minor leaguers? That would be thinking everyone is stupid but us.

 

 

Look at our current 40 man. 23 pitchers, 4 lefties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol i posted this trade idea a couple different times on this site a month or so ago on different threads. Living here in Tampa I am very aware about Shields and and being a Marlins fan I also realize how badly they seem to want to get Lomo off the team (without outright saying anything of course) for his "insubordination". I suggest it was a natural match to trade the two guys although yes, it would take more than just Lomo to get Shields. I'm just really hoping Ozzie doesn't want to bring JP back to South Florida since he's done in Chicago.

I refuse to think they see bringing in a righty like Shields does anything for us. lol Way to ignore the point, which was actually made very clearly and understandable. We need a top of the line lefty SP in our division more than we need another righty. Shields would be nice, but he dosen't fit our needs. If the Rays want to gobble up some of his payroll so we can still afford that lefty, then fine. If not, then pass. I really doubt we get a top lefty at some kind of discount just because..........Do you? I didn't miss your point. I think your point is stupid. Every team is interested in a guy who throws over 200 innings every year and has proven he can do it not only terms of quantity but quality, as well. Last year, he threw ~250 innings. In the best division in baseball. James Shields could have the ball coming out of his ass; if he's putting up those #'s, it doesn't matter whether he's lefty, righty, or whatever. Every team would be interested in such an arm. To say you don't see how the Marlins would have interest is ridiculous. Let me guess, should we opt for another Nate Robertson instead? I mean, uh, after all, he's left-handed! Plus, the point of a lefty is to have a guy who pitches well against lefty-oriented lineups. James Shields is a better pitcher against left-handed hitters than he is against right-handed hitters. Check the #'s. Better yet, don't do that because I know you hate numbers. Just watch him pitch. His best pitch is his changeup. His changeup is deadly against left-handed hitters. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Whatever yoy say. Every thought or remark is "stupid", except yours. I realize that. Wanna bet whether or not he is here before a lefty is brought in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No because the best two pitchers in free agency are left-handers.

Shields is not a free agent; we'd have to give up assets to get him. It might not even happen. That doesn't mean the Marlins would have no interest because, uh, he's right-handed.

 

You're so close-minded, it's ridiculous. I mean, I guess that's good. When you get open-minded your ideas get even worse. Like "hey, lets put Gaby Sanchez in LF!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said that adding Shields "doesn't do anything" to help the Marlins. I'm not too thrilled with the idea of overpaying for Shields, but what you are saying is pure foolishness. First of all, the Marlins' rotation is much more than one great lefty SP away from being contenders. With Vazquez more than likely being gone, adding someone like Shields (who will more than likely outperform Volstad and Nolasco--who have both been rumored to be on the trading block) could absolutely benefit the rotation. Adding Shields does not prevent the Marlins from also signing someone like Buehrle or Wilson. Shields absolutely does something. The questions are whether or not he will be as good as he was last season and if he will be worth the price through a trade.

 

If Volly and/or Ricky are actually traded then that changes things up. Shields would be welcome. But that's not what this areticle is about. It's about having them here and trading pieces that would better used down the road for a lefty that is greatly needed. In that case, Shields dosen't fill any great need under current circumstances. And every article I have read coming from the Marlins and their beat writers have those two still on the team come Opening Day. Fill the need first.

 

"Worth the price through the trade"?? See above. However, if Volly or Ricky would be included in it, or they are traded before this trade to get that lefty, then.... There is nothing in this, or any other article on this topic that says that. BUT (and keeping with the thread) Do you honestly believe Tampa is going to give Shields up for a much publisized malcontent and a couple minor leaguers? That would be thinking everyone is stupid but us.

 

 

Look at our current 40 man. 23 pitchers, 4 lefties.

Nolasco and Volstad don't have to be traded. Shields improves the rotation no matter what, which means he brings "something." You are trying to say that he adds nothing because he's not a lefty. That's ridiculous. Any talent that's better than what's in the rotation adds something to the rotation, left-handed or right-handed. You aren't talking yourself out of the hole you dug with that silly remark.

 

And, of course, everything indicates that Vazquez is gone right now, which means that he will need to be replaced. There is plenty of room to add right handed pitchers if the Marlins think that they will perform. They will certainly add something to the team. There is a great need to overhaul and improve the entire rotation. You make it sound like the Marlins are one lefty away from being good--that is far from being the base, especially in this division. Ideally, the Marlins would be adding at least two new starters. Any starter that comes close to Shields' 2011 numbers is welcome, regardless of whether he's a lefty or righty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever yoy say. Every thought or remark is "stupid", except yours. I realize that. Wanna bet whether or not he is here before a lefty is brought in?

 

Nobody is questioning that the Marlins are going to make a strong effort to add a lefty, especially with two great ones on the free agent market. Nobody is saying that trading for Shields is the best business move.

 

The problem is that it's idiotic to say that adding a solid RHP does nothing to improve the team. You are essentially saying that the Marlins' rotation is set outside of one LHP and the Marlins shouldn't be looking at anyone else because more righties won't "add" anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said that adding Shields "doesn't do anything" to help the Marlins. I'm not too thrilled with the idea of overpaying for Shields, but what you are saying is pure foolishness. First of all, the Marlins' rotation is much more than one great lefty SP away from being contenders. With Vazquez more than likely being gone, adding someone like Shields (who will more than likely outperform Volstad and Nolasco--who have both been rumored to be on the trading block) could absolutely benefit the rotation. Adding Shields does not prevent the Marlins from also signing someone like Buehrle or Wilson. Shields absolutely does something. The questions are whether or not he will be as good as he was last season and if he will be worth the price through a trade.

If Volly and/or Ricky are actually traded then that changes things up. Shields would be welcome. But that's not what this areticle is about. It's about having them here and trading pieces that would better used down the road for a lefty that is greatly needed. In that case, Shields dosen't fill any great need under current circumstances. And every article I have read coming from the Marlins and their beat writers have those two still on the team come Opening Day. Fill the need first. "Worth the price through the trade"?? See above. However, if Volly or Ricky would be included in it, or they are traded before this trade to get that lefty, then.... There is nothing in this, or any other article on this topic that says that. BUT (and keeping with the thread) Do you honestly believe Tampa is going to give Shields up for a much publisized malcontent and a couple minor leaguers? That would be thinking everyone is stupid but us. Look at our current 40 man. 23 pitchers, 4 lefties. Nolasco and Volstad don't have to be traded. Shields improves the rotation no matter what, which means he brings "something." You are trying to say that he adds nothing because he's not a lefty. That's ridiculous. Any talent that's better than what's in the rotation adds something to the rotation, left-handed or right-handed. You aren't talking yourself out of the hole you dug with that silly remark. And, of course, everything indicates that Vazquez is gone right now, which means that he will need to be replaced. There is plenty of room to add right handed pitchers if the Marlins think that they will perform. They will certainly add something to the team. There is a great need to overhaul and improve the entire rotation. You make it sound like the Marlins are one lefty away from being good--that is far from being the base, especially in this division. Ideally, the Marlins would be adding at least two new starters. Any starter that comes close to Shields' 2011 numbers is welcome, regardless of whether he's a lefty or righty.

No, I'm not looking at we don't want him just because he's a righty. Shield's numbers going into last season were not all that spectacular. 4.31 ERA with a 1.30 WHIP. He had a real good season last year with a 2.82/1.04. Brings his career numbers to 3.96/1.23. Was that his breakout year or just a career year? Who knows. I've never been a what have you done for me lately type fan. I would rather not trade anything for him and wait and see.

 

If they are working on something else via rtrade, or another trade presents itself during the meetings or the rest of the off season, what do we have left to trade of value if this trade is done? Our minor league system is pretty much depleted. Heck, according to the Q & A section of marlins.com, we may not even tender a contract to arby eligible Baker.

 

Our payroll is rising. But that $$$ still has to be spent wisely. So I would say hold off on Shields, see what else is out there via trade, see what we can get via FA, and let Shields prove he wasn't a one year wonder with those impressive numbers. He's still due $28 mil over the next 3 years. Very nice if he keeps up last year's performance, but if he goes back to that 4.31/1.38?? Really nothing better than what we already have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever yoy say. Every thought or remark is "stupid", except yours. I realize that. Wanna bet whether or not he is here before a lefty is brought in?

Nobody is questioning that the Marlins are going to make a strong effort to add a lefty, especially with two great ones on the free agent market. Nobody is saying that trading for Shields is the best business move. The problem is that it's idiotic to say that adding a solid RHP does nothing to improve the team. You are essentially saying that the Marlins' rotation is set outside of one LHP and the Marlins shouldn't be looking at anyone else because more righties won't "add" anything.

Not really. See above post. And then think of guys that had one really good season and that was basically it. Shields' numbers aren't "solid", albeit last season. Career numbers-wise, we could do just as good or better via FA or a trade elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No because the best two pitchers in free agency are left-handers. Shields is not a free agent; we'd have to give up assets to get him. It might not even happen. That doesn't mean the Marlins would have no interest because, uh, he's right-handed. You're so close-minded, it's ridiculous. I mean, I guess that's good. When you get open-minded your ideas get even worse. Like "hey, lets put Gaby Sanchez in LF!"

 

Nice way to take remarks out of context to make yourself look good. And this coming from a guy whose history of judging talent and trades is, shall we say, less than spectacular??

 

What you call close minded I call looking at the big picture and NOT being a what have you done for me lately

kind of person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's also every chance that Volstad doesn't come back, depending on what his arbitration number looks like.

 

This is a pretty good point. His numbers aren't all that great, he bounces back and forth to the minors, but the powers-that-be seem to really like the guy. Actually, he's one of those underdogs that I pull for with no concrete reasoning behind it.

 

After tonight's WS game, FA opens up. I think it's going to be a very interesting off season. I just hope the Marlins spend and trade wisely. The Phillys are the team to focus on in our division. Do what it takes to overtake them and their NL leading payroll. Take into account they are looking to upgrade too.

 

I hate to paraphrase Samson, but..... "We are going to spend more this season, but we still have to spend wisely. We lost 90 games last season. If we lose 90 games next season we just did it with a higher payroll." Sometimes even Tin Boy spins some gold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said that adding Shields "doesn't do anything" to help the Marlins. I'm not too thrilled with the idea of overpaying for Shields, but what you are saying is pure foolishness. First of all, the Marlins' rotation is much more than one great lefty SP away from being contenders. With Vazquez more than likely being gone, adding someone like Shields (who will more than likely outperform Volstad and Nolasco--who have both been rumored to be on the trading block) could absolutely benefit the rotation. Adding Shields does not prevent the Marlins from also signing someone like Buehrle or Wilson. Shields absolutely does something. The questions are whether or not he will be as good as he was last season and if he will be worth the price through a trade.

If Volly and/or Ricky are actually traded then that changes things up. Shields would be welcome. But that's not what this areticle is about. It's about having them here and trading pieces that would better used down the road for a lefty that is greatly needed. In that case, Shields dosen't fill any great need under current circumstances. And every article I have read coming from the Marlins and their beat writers have those two still on the team come Opening Day. Fill the need first. "Worth the price through the trade"?? See above. However, if Volly or Ricky would be included in it, or they are traded before this trade to get that lefty, then.... There is nothing in this, or any other article on this topic that says that. BUT (and keeping with the thread) Do you honestly believe Tampa is going to give Shields up for a much publisized malcontent and a couple minor leaguers? That would be thinking everyone is stupid but us. Look at our current 40 man. 23 pitchers, 4 lefties. Nolasco and Volstad don't have to be traded. Shields improves the rotation no matter what, which means he brings "something." You are trying to say that he adds nothing because he's not a lefty. That's ridiculous. Any talent that's better than what's in the rotation adds something to the rotation, left-handed or right-handed. You aren't talking yourself out of the hole you dug with that silly remark. And, of course, everything indicates that Vazquez is gone right now, which means that he will need to be replaced. There is plenty of room to add right handed pitchers if the Marlins think that they will perform. They will certainly add something to the team. There is a great need to overhaul and improve the entire rotation. You make it sound like the Marlins are one lefty away from being good--that is far from being the base, especially in this division. Ideally, the Marlins would be adding at least two new starters. Any starter that comes close to Shields' 2011 numbers is welcome, regardless of whether he's a lefty or righty.

No, I'm not looking at we don't want him just because he's a righty. Shield's numbers going into last season were not all that spectacular. 4.31 ERA with a 1.30 WHIP. He had a real good season last year with a 2.82/1.04. Brings his career numbers to 3.96/1.23. Was that his breakout year or just a career year? Who knows. I've never been a what have you done for me lately type fan. I would rather not trade anything for him and wait and see.

 

If they are working on something else via rtrade, or another trade presents itself during the meetings or the rest of the off season, what do we have left to trade of value if this trade is done? Our minor league system is pretty much depleted. Heck, according to the Q & A section of marlins.com, we may not even tender a contract to arby eligible Baker.

 

Our payroll is rising. But that $$$ still has to be spent wisely. So I would say hold off on Shields, see what else is out there via trade, see what we can get via FA, and let Shields prove he wasn't a one year wonder with those impressive numbers. He's still due $28 mil over the next 3 years. Very nice if he keeps up last year's performance, but if he goes back to that 4.31/1.38?? Really nothing better than what we already have.

Now you are backtracking on what you said earlier, probably because you realize how idiotic it was. This is what you said:

 

I refuse to think they see bringing in a righty like Shields does anything for us.

 

 

You are essentially saying that the team shouldn't be adding any more right handers. If you were worried specifically about Shields' numbers pre-2011, him being right handed would have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. You are trying to reverse on what you said now. It's pretty clear what you meant the first time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever yoy say. Every thought or remark is "stupid", except yours. I realize that. Wanna bet whether or not he is here before a lefty is brought in?

Nobody is questioning that the Marlins are going to make a strong effort to add a lefty, especially with two great ones on the free agent market. Nobody is saying that trading for Shields is the best business move. The problem is that it's idiotic to say that adding a solid RHP does nothing to improve the team. You are essentially saying that the Marlins' rotation is set outside of one LHP and the Marlins shouldn't be looking at anyone else because more righties won't "add" anything.

Not really. See above post. And then think of guys that had one really good season and that was basically it. Shields' numbers aren't "solid", albeit last season. Career numbers-wise, we could do just as good or better via FA or a trade elsewhere.

Again, nobody here is saying that trading for Shields is a no-brainer or even wise decision. However, the fact that he's a right handed pitcher has nothing to do with that.

 

The issue here is your claim (a claim that you are trying to backtrack on) that adding right handers won't improve the team. If this were all about Shields' overall numbers, the fact that he throws with his right arm wouldn't need to have been emphasized in your earlier couple of posts. You can't fool us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...