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Ideas from a frustrated fan (Warning Long post)


Rydawg
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This season is obviously over. However, the question now is what to do? How do you fix this team going forward? I personally don't think that the team needs to be gutted. There is still alot of talent on this team.

 

1) Trade Carlos Lee and get what you can for him, and finally move LOMO to first. I know that LOMO hasn't lived up to expectations yet, but he is still young and left handed. Plus, he has been out of position, and injured alot. Not ready to give up on him just yet, but he is close to running out of chances.

 

2) The catcher position is horrible. Right now I would demote Hayes because he still has options, and promote Luke Montz. He has had a couple of decent AAA seasons and has alot of power. If he doesn't pan out he still can't be any worse than what we have right now.

 

3) Trade Infante. Nothing against Infante but he has some trade value right now, and he is easily replaceable. You can give Solano a shot but I think long term Emilio Bonifacio will better serve the team at second base. You have Yelich coming up probably sometime next season, and it's easier to trade for or sign outfield help than it is infield help.

 

4) Trade Ricky Nolasco. This one might be personal for me. I used to have decent expcetations for him, and he really has turned out to be a very pedestrian 5th starter. Get what you can for him, and move Wade Leblanc into the rotation. Again it can't be any worse.

 

5) Trade or release Zambrano. He just doesn't have it anymore. He started out ok but he is another very pedestrian 5th starter. Promote Brad Hand from AAA. He is still young, and left handed and is having a decent season at AAA. He was a second round pick a few season ago so the organization must have seen something in him.

 

6)Promote some of the young bullpen arms in the minors. AJ Ramos is tearing up AA and deserves a shot. Bye Bye Gaudin. Chris Hatcher has never been given a decent shot in majors, and yet his minor league numbers are solid. Maybe we can move Mujica or Choate as they might have some value to a contender with bullpen needs.

 

7) Sign Anibal Sanchez to an extension. This migh have to wait until the offseason and then we'd have to sign him as a free agent. I think a core of Josh Johnson, Mark Buerhle, and Anibal Sanchez is still a solid 1,2,3 punch. I'm still hoping that J J will become an ACE again.

 

8)Make sure that we get back hitting in any trades we make. I realize our farm system gets a bum rap but we really do have some decent pitching prospects in Fernandez, Conley, Brice, Urena, and Lowell.

 

The rest of the team should be left alone including Hanley. You aren't going to get good value for him anyway. He is 28 (I think) and can bounce back. Maybe not the old Hanley but a good third base with pop. Just my two cents. Thanks for reading and letting me vent a little bit.

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I agree on nolasco, zambrano, and anibal. Losing anibal would leave some big holes in the rotation.

 

Brad hand has potential but still needs to stop walking so many guys and we do have some nice prospects in Fernandez and Conley.

 

But I do want to keep infante as he hits and has an amazing glove which is not replaceable.

 

If we get something pretty solid I may trade lee as well though I really like his situational hitting.

 

And yes I would prefer to see buck and Hayes gone. Would be nice if someone could take a flier on buck for a year with his power.

 

For some reason Im still willing to give Hanley a chance because of his sheer talent. Sad you just don't see him pulverize those balls into the gap anymore.

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I was cool with everything until Hanley. Big reason why we are out of this.

 

See, why is HANLEY getting the blame for this?

He's not the only one doing bad this year. Count em up, 17 players on this team are underperforming or sucking. You can not win with 68% of your roster doing sh*tty.

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I was cool with everything until Hanley. Big reason why we are out of this.

 

See, why is HANLEY getting the blame for this?

He's not the only one doing bad this year. Count em up, 17 players on this team are underperforming or sucking. You can not win with 68% of your roster doing sh*tty.

 

Because the team is ADMITTEDLY BY OWNERSHIP & FO, built around him. He is the lynch pin. If he does crappy, then the whole concept of the way this team was built falls apart.

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So it's his fault that Reyes, Infante [with RISP], Gaby [when he was up], Buck, Morrison, Hayes, Bell, Johnson, Anibal, Ricky, Zambrano lately, and most the bullpen has underperformed or sucked, because the team is built around him. Makes sense. It's all his fault.

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I wouldn't trade Infante. He's a solid, consistent piece. The kind of piece you use to build a team. This team should want to win next year, so losing him is counterproductive. I'd also try and resign Anibal. The rotation is going to be a problem next year if we don't have anyone signed behind JJ (who many not be an ace anymore,) Buehrle and Ricky.

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1. Nah.

2. I had to google him to find out who he is. That's a bad start. Add the fact he's 29 years old in the minors and batting .243 and it's an obvious pass. Hayes is better than him.

3. Yeah, this makes sense, although Bonfacio would be playing 2nd base if Infante is traded. Solano's always gonna be a utility guy (although the same used to be said about Bonifacio).

4. I'd agree on trading Nolasco, but that contract and his lack of results when compared to his stuff will lead to him being untradeable at the deadline.

5. Nah. We'd get a bag of peanuts for Zambrano. He serves more purpose to us just finishing out the season in the rotation and going on his way afterwards.

6. Now your just looking for random minor leaguers with half decent stats and screaming "THEY'RE BETTER THAN OUR GUYS LET'S CALL THEM UP!!!!!". The only bullpen guy really in some jeopardy of being traded is Choate, and that's because LOOGY's are always in high demand. We'd probably get an Arthur Rhodes style kind of deal for him. Nothing major, but probably worth a look.

7. I'm cool with either signing Anibal to an extension or trading him when his value is highest, which is either now at the deadline or in the offseason. Anibal is a proven #2 caliber pitcher, so that should net a very nice return with Greinke and Hamels getting closer to signing extensions. Teams are desperate for starting pitching, and some might be desperate enough to give up high rated prospects for Sanchez.

8. We also have some nice hitting prospects in Yelich, Realmuto, and Ozuna. I agree we need to get ourselves a center fielder and possibly a catcher for the long term, but when trading for prospects, you always look at pitching first. You can never have too many good starting pitching prospects.

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I do agree with Hanley though, with the same principle applying for Johnson (although JJ has lost the velocity on his fastball and touch on his slider that made him such a dangerous pitcher since coming back from TJ surgery). I think Hanley the person sometimes makes people irrational towards Hanley the player. He's definitely underperformed the last two seasons, but there's no way in hell we get market value for Hanley at this point. Three years ago he was one of the top three players in all of baseball. Two years ago he was a .300 hitter and still a great player. I'd rather keep Hanley the rest of his contract and hope he becomes his former self again, even if that means him continuing to perform like a league average shortstop, than trade him for players that won't ever become even half what Hanley was just two years ago (and the Carl Crawford rumors...I mean just c'mon man).

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I would trade Anibal Sanchez.

 

The rest, I agree with. Unless if we get good value for Hanley at this point (unlikely), then trade him too.

 

Quite frankly, any player not named Giancarlo Stanton could get traded at this point and I wouldn't care if we get good value back.

 

Ideally (hopefully), the idea is to move Bonifacio (2B) and Morrison (1B) to their natural positions already. Get a CF'er.

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I would trade Anibal Sanchez.

 

The rest, I agree with. Unless if we get good value for Hanley at this point (unlikely), then trade him too.

 

Quite frankly, any player not named Giancarlo Stanton could get traded at this point and I wouldn't care if we get good value back.

 

Ideally (hopefully), the idea is to move Bonifacio (2B) and Morrison (1B) to their natural positions already. Get a CF'er.

 

 

And who would play LF?

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I would trade Anibal Sanchez.

 

The rest, I agree with. Unless if we get good value for Hanley at this point (unlikely), then trade him too.

 

Quite frankly, any player not named Giancarlo Stanton could get traded at this point and I wouldn't care if we get good value back.

 

Ideally (hopefully), the idea is to move Bonifacio (2B) and Morrison (1B) to their natural positions already. Get a CF'er.

 

 

And who would play LF?

Ruggiano, Yelich eventually, someone.

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I would trade Anibal Sanchez.

 

The rest, I agree with. Unless if we get good value for Hanley at this point (unlikely), then trade him too.

 

Quite frankly, any player not named Giancarlo Stanton could get traded at this point and I wouldn't care if we get good value back.

 

Ideally (hopefully), the idea is to move Bonifacio (2B) and Morrison (1B) to their natural positions already. Get a CF'er.

 

 

And who would play LF?

Ruggiano, Yelich eventually, someone.

 

I'm not comfortable committing a whole season to Ruggiano at this point - and Yelich won't be ready by the start of next year. I think the goal is to win next year, unless you people actually want to blow this team up and rebuild.

 

I'd rather keep in Infante and leave Boni in LF/CF, then go out and get a CF or LF. By the time Infante's contract is up, we should be much closer to getting Yelich up here - so it's then when you move Boni to 2B to make room for Yelich in the OF, and stomach half a season or so of a Ruggiano in the OF. Or if Yelich enters the Majors in the second half of next year, you figure out what to do with Infante or Bonifacio then, but not any sooner.

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LF is an easy position to fill.

Right now, it's all about CF (assuming the plan is to move Bonifacio back to 2B, which I'm fine with).

 

The money we're letting go via pitching should be spent on bats in free agency. That's usually what you're supposed to buy in free agency, anyway - bats. Spending on pitching is far riskier.

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LF is an easy position to fill.

Right now, it's all about CF (assuming the plan is to move Bonifacio back to 2B, which I'm fine with).

 

The money we're letting go via pitching should be spent on bats in free agency. That's usually what you're supposed to buy in free agency, anyway - bats. Spending on pitching is far riskier.

 

What money is that?

 

If you mean saving money by trading Nolasco, I doubt anyone would trade for him given his contract / performance.

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LF is an easy position to fill.

Right now, it's all about CF (assuming the plan is to move Bonifacio back to 2B, which I'm fine with).

 

The money we're letting go via pitching should be spent on bats in free agency. That's usually what you're supposed to buy in free agency, anyway - bats. Spending on pitching is far riskier.

 

What money is that?

 

If you mean saving money by trading Nolasco, I doubt anyone would trade for him given his contract / performance.

 

Nolasco/Anibal. That's enough money to buy a bat, assuming payroll stays the same for '13.

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Guest Vince0926

Hanley Ramirez is the definition of overrated. Stares at his home run for 10 seconds at home plate. Even when I know he is on deck I cringe. Solano - I watch this guy (though he's no Babe Ruth) with HITS in the gap, down the line.... I use him as an example because this guy does not seem to show off. Hanley is a clubhouse problem. With uggla, lomo, mckeon, see the trend? Complaining about moving to third. Time to go, man. Trade him now. Even if he plays us 6 to 18 times a year and does above average, let him be someone else's problem.

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LF is an easy position to fill.

Right now, it's all about CF (assuming the plan is to move Bonifacio back to 2B, which I'm fine with).

 

The money we're letting go via pitching should be spent on bats in free agency. That's usually what you're supposed to buy in free agency, anyway - bats. Spending on pitching is far riskier.

 

What money is that?

 

If you mean saving money by trading Nolasco, I doubt anyone would trade for him given his contract / performance.

 

Nolasco/Anibal. That's enough money to buy a bat, assuming payroll stays the same for '13.

Buehrle will cost $5M more next year so that eats into the $8M Anibal savings.

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My plan would be the following:

 

Trade Anibal and try to get back some bats but preferably outfielders.

Don;t trade infante. Second baseman that are actually productive, relatively cheap, and under contract for another year are valuable. Next year if we are out of it trade him but it doesnt make sense to right now.

Trade nolasco. Wont get much back but he has been pretty damn hard to watch for a while now. Need to get his ridiculous contract off the books and promote sanabia and see if he can do anything.

 

Trade choate and try to get 1 guy back who can help us in any way in the future.

If we can get anybody back for any of the bench players like dobbs and kearns trade them.

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They should trade Anibal, Nolasco, Infante, Choate, and Carlos Lee, and get as much young pitching back as possible. No primary bats. Best piece in every deal should be the best arm they can get. Four of those guys are easily moveable, but Nolasco is not. The real trick would be getting someone to eat his 2013 salary ($11.5), even if it costs the Marlins paying him to pitch the rest of the season elsewhere. They will have to get creative, but I think at worst they could get most of that off the books.

 

Regardless of what happens with Nolasco though, they will have enough money (assuming 2012 salary level of roughly $100 million) to sign a big free agent next year, and that has to be BJ Upton or Michael Bourn, Melky Cabrera to a lesser extent, and Victorino as a 4th option. They need to lock in a legitimate younger CF for 4-5 years. Nothing is coming up the system, and this would completely set up the outfield by 2014 once Yelich is ready. This is the # 2 most important thing in the organization outside signing Stanton for 6-7 years, and a worthy free agent investment. Using that money on Anibal is dumb with Fernandez, Conley, James, Heaney, and whatever you get from the above trades of those 5 guys, coming in a year or two. Buy the bat, develop the pitching. Much safer investments.

 

Other minor things would be to keep Gaby in AAA all year so he doesn't hit Super2 arbitration and is at the minimum next year, which allows the Marlins to shop for best available 1B/LF platoon option so Ruggiano, Gaby, and "new veteran" fight for the opposite spot of Morrison/or when they play lefties since Ozzie refuses to play Morrison most of the time.

 

If you're wondering what that team looks like

 

C John Buck $6,000,000

1B Logan Morrison $515,000

2B Emilio Bonifacio $2,750,000 Arb Projection

3B Hanley Ramirez $15,500,000

SS Jose Reyes $10,000,000

LF

CF Upton/Bourn/Melky $12,000,000 Hypothetical FA Deal

RF Mike Stanton $550,000

B Gaby Sanchez $550,000

B Greg Dobbs $1,600,000

B Brett Hayes $750,000 Arb Projection

B Justin Ruggiano $550,000

B Solano/25th Man $515,000

SP Josh Johnson $13,750,000

SP Mark Buerhle $12,000,000

SP

SP

SP Leblanc/Hand $515,000

RP Heath Bell $10,000,000

RP Steve Cishek $515,000

RP Edward Mujica $2,000,000 Arb Projection

RP Ryan Webb $650,000 Arb Projection

RP Mike Dunn $515,000

RP Dan Jennings $515,000

RP

$91,740,000

That's $10 million less then 2012 payroll, meaning I suspect they would spend $8-10 million in free agency to get back to the same level. That means they can sign a legitimate # 4 starting pitcher to a 2 year deal probably $5-7 annually and throw a small deal to a 1 year slugging 1B/LF type. If you're wondering where that last SP/RP comes from, I point out there is nothing above from the hypothetical trades of Anibal, Nolasco, Choate, Infante, and C. Lee. That's why the team needs all pitchers back. The lineup is basically set through 2014 besides a 1 year veteran stopgap here and there with Yelich and Realmuto (top 2 hitting prospects) coming. Use those trade assets to fill out one rotation spot and create more competition for the # 5 rotation spot and back of the bullpen at the same time. Like I said, the trick is shedding Nolasco's salary, or most of it. However alternatively, just add Nolasco to that team above, skimp on LF and call it a day. It's the same basic team payroll wise.

This isn't a blow it all up scenario. The team is underachieving and going to play better. They need to retool by getting rid of expendable guys that can help contenders, and keep everything else as they just really need a CF and more young pitching for improvement.

Then we wait for Yelich, Fernandez, Conley, C. James, Realmuto, and Ozuna (arguably top 6 prospects in the system not named Heaney who was just drafted), who should all be in AA by Summer 2013 and have 2014 ETAs. And hope to god Hanley, Reyes, and Morrison hit like they should. Nothing else they can do with that.

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Guest Vince0926

Hanley sucks. Doesn't live up to contract. Same goes for nolasco, buck, bell, Gaby, gaudin, Webb, Dunn, kearns, and guillen. They need to go.

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Hanley sucks. Doesn't live up to contract. Same goes for nolasco, buck, bell, Gaby, gaudin, Webb, Dunn, kearns, and guillen. They need to go.

 

 

Do you realize what those guys are making?

As for some of the rest of the names, Nolasco is going to be difficult to move and no one wants Buck or Bell.

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Guest Guest

Trading Anibal is a no-brainer at this point. It HAS to be done. He's got an ERA under 4.00, which should bring in some decent young pitching.

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