Report: Marlins open to moving Hanley Ramirez

[Puma]

If we're gonna trade Hanley even though we should focus on pitching I would hope we could at least get a hitter to be included in a deal even if he's not the centerpiece....maybe a guy like Grant Green?

[Sumlit]

If we're gonna trade Hanley even though we should focus on pitching I would hope we could at least get a hitter to be included in a deal even if he's not the centerpiece....maybe a guy like Grant Green?

 

 

Hanley gets you pitching, and JJ if traded gets you hitting.

[Sirspud]

Hanley has never been what the Marlins tried to force him to be. He was never capable of playing SS at a high level and he was never capable of being the offensive centerpiece for a team with legitimate aspirations.

 

We had a HOF capable middle of the order bat entering the prime of his career, but we traded him and made Hanley our centerpiece player. Stupid move.

 

This is a horrible post considering he has three .900 OPS seasons after Cabrera left.

 

The dude was the definition of an offensive center piece.

 

There is way more to being an offensive center piece than OPS. I look at Miguel Cabrera's numbers and I see dominance all around, while Hanley has only had a single 100 RBI season, something that even Jorge Cantu managed to do twice in his career.

Cabrera had a homer rate of 1/19.4 with runners on, while Hanley was only 1/26. Hanley's career OPS with runners on was .468, while Cabrera manages .958, 90 points higher. The fact if the matter is that Hanley was a good hitter who was miscast as a middle order guy, while Cabrera is HOF caliber (that has been apparent from his second year.)

RBI's are not relevant.

 

He wasn't as good a hitter as Miguel Cabrera. I never said that. But he was an exceptional hitter. A top 10, if not top 5, hitter in baseball for a 4 year period. He hit well with runners on, in scoring position and runners on with two outs.

 

These past two years were mediocre but don't pretend like 07-10 didn't happen. He was elite.

 

Maybe Hanley's decline in production was a surprise to you but it wasn't to me. Hanley has always had questions about his work ethic and real commitment, along with a tendency to get banged up (though not majorly injured), along with a change in roles from primarily a table setter, where he could take whatever approach he wanted and try for whatever he wanted to do as long as he was productive, to having to do specific things to make the whole offense work. Hanley was pretty good in 2009, no doubt, but he became a pretty average hitter after that, even though he was the centerpiece of the lineup every day where average is simply not good enough.

 

I saw a fall off in Hanley for a while, and most people will remember pretty clearly how I have been critical of Hanley for years. And I know the same crowd that thinks RBI's are irrelevant (because actual run production doesn't affect the outcome of games, of course, especially when you are the guy in the lineup primarily responsible for that)will think I just had a vendetta about Hanley, but I've pretty much been spot on about the way this team and its players would perform for years. I predicted Maybin & Miller would flame out (and also that Maybin would continue to suck even after some declared he had turned a corner lastyear), that Willingham would have a far more production career than Hermida, that Buck would flame, that Willis would fall off a cliff, that Cabrera would continue HOF production, that Ross would be a playoff superstar if he ever made it there, that Volstad would bomb, that Nunez wouldn't be an effective closer. Most of you criticised me for expressing a lot of these things, but I've been right about most of them while a lot of you continued citing numbers that you felt proved the opposite.

 

You statheads really have never proven anything with me because you don't see beyond them. I've seen this team be one of the laughing stocks of the league for the last 6-7 years, meanwhile most of you statheads were just fine putting your rubber stamp on a lot of really terrible decisions. I've pretty much moved on from the Marlins because they've gotten rid of all but two or three players in the entire organization that were fun to root for. These days I'm too busy creating things that have a positive impact on the world to watch this pathetic organization composed of players whose most generous description at that point could be overrated or underperforming. But when you've been seeing the smoke for years, it's irresistable not to come back when there is a fire in what was supposed to be our great triumph year.

[dim]

C'mon Cincinnati. We all know you want Hanley. Now offer us Billy Hamilton and we can all go on with our lives

 

Seriously though, whether it's the Orioles prospects, or A's prospects, or Dodgers prospects, I'm not excited about any of them. At this point I'd rather just keep Hanley, but it doesn't seem the Marlins want to end this trade deadline with him still on the team.

[Michael]

C'mon Cincinnati. We all know you want Hanley. Now offer us Billy Hamilton and we can all go on with our lives

 

Seriously though, whether it's the Orioles prospects, or A's prospects, or Dodgers prospects, I'm not excited about any of them. At this point I'd rather just keep Hanley, but it doesn't seem the Marlins want to end this trade deadline with him still on the team.

 

Yes, what we need is MORE SPEED! :lol

 

Seriously, though, if Hamilton were to become an outfielder, not jack sh*t would drop in. Ever. "Line drive over the bag at second and it's caught by Hamilton the center fielder. 1 down."

[dim]

Actually, I'm looking at the numbers Scott Rolen is putting up, and they are dreadful, and wondering WHY they actually wouldn't be interested in Hanley. They wouldn't have to give up Hamilton in that kind of trade, and Hanley improves that offense immediately.

[Sirspud]

C'mon Cincinnati. We all know you want Hanley. Now offer us Billy Hamilton and we can all go on with our lives

 

Seriously though, whether it's the Orioles prospects, or A's prospects, or Dodgers prospects, I'm not excited about any of them. At this point I'd rather just keep Hanley, but it doesn't seem the Marlins want to end this trade deadline with him still on the team.

 

Yes, what we need is MORE SPEED! :lol

 

Seriously, though, if Hamilton were to become an outfielder, not jack sh*t would drop in. Ever. "Line drive over the bag at second and it's caught by Hamilton the center fielder. 1 down."

 

I'm not up on Hamilton's performance in the last month or so, but last I had heard he was doing pretty well all around offensively.

[Michael]

C'mon Cincinnati. We all know you want Hanley. Now offer us Billy Hamilton and we can all go on with our lives

 

Seriously though, whether it's the Orioles prospects, or A's prospects, or Dodgers prospects, I'm not excited about any of them. At this point I'd rather just keep Hanley, but it doesn't seem the Marlins want to end this trade deadline with him still on the team.

 

Yes, what we need is MORE SPEED! :lol

 

Seriously, though, if Hamilton were to become an outfielder, not jack sh*t would drop in. Ever. "Line drive over the bag at second and it's caught by Hamilton the center fielder. 1 down."

 

I'm not up on Hamilton's performance in the last month or so, but last I had heard he was doing pretty well all around offensively.

Dem steals, man, dem steals.

 

No power, but dem steals.

 

 

I believe he'll break Rickey's single season record. :o

[dim]

The kid is untouchable. 112 SB's in 93 games and gets on base at over .400 clip. He'll be in the majors come September and be the world's best pinch runner.

 

121 hits, 112 SB's. That is just unreal.

[Anonymous]

Hanley has never been what the Marlins tried to force him to be. He was never capable of playing SS at a high level and he was never capable of being the offensive centerpiece for a team with legitimate aspirations.

 

We had a HOF capable middle of the order bat entering the prime of his career, but we traded him and made Hanley our centerpiece player. Stupid move.

 

This is a horrible post considering he has three .900 OPS seasons after Cabrera left.

 

The dude was the definition of an offensive center piece.

 

There is way more to being an offensive center piece than OPS. I look at Miguel Cabrera's numbers and I see dominance all around, while Hanley has only had a single 100 RBI season, something that even Jorge Cantu managed to do twice in his career.

Cabrera had a homer rate of 1/19.4 with runners on, while Hanley was only 1/26. Hanley's career OPS with runners on was .468, while Cabrera manages .958, 90 points higher. The fact if the matter is that Hanley was a good hitter who was miscast as a middle order guy, while Cabrera is HOF caliber (that has been apparent from his second year.)

RBI's are not relevant.

 

He wasn't as good a hitter as Miguel Cabrera. I never said that. But he was an exceptional hitter. A top 10, if not top 5, hitter in baseball for a 4 year period. He hit well with runners on, in scoring position and runners on with two outs.

 

These past two years were mediocre but don't pretend like 07-10 didn't happen. He was elite.

 

Maybe Hanley's decline in production was a surprise to you but it wasn't to me. Hanley has always had questions about his work ethic and real commitment, along with a tendency to get banged up (though not majorly injured), along with a change in roles from primarily a table setter, where he could take whatever approach he wanted and try for whatever he wanted to do as long as he was productive, to having to do specific things to make the whole offense work. Hanley was pretty good in 2009, no doubt, but he became a pretty average hitter after that, even though he was the centerpiece of the lineup every day where average is simply not good enough.

 

I saw a fall off in Hanley for a while, and most people will remember pretty clearly how I have been critical of Hanley for years. And I know the same crowd that thinks RBI's are irrelevant (because actual run production doesn't affect the outcome of games, of course, especially when you are the guy in the lineup primarily responsible for that)will think I just had a vendetta about Hanley, but I've pretty much been spot on about the way this team and its players would perform for years. I predicted Maybin & Miller would flame out (and also that Maybin would continue to suck even after some declared he had turned a corner lastyear), that Willingham would have a far more production career than Hermida, that Buck would flame, that Willis would fall off a cliff, that Cabrera would continue HOF production, that Ross would be a playoff superstar if he ever made it there, that Volstad would bomb, that Nunez wouldn't be an effective closer. Most of you criticised me for expressing a lot of these things, but I've been right about most of them while a lot of you continued citing numbers that you felt proved the opposite.

 

You statheads really have never proven anything with me because you don't see beyond them. I've seen this team be one of the laughing stocks of the league for the last 6-7 years, meanwhile most of you statheads were just fine putting your rubber stamp on a lot of really terrible decisions. I've pretty much moved on from the Marlins because they've gotten rid of all but two or three players in the entire organization that were fun to root for. These days I'm too busy creating things that have a positive impact on the world to watch this pathetic organization composed of players whose most generous description at that point could be overrated or underperforming. But when you've been seeing the smoke for years, it's irresistable not to come back when there is a fire in what was supposed to be our great triumph year.

I don't really care for your post because most of it was just you rambling. I'm just going to address the Hanley issue.

 

I call BS on that. You were non stop complaining about him for years even though you were wrong. You most definitely did not see this coming. You, or anyone for that matter, did not hint that Hanley will fall off a cliff. You kept rambling on about how he cannot hit with RISP and you were continuously proven wrong about it. Yet sure enough the next time Hanley's name was brought up, you mentioned it again.

 

You were wrong then, and you still are today. He has fallen off but like I said, stop pretending he was not elite from 07-10. He was elite.

[Hanley2Ramirez]

Actually, I'm looking at the numbers Scott Rolen is putting up, and they are dreadful, and wondering WHY they actually wouldn't be interested in Hanley. They wouldn't have to give up Hamilton in that kind of trade, and Hanley improves that offense immediately.

 

 

They have their everyday 3B in Todd Frazier when votto comes back. No chance they are interested

[Sirspud]

Seriously though, whether it's the Orioles prospects, or A's prospects, or Dodgers prospects, I'm not excited about any of them. At this point I'd rather just keep Hanley, but it doesn't seem the Marlins want to end this trade deadline with him still on the team.

 

 

Kind of the same way I felt about Cabrera. We were trading a guy with HOF performance in his career before he even hit his peak. I knew we were trading a guy who was going to be part of baseball history for players who statisically had a very little chance of being elite for even one year was just depressing, and the fact that we got two prospects (and practically a dozen nobodies) who though highly rated also had significant question marks and reason to doubt them just made it worse.

 

Hanley was once considered an elite player so I can understand why you would feel that way, but I feel the opposite about this if we could get reasonable value. It just sounds to me that its pretty doubtful we can get that.

[Sirspud]

I don't really care for your post because most of it was just you rambling. I'm just going to address the Hanley issue.

 

I call BS on that. You were non stop complaining about him for years even though you were wrong. You most definitely did not see this coming. You, or anyone for that matter, did not hint that Hanley will fall off a cliff. You kept rambling on about how he cannot hit with RISP and you were continuously proven wrong about it. Yet sure enough the next time Hanley's name was brought up, you mentioned it again.

 

You were wrong then, and you still are today. He has fallen off but like I said, stop pretending he was not elite from 07-10. He was elite.

 

 

Hanley was elite as a hitter, and may have stayed that way had we asked him to continue to be a table setter instead of a middle of the order hitter.

[Anonymous]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter. He was elite in the middle of the order.

[Michael]

I don't really care for your post because most of it was just you rambling. I'm just going to address the Hanley issue.

 

I call BS on that. You were non stop complaining about him for years even though you were wrong. You most definitely did not see this coming. You, or anyone for that matter, did not hint that Hanley will fall off a cliff. You kept rambling on about how he cannot hit with RISP and you were continuously proven wrong about it. Yet sure enough the next time Hanley's name was brought up, you mentioned it again.

 

You were wrong then, and you still are today. He has fallen off but like I said, stop pretending he was not elite from 07-10. He was elite.

 

 

Hanley was elite as a hitter, and may have stayed that way had we asked him to continue to be a table setter instead of a middle of the order hitter.

If, somehow, someway, 2007 Hanley could return ... .330+ average, 29 homers, 81 RBI [would be over 100 batting third] and 50+ steals ...

 

Won't happen, especially the steals, but ... would be awesome.

[Sirspud]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter.

 

 

No, he didn't.

[Michael]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter.

 

 

No, he didn't.

Well, he did have back to back .900 OPS seasons, but, correct, one was predominately lead-off.

[Sirspud]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter.

 

 

No, he didn't.

Well, he did have back to back .900 OPS seasons, but, correct, one was predominately lead-off.

 

He also had back to back .900 ops seasons as a leadoff hitter before that third season where he finally hit third full time.

[Anonymous]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter.

 

 

No, he didn't.

What Mike said was correct. Not back to back seasons, but he has his highest OPS batting third in 09.

[Michael]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter.

 

 

No, he didn't.

Well, he did have back to back .900 OPS seasons, but, correct, one was predominately lead-off.

 

He also had back to back .900 ops seasons as a leadoff hitter before that third season where he finally hit third full time.

Oh, shoot, I missed that, yeah he did. Wow.

Well, like I said, 2007 Hanley would be primo. Also hit .307 with RISP that year.

Although 09 Hanley hit .373 with RISP ... Hmm.

[Sirspud]

He had back to back .900 OPS seasons as a number three hitter.

 

 

No, he didn't.

Well, he did have back to back .900 OPS seasons, but, correct, one was predominately lead-off.

 

He also had back to back .900 ops seasons as a leadoff hitter before that third season where he finally hit third full time.

Oh, shoot, I missed that, yeah he did. Wow.

Well, like I said, 2007 Hanley would be primo. Also hit .307 with RISP that year.

Although 09 Hanley hit .373 with RISP ... Hmm.

 

Yep he did, which is very inconsistent with what he has done in nearly every other year of his career (I believe in 1 or 2 other years at most he hit better with runners on than without). I don't tend to base my assessments of a player based on their one fluke year when the rest of their history contradicts that.

 

Edit- just looked at last year and he actually dramatically outperformed himself with runners on than without. But as much better as he was last year, he is equally as worse this year, and his career still shows he OPS's 50 points higher without runners on.

[Hanley2Ramirez]

I dont know if I would be extremely disappointed with a Johnathan Schoop, Arietta deal

[Michael]

New development ...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/marlins/story/2012-07-24/Hanley-Ramirez-trade/56469370/1?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=449762

 

"Hanley Ramirez must go, Marlins executives decide"

 

 

Doesn't that kinda take leverage away from us if our FO WANTS him gone?

[AeroFishOne]

I'd like to see him go to Toronto.

 

Oh and if the source is correct. Hanley must be a bitch to be around lately even the ownership wants him gone.

[Hotcorner]

yeah saw Baseball Tonight reporting that too & everyone seems to suggest Oakland is first in line...