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I was told today by an employee of another professional sports team in town that the Marlins have only sold 6,000 tickets for OPENING NIGHT. Even after the worst fire sales before, the team always drew over 30k for the home opener.

 

A. Does anybody know if this is true?

and

B. Will this send enough of a message to Loria/Samson that changes their behavior?

 

I mean, if that stadium is less than half full for the opener....it will be a national embarassment as bad as the trades.

 

Anyone have an idea how many season tickets they've sold this year?

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I think they will be lucky to get 15k for opening day.

 

From all I read, fans truly are pissed this time and they will show it by their absence at all games.

 

and if, by some miracle, we're winning in August, "Loria is a great owner. He knows what he's doing."orrr the fans would be going to support the players while feeling awful for giving Loria any money.

the longer the fans don't show up, the more money he loses, the quicker he sells the team. which is what EVERYONE wants

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Even if attendance is poor, it's not going to make a difference to Loria/Samson. Keep in mind that even before they open the doors, they're bringing in a good $30-40 mil in revenue sharing, plus another $10-12 million (maybe more) that all teams are receiving as part of MLB's national TV deals.

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Even if attendance is poor, it's not going to make a difference to Loria/Samson. Keep in mind that even before they open the doors, they're bringing in a good $30-40 mil in revenue sharing, plus another $10-12 million (maybe more) that all teams are receiving as part of MLB's national TV deals.

 

They get closer to 30-40 mil in national tv and that figure goes up to I believe over 50 mil once the new tv deals kick in.

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I think they will be lucky to get 15k for opening day.

 

From all I read, fans truly are pissed this time and they will show it by their absence at all games.

 

and if, by some miracle, we're winning in August, "Loria is a great owner. He knows what he's doing."orrr the fans would be going to support the players while feeling awful for giving Loria any money.

the longer the fans don't show up, the more money he loses, the quicker he sells the team. which is what EVERYONE wants

 

The less fans that show, the less money he makes the more the Yankees have to pay Loria. It is twisted baseball economics and Loria plays it better than anyone, thus, no one sits with him at the owner's meeting.

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Even if attendance is poor, it's not going to make a difference to Loria/Samson. Keep in mind that even before they open the doors, they're bringing in a good $30-40 mil in revenue sharing, plus another $10-12 million (maybe more) that all teams are receiving as part of MLB's national TV deals.

 

They get closer to 30-40 mil in national tv and that figure goes up to I believe over 50 mil once the new tv deals kick in.

My point exactly.

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According to that meeting on Monday with "selected media" people........

 

12K season tickets were sold last year instead of the advertised 17K.

Attendance last year was closer to 1.4 mil (an average of about 17.3K per game) instead of the advertised 2.2 mil (27K per game).

The team lost "tens of millions of $$$" last year.

About 5K season tickets have been sold this year.

 

It's hard to tell how much of this to actually believe, with the exception of the amount of STs sold this year. Even that I would think is high. But I would guess the actual numbers from last season are somewhere in between. They screwed up royally by openly going after a particular customer base instead of the entire customer base, to the point of insulting that base. How they don't realize this is beyond a sane person's comprehension.

 

Of course it is easy to see why they selected what media members could attend. Why open it up and have to answer the tough questions from media people that could care in the least if they are ever invited back, or that have negative views of this org?

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Attendance last year was closer to 1.4 mil (an average of about 17.3K per game) instead of the advertised 2.2 mil

 

They had hoped for 2.8 mill PAID attendance, they got 2.2 mill PAID.

 

No matter, PAID attendance isn't worth sh!t if they don't actually show up.

 

The actual TURNSTILE CLICKS, actual bodies in the park were 1.4 mill -- that's HALF of what they expected for the year -- which also cuts parking and concession revenue in half. That number is shockingly bad. It knocks all of their other assumed revenue numbers into a cocked hat.

 

They were red-hot in May and still the "fans" didn't show up. Is there a fan problem? I think there is, regardless of whether it's in Miami or north of Miami.

 

They lost a sh!tload of money last year, probably 30-40 mill. No surprise at all that they're trying to avoid an even bigger loss this year, and have succeeded in doing so by dumping the losers of last year for new talent.

 

I'm thinking that I shall once again have to lay out in detail the very high operating costs of an MLB franchise. Which, contrary to what some of the unmitigated, reflexive Loria-hating morons on this board think about MLB revenue sharing and TV contracts doesn't guarantee Loria anything other than a loss, absent decent turnstile clicks.

 

Loria may actually have gotten a beautiful stadium built for a market which simply doesn't give a crap whether he or someone else owns the franchise. I hope not, but it remains to be seen. Certainly a tough market. Doesn't seem to be as tolerant as, say, Chicago where they put up with a FO that hasn't won a WS in over 100 years.

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You can't really fault the Marlins FO for the lack of turnout. South Florida is just a terrible baseball town. It was pretty clear in April and May (when the team was intact and not a complete abomination), that the fans just weren't going to show up.

 

However, projecting 2.8 million paid seems like an erroneous overestimation. Expecting 34,500/night in South Florida is a bit of a pipe dream.

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South Florida is just a terrible baseball town. It was pretty clear in April and May (when the team was intact and not a complete abomination), that the fans just weren't going to show up.

 

Yup, they were 29-22 and a half-game out of 1st on May 31, 2012.

 

All downhill from there, but attendance still continued to suck. Which is why I raise the question of whether Loria or anyone else can prevail no matter what happens.

 

If nobody shows up even when you win, it's a question for Bud, not Loria.

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exactly and it's a cycle that just keeps spinning

 

there was no band aid approach to the marketplace - however, this ownership seems completely tone deaf to their surroundings .... even now talking about great support at a food & wine function of people coming up to Loria .... Jeff - the people approaching you at a food & wine function aren't exactly a great sample of who you need to sell your product to and using their words to prop your position is confirmation bias in the most extreme

 

if they estimated 30,000 bodies in that building on average then they were nuts ... that simply wasn't going to happen ... it could happen over time, but I believe this group has pretty much killed that possibility ... I think with a competative team and a measured approach they could have had 2M bodies go into that building last year

 

i thnk he's starting to realize how big the chasm is between the team and community and he's being aggressive in defending the team position .... which honestly, comes off really poorly and probably isn't helping anything at this point in time ... if anything, it's just making things worse by giving another opportunity for the media to lay into him ... it's not like they have sterling coverage to begin with (palm beach post still has a poll on their main page about if the marlins should trade josh johnson if they get a good offer this offseason)

 

At this point I'm not sure if this thing can be reconciled .... the team is going to be lousy for a while .... I know we as fans want to be surprised and the plucky underdog can sell .... but realistically this team is running towards astros territory .... even if they do become good, there is zero trust that they will stay good ... it's very hard to get invested and make this team worth your time

 

I'm really not sure what could be done at this point to regain public trust and start moving forward in a positive direction .... obviously taking care of Stanton would be a good first step to many of us

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According to that meeting on Monday with "selected media" people........

 

12K season tickets were sold last year instead of the advertised 17K.

Attendance last year was closer to 1.4 mil (an average of about 17.3K per game) instead of the advertised 2.2 mil (27K per game).

The team lost "tens of millions of $$$" last year.

About 5K season tickets have been sold this year.

 

It's hard to tell how much of this to actually believe, with the exception of the amount of STs sold this year. Even that I would think is high. But I would guess the actual numbers from last season are somewhere in between. They screwed up royally by openly going after a particular customer base instead of the entire customer base, to the point of insulting that base. How they don't realize this is beyond a sane person's comprehension.

 

Of course it is easy to see why they selected what media members could attend. Why open it up and have to answer the tough questions from media people that could care in the least if they are ever invited back, or that have negative views of this org?

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they sold 2.2m tickets but only 1.4m people went. there were hundreds of tickets going for under $1 for the last few months of the season

 

they screwed up royally, alright

 

From what I have read, that's not what he said. Maybe it's what he meant, but....

 

If his numbers are accurate, do the math. 12K season tickets figures out at 972K paid attendance to start with. Now you are saying another 1.2 mil (or so) tickets were sold that didn't bother to show up? For "walk up ticket sales" that didn't bother to show up, that seems a bit high to me.

 

Those hundreds of tickets you speak of were mainly season ticket holders selling off their seats. Not people going out and buying single game tickets just so they could sell them at a loss.

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