Jump to content

Loria leads fractured organization


pollythewog

Recommended Posts

I love the part in the article where Jennings will take over if Beinfest is fired or resigns. Jennings was partly responsible for the Rays sucking soooo much for their first 10 years and he's been in charge of player development here for too many years.

 

 

I seem to remember a scene from The Franchise where Jennings got super excited about the Cox/Mujica trade. Like it was an utter steal for the Marlins. That tells you a lot about him right there.

 

But yeah, this organization is a joke.

 

 

Not just from the Franchise, but I get the impression that Jennings is worse than Hill/Beinfest. If he's a Loria guy, then that's a bad sign.

 

I want to know who was the brilliant mind behind the Carlos Lee trade and have him fired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't it obvious?

 

What we need is an owner who doesn't give a crap about losing 50 mill/per year, ad infinitum and will spend regardless of results. Loria is not that guy. Problem is, that guy probably doesn't exist.

 

Loria could sell tomorrow and the next guy is gonna struggle with the same lousy attendance and revenue for at least a decade, if not forever.

 

The good news is that they (and everyone else) will have 24-25 mill more to spend next year from the new TV deal. Plus the 8 mill they don't have to send to TOR. 32-33 mill ought to buy a bat or two.

 

 

You can have an owner who cares about losing 50/mil year, doesn't spend a lot and yet doesn't dictate every FO move. It's one thing to be a cheap owner, but being owner who vetoes call-ups just because the player in question had a dispute with his hand-picked (without the manager's approval) hitting coach is something completely else.

 

The Marlins don't necessarily need an owner who spends. They need one who shuts the fuck up and stays out of the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the part in the article where Jennings will take over if Beinfest is fired or resigns. Jennings was partly responsible for the Rays sucking soooo much for their first 10 years and he's been in charge of player development here for too many years.

 

 

I seem to remember a scene from The Franchise where Jennings got super excited about the Cox/Mujica trade. Like it was an utter steal for the Marlins. That tells you a lot about him right there.

 

But yeah, this organization is a joke.

 

 

Not just from the Franchise, but I get the impression that Jennings is worse than Hill/Beinfest. If he's a Loria guy, then that's a bad sign.

 

I want to know who was the brilliant mind behind the Carlos Lee trade and have him fired.

 

 

 

 

You don't think it was Loria?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That type of uncertainty is why I can't really blame Beinfest for anything here. I know that's odd to say but it's tough to know what moves he made that weren't influenced by Loria.

 

Having said that, I do hope we fire him. It's best for everyone at this point. He'll secure another job as a GM or President of Baseball Operations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This franchise has been crippled by crummy attendance from day one. Wayne won once because he spent big (unsustainable) money and got lucky. Loria won once only because he got lucky.

 

Who cares if some AAA guy or another wasn't called up? It's a minor, meaningless decision. And nobody here has any idea of how many goofy decisions have been made elsewhere. The real problem is that Lora is a Steinbrenner without pockets so deep that nobody cares about his quirks.

 

The next guy is going to have the same problems every owner has had, with the exception of getting a stadium built. Loria could sell tomorrow (not likely) and the new owner would be trashed within a year of having the same old crummy attendance.

 

Why the need to place blame? Drafting is a crap-shoot. Trades are a crap-shoot. FAs are a crap-shoot. Signing young players to long-term deals is a crap-shoot. Signing anyone to anything is a crap-shoot. We now know that even building a stadium is a crap-shoot.

 

The best assessor of talent in the world can wind up being a goat for reasons entirely beyond his control.

 

Beyond the tendency (and it's only a tendency) of big payrolls to win more rather than less, baseball is a random game of eights of an inch, not inches. Routine fly ball versus HR. Catching a ball versus not. Ball versus strike. Injury versus not.

 

Since the Marlins are unlikely to ever be owned by a baseball genius, the only hope is the mythical guy who doesn't care about losing 50 mill/year. Even if he existed, he'd still get trashed. 29 years out of 30, on average. More often, with a history like the Cubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we need to decide if we are going to continue to be run like an old style baseball team, where the only way to win is to get lucky on a few players, and buy some expensive free agents. Or if we are finally going to be a successful small market team, ala the rays, or A's. It can be done, and we have 2 very good models to work off of, and the best part is we are in a less competitive division than either. We can win with a similar payroll, give or take 20-30 million dollars. We can be a viable team every year, we just need to have the foresight to do it. Loria is clearly interested in winning, if he was smart he would try to bring in people who understand how to win without high payrolls, guys from the two models and make a collaborative front office designed to take advantage of every inefficiency. I believe we can do it with 40-60 million dollars a year, and if we win, which we should, we will be able to sustain that kind of payroll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The sun rising in the east. Death. Taxes. ... defending Loria.

 

It's good to know there are things in life you can count on.

 

Ah, that wasn't a defense of Loria. Read it again while trying to restrain your knee from jerking.

I read it correctly the first time. In summary, you concluded that baseball in South Florida won't succeed consistently because the fanbase won't provide enough revenue. Without sufficient revenue, the FO will be hobbled and incapable of making the necessary transactions to react to the natural vicissitudes of the sport.

 

But by shifting blame from Loria to the fanbase, you took a page out of Loria's own playbook. Despite your protestations, that WAS a defense of Loria. A weak one, but a defense nonetheless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This franchise has been crippled by crummy attendance from day one. Wayne won once because he spent big (unsustainable) money and got lucky. Loria won once only because he got lucky.

 

Who cares if some AAA guy or another wasn't called up? It's a minor, meaningless decision. And nobody here has any idea of how many goofy decisions have been made elsewhere. The real problem is that Lora is a Steinbrenner without pockets so deep that nobody cares about his quirks.

 

The next guy is going to have the same problems every owner has had, with the exception of getting a stadium built. Loria could sell tomorrow (not likely) and the new owner would be trashed within a year of having the same old crummy attendance.

 

Why the need to place blame? Drafting is a crap-shoot. Trades are a crap-shoot. FAs are a crap-shoot. Signing young players to long-term deals is a crap-shoot. Signing anyone to anything is a crap-shoot. We now know that even building a stadium is a crap-shoot.

 

The best assessor of talent in the world can wind up being a goat for reasons entirely beyond his control.

 

Beyond the tendency (and it's only a tendency) of big payrolls to win more rather than less, baseball is a random game of eights of an inch, not inches. Routine fly ball versus HR. Catching a ball versus not. Ball versus strike. Injury versus not.

 

Since the Marlins are unlikely to ever be owned by a baseball genius, the only hope is the mythical guy who doesn't care about losing 50 mill/year. Even if he existed, he'd still get trashed. 29 years out of 30, on average. More often, with a history like the Cubs.

 

 

Sometimes you either miss the bigger picture or just don't want to recognize it. The issue with the AAA player getting a call up wasn't about the actual move itself. It is a microcosm of how this team is run. That is the issue.

 

Everyone knows the attendance will be bad. This is a bandwagon town. Not even the Dolphins have been able to sell out minimal home games. Fortunately small market teams can still compete if run properly. There are plenty of obvious examples. We are not one of those. That falls on how the organization runs, and some bad luck. The goal is to control what you can control, and deal with the bad luck. We suck on both ends.

 

Drafting is a crap-shoot. So then trading established players for those crap-shots makes for a bad decision. The marlins need to sign those successful draft picks much earlier to friendly deals. Instead of trading one of the greatest hitters in baseball, for crap-shots, this team should have locked him up early. Instead of waiting for stanton to hit arbitration they should have locked him up. They are going to do the same s*** with fernandez.

 

Your last little bit there is just dumb. Who here doesn't want the best owner in all of sports to buy the marlins? Who here doesn't want him to also be a baseball genius? We don't even have the middle ground here. We have the worst owner in baseball. The absolute worst. Give me an average owner, please. Someone who hires baseball minds, and then lets them do their job. So tired of this micromanaging BS. I really feel bad for Beinfest and the rest of the FO.

 

 

Exactly. The question still stands Is Beinfest right for the job. I feel he isn't able to make us a viable team, he would be more suited to run an organization like the rangers or Angels, who have a little more capital to spend. I have always felt that the decision not to offer contracts to players till arbitration was on him, not necessarily on Loria. It is because of this that makes me think it might be better to restart, get young intelligent minds from the depths of baseball front offices, and make an ambitious new front office. Designed to not only follow intelligent models already in existence, but able to take new baseball knowledge and apply it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, I agree with squall 100%.

 

 

Same here.

 

Also, if Dietrich wasn't injured and Loria had blocked him from getting called up despite raking AA for his 85 ABs there then that is downright despicable and far more egregious than the Velazquez thing. The point is he's meddling with the team in ways he has no business doing. I don't get why ... can't get that through his head, but whatever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, I agree with squall 100%.

 

Same here.

 

Also, if Dietrich wasn't injured and Loria had blocked him from getting called up despite raking AA for his 85 ABs there then that is downright despicable and far more egregious than the Velazquez thing. The point is he's meddling with the team in ways he has no business doing. I don't get why ... can't get that through his head, but whatever85 at bats and be was raking in AA?

 

 

10/200!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, I agree with squall 100%.

 

Same here.

 

Also, if Dietrich wasn't injured and Loria had blocked him from getting called up despite raking AA for his 85 ABs there then that is downright despicable and far more egregious than the Velazquez thing. The point is he's meddling with the team in ways he has no business doing. I don't get why ... can't get that through his head, but whatever85 at bats and be was raking in AA?

 

 

10/200!!!!

 

 

 

 

You're clearly missing the point. Donovan Solano is our current 2b. Donovan Solano.

 

The fact that Dietrich turned it around in AA in his last 85 ABs is at least encouraging. I'm not sold on the guy or think he's the solution, but I'd much rather see what he can do then send the .600 OPS guy out there every day who is below replacement level. Loria throwing a hissy fit cause DD quarreled with his hand picked guy is bull s*** anyway you swing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who cares if some AAA guy or another wasn't called up? It's a minor, meaningless decision. And nobody here has any idea of how many goofy decisions have been made elsewhere. The real problem is that Lora is a Steinbrenner without pockets so deep that nobody cares about his quirks.

 

 

I used that example to show how petty and meddling Loria is. Did that decision have dire consequences? No, not really, but it shows to what great lengths Loria will go to intervene.

 

However, there have been countless examples of decisions that Loria has made that have not been so minor or meaningless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“There is concern among some of the folks in uniform that Loria is creating a problem with José Fernández that could become similar to what the Marlins had with Hanley Ramírez,� Olney wrote in his column today. Ramírez, as Marlins fans know too well, was traded to Los Angeles in July of last year—and now he’s helping the Dodgers march into the playoffs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“There is concern among some of the folks in uniform that Loria is creating a problem with José Fernández that could become similar to what the Marlins had with Hanley Ramírez,� Olney wrote in his column today. Ramírez, as Marlins fans know too well, was traded to Los Angeles in July of last year—and now he’s helping the Dodgers march into the playoffs.

 

 

What does that even mean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“There is concern among some of the folks in uniform that Loria is creating a problem with José Fernández that could become similar to what the Marlins had with Hanley Ramírez,� Olney wrote in his column today. Ramírez, as Marlins fans know too well, was traded to Los Angeles in July of last year—and now he’s helping the Dodgers march into the playoffs.

 

 

What does that even mean?

 

 

Olney could have provided an example. What problems were created with Hanley, other than buying him gifts and watching him underperform, not care and become a clubhouse problem until there was no choice but to let him go. I can't blame that on Loria.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, I agree with squall 100%.

 

Same here.

 

Also, if Dietrich wasn't injured and Loria had blocked him from getting called up despite raking AA for his 85 ABs there then that is downright despicable and far more egregious than the Velazquez thing. The point is he's meddling with the team in ways he has no business doing. I don't get why ... can't get that through his head, but whatever85 at bats and be was raking in AA?

 

 

10/200!!!!

 

 

You're clearly missing the point. Donovan Solano is our current 2b. Donovan Solano.

 

The fact that Dietrich turned it around in AA in his last 85 ABs is at least encouraging. I'm not sold on the guy or think he's the solution, but I'd much rather see what he can do then send the .600 OPS guy out there every day who is below replacement level. Loria throwing a hissy fit cause DD quarreled with his hand picked guy is bull s*** anyway you swing it.

 

YOUR wrong. Your clearly missing my sarcasm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...