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Beinfest, Fleming fired


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Most catchers don't really command huge salaries

Yadi is the 2nd highest paid catcher at 14 million

I don't even put Mauer's contract in the mix at 23 million

McCann makes 11 million

Salty would be OK at 8-8.5 million per year

 

I have a feeling he will get $10-12 Mill per year depending on length (4/45 or 5/50).

 

Again Erick, any projection?

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Just sign McCann, I see no reason he won't sign here if we offer a fair deal so let's get it done.

 

 

Admin I'm not sure anyone will do that unless they are given a contract that has a no-trade or at least gives them some control as a no-trade-to-this-team clause in their contract. Loria has said he won't give no-trades, so I'm thinking he has to way overpay (not bloody likely) or settle for more Greg Dobbs's and that's not likely to bring you a real winner. Loria and his priggish ways are going to cost him wins or money in his wallet and who knows, maybe both.

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I would give him no more than 2/15. I don't know what his market value is but I doubt it's much more than that.

 

I guess I would overpay a s*** load for him...

 

But it would be worth it IMO.

 

 

Isn't the point of overpaying that it's NOT worth it?

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Just sign McCann, I see no reason he won't sign here if we offer a fair deal so let's get it done.

 

 

Admin I'm not sure anyone will do that unless they are given a contract that has a no-trade or at least gives them some control as a no-trade-to-this-team clause in their contract. Loria has said he won't give no-trades, so I'm thinking he has to way overpay (not bloody likely) or settle for more Greg Dobbs's and that's not likely to bring you a real winner. Loria and his priggish ways are going to cost him wins or money in his wallet and who knows, maybe both.

 

 

I'm not sure even a no trade clause would work right now, given our ownership's reputation. This FO "shakeup" isn't going to fool anyone. Loria is getting his yes men in place from the top of the FO down to the manager and coaching staff. I just don't see any FA worth his weight will want to come here regardless of the money and length of contract. "Upgrades" at any position will have to come in trades. FA signings will be over the hill guys wanting to extend their careers, or near over the hill guys trying to prove to other teams they still have some worth.

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I am actually more interested with what McCann salary demands will be in reference to what ATL will offer

He is already at 11.5 million He is a 7 time All Star 5 times Silver Slugger Award Winner, he is currently making about 11.5 million

I am sure he wants a decent pay raise and a solid long term contract (He will be 30 y/o in January). The problem is that he is nowhere near Yadi Molina as a catcher defensively or as a hitter (this season) and Yadi is only making 14 million a year.

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If Miggy were still here, he would:

1- Be making $25MM a year

2- Be pushing 300 lbs

3- Be hitting maybe .280

4- Be a part time 1B, and

5- Be untradeable

Cancer is often fatal.

LB did what he had to do, and Maybin & LHP just didn't pan out.

Such is life.

 

Nothing you said is accurate.agree with marlin2266. Miggy would not be the player he is if he'd stayed in miami. The lousy and sparse crowds would've caused him to lose interest. He never would have matured here and dedicated himself to make the most of his God-given talents here.

 

That's not surprising considering you're a troll.

 

Nah. Not a troll. Just a battered Marlins fan who's had enough of Loria and can't understand how some people can have a shred of optimism about this franchise with Loria at the helm.

 

Guys like Miggy, Hanley and yes, Stanton have a hard time maximizing their potential given the poor fan support and the tumultuous ownership. Hitting a baseball requires extreme concentration and it is hard to be great if you are constantly distracted.

 

I believe that Hanley doesn't put up the numbers he's putting up in LA if we'd kept him, and feel the same to be true with Cabrera.

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I'm not sure even a no trade clause would work right now, given our ownership's reputation. This FO "shakeup" isn't going to fool anyone. Loria is getting his yes men in place from the top of the FO down to the manager and coaching staff. I just don't see any FA worth his weight will want to come here regardless of the money and length of contract. "Upgrades" at any position will have to come in trades.

 

Wait. Now we know the mind-set of every FA who's worth a damn? And why does anybody need to be "fooled" by anything?

 

How about this for a rationale for a FA who's "worth a damn":

 

1) Loria and his yes-men will pay me more than anyone else to come to MIA.

 

2) I don't care about a no-trade clause because I'll rent my house the first year (at least) and if the plan doesn't blow up in Loria's face causing him to blow up the plan, then maybe then I'll buy something. I can be as temporary as Loria wants me to be.

 

3) What do I care, either way? If it doesn't work, I'll be somewhere else with a lot of money in my pocket. After all, once I sign, either Loria and/or someone else has to pay me the full amount of my contract, no matter how ridiculous it is.

 

4) MIA has a stable of very good starters and a good defense and bullpen and probably a good bench. Adding my bat and maybe one or two others could turn them into a contender. They've already got a decent core of bats for next year -- Stanton, Yelich, Morrison, maybe Ozuna -- they just need me and one or two more.

 

You might be right that any improvements will be done via trade(s,) but just about any FA who's "worth a damn" could be enticed if Loria wants to spend some money.

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I would give him no more than 2/15. I don't know what his market value is but I doubt it's much more than that.

 

I guess I would overpay a s*** load for him...

 

But it would be worth it IMO.

 

 

Isn't the point of overpaying that it's NOT worth it?

 

 

 

 

Well, this team will certainly have to make the absolute highest offer to any possible FA in order to acquire them. So if we really wanted a Salty or McCann, we will almost certainly have to overpay. And while it may not be fiscally responsible, it would be worth it to acquire some offense...

 

I hope we bring back Infante. BTW has anyone noticed how good Yunel Escobar has being this year? I mean damn had Beinfest kept him and Dominguez we might have being decent this year.

 

 

I really hope we are not the team that overpays for Infante. Dietrich could be a fine bat, no reason not to give him the opportunity. And we wouldn't have Dietrich if we kept Escobar, which I believe was the right move. Dietrich for 6-7 yrs > Escobar for 2 yrs.

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You might be right that any improvements will be done via trade(s,) but just about any FA who's "worth a damn" could be enticed if Loria wants to spend some money.

 

 

 

This is the key problem with your thesis.

 

Ah, at the point where Loria and his yes-men have offered more money than anyone else offered, it's no longer a thesis.

 

The "if" part was merely a concession to the possibility that Loria might not offer any FA worth having big bucks. The "thesis" part was explaining how it's entirely possible a FA worth having might readily, even eagerly sign, assuming Loria makes an offer he can't refuse.

 

The dollars talk, the rest of it walks.

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You might be right that any improvements will be done via trade(s,) but just about any FA who's "worth a damn" could be enticed if Loria wants to spend some money.

 

 

 

This is the key problem with your thesis.

 

Ah, at the point where Loria and his yes-men have offered more money than anyone else offered, it's no longer a thesis.

 

The "if" part was merely a concession to the possibility that Loria might not offer any FA worth having big bucks. The "thesis" part was explaining how it's entirely possible a FA worth having might readily, even eagerly sign, assuming Loria makes an offer he can't refuse.

 

The dollars talk, the rest of it walks.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree 100% if Loria offers the $ FAs will come. He won't offer the dollars though so this is pretty moot. Reports are a $36m payroll next year. After signing all our arb guys, that leaves roughly $6m to fill the areas the FO has identified as problematic, C, 1b and 3b.

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Moot? Loria won't offer anyone anything?

 

I don't think we know that at this point.

 

It may be true that any improvements are attempted to be done via trade(s) only, but then again, we do know that the Marlins, like everyone else get another 24-25 mill from the league TV deal. And then there's the 8 mill they no longer have to pay TOR. They're still on the hook in '14 for 4 mill for Heath Bar and 1.5 to Ozzie, but that's it. In '15, only 1.5 to Ozzie and then the repercussions from the disastrous '12 spending spree will be over.

 

Now, Loria lost 47 mill last year and probably didn't come close to making it back this year, so it's likely he'll restrain payroll again in '14. But, at the same time, he obviously gains a lot of flexibility -- to the tune of 32-33 mill. So, there is hope that he might spend a bit on FAs.

 

Who knows what the interaction of trades vs FAs vs extending one or more players will result in?

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I hope we bring back Infante. BTW has anyone noticed how good Yunel Escobar has being this year? I mean damn had Beinfest kept him and Dominguez we might have being decent this year.

 

 

I really hope we are not the team that overpays for Infante. Dietrich could be a fine bat, no reason not to give him the opportunity. And we wouldn't have Dietrich if we kept Escobar, which I believe was the right move. Dietrich for 6-7 yrs > Escobar for 2 yrs.

 

 

 

Not really, Beinfest lost that trade, because Escobar is more valuable now.

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I hope we bring back Infante. BTW has anyone noticed how good Yunel Escobar has being this year? I mean damn had Beinfest kept him and Dominguez we might have being decent this year.

 

 

I really hope we are not the team that overpays for Infante. Dietrich could be a fine bat, no reason not to give him the opportunity. And we wouldn't have Dietrich if we kept Escobar, which I believe was the right move. Dietrich for 6-7 yrs > Escobar for 2 yrs.

 

 

 

Not really, Beinfest lost that trade, because Escobar is more valuable now.

 

 

 

 

I completely disagree, Beinfest won that trade so far.

 

Escobar finished the year with a .699 OPS in his age 30 season and was under contract for only 2 years at like $8 Million. Dietrich left here on a bad note, and even then, his OPS was .679 for the year in his age 24 season with 6 more years under club control, 3 for the league minimum. Only a 20 point difference in OPS but Dietrich is much younger and will be here for quite a while.

 

Yunel Escobar > Derek Dietrich in 2013.

 

Yunel Escobar

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Moot? Loria won't offer anyone anything?

 

I don't think we know that at this point.

 

It may be true that any improvements are attempted to be done via trade(s) only, but then again, we do know that the Marlins, like everyone else get another 24-25 mill from the league TV deal. And then there's the 8 mill they no longer have to pay TOR. They're still on the hook in '14 for 4 mill for Heath Bar and 1.5 to Ozzie, but that's it. In '15, only 1.5 to Ozzie and then the repercussions from the disastrous '12 spending spree will be over.

 

Now, Loria lost 47 mill last year and probably didn't come close to making it back this year, so it's likely he'll restrain payroll again in '14. But, at the same time, he obviously gains a lot of flexibility -- to the tune of 32-33 mill. So, there is hope that he might spend a bit on FAs.

 

Who knows what the interaction of trades vs FAs vs extending one or more players will result in?

 

 

Jennings just said that the payroll is going to be in the same range as this year, despite the added $25 million in TV revenue next year. What's the rationale for that?

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