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Post Game 9/24


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Nothing huge, but a 3.81 ERA, 191 IP and 153 K's definitely makes you worth something. Koehler at the moment could probably net us a couple project players at the high A or even AA level. Big Salad is fun to watch pitch but he's likely to never pitch as well as he did this season. I'm 100% ok with keeping him on as our #4/5 pitcher to start next season with Jose hurt, but if we could find a team that would give us even a halfway decent 3B/SS/2B at the high A or AA level and a super super super project pitcher in low A for Koehler, I think we would be happy and the team we'd be trading him to would be happy. Tons of teams are always in need of decent pitchers (*cough*Twins*cough*), so it wouldn't be shocking to see teams express interest in Koehler at the Winter Meetings. Very much doubt he'd be traded since he's a likable personality with a cool nickname :)

 

 

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Big Salad is fun to watch pitch but he's likely to never pitch as well as he did this season.

 

 

Why not? His ERA this year seems indicative of his skill level based on his peripherals. He is what he is, and we aren't in a position to be trading an arm like that if we plan on competing next year.

 

 

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I guess I was speaking more in terms of his early season performance, back when he was posting a 1.99 ERA in mid May. He can be a high 3 ERA guy long term even I feel he's more likely a low to mid 4 ERA guy. I'm just worried with Koehler that when he gets hit he gets hit HARD. He's got that problem that some pitchers have where he could give up 4 or 5 runs in a blink of an eye. He'll look dominant for a couple start stretch and then just have a couple starts where he has his stuff just isn't there.

 

I agree with the fact that to compete NEXT YEAR Koehler needs to be in the rotation, and it's in the teams best interest to keep him in the rotation, but I also believe his value will never be higher than it currently is.

 

 

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Wade LeBlanc is going to the postseason.

 

 

By default.

 

Hand is a young, controllable left-handed starting pitcher with good stuff that has below average but improving command. He's not worth a ton or anything, but he is worth something. I would bet his value isn't much lower than Eovaldi's right now...

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By default.

 

Hand is a young, controllable left-handed starting pitcher with good stuff that has below average but improving command. He's not worth a ton or anything, but he is worth something. I would bet his value isn't much lower than Eovaldi's right now...

 

 

I feel like you don't understand the value of Eovaldi

 

 

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By default.

 

Hand is a young, controllable left-handed starting pitcher with good stuff that has below average but improving command. He's not worth a ton or anything, but he is worth something. I would bet his value isn't much lower than Eovaldi's right now...

 

 

This...it's statements like this that make people not take your comments seriously.

 

Saying Eovaldi and Hand have near similar value is just asinine. Eovaldi had a bad year, that is obvious. But the talent level between Brad Hand and Nathan Eovaldi is like night and day, and this is coming from somebody who has been a Brad Hand apologist since 2010.

 

 

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By default.

 

Hand is a young, controllable left-handed starting pitcher with good stuff that has below average but improving command. He's not worth a ton or anything, but he is worth something. I would bet his value isn't much lower than Eovaldi's right now...

 

 

And you'd be wrong.

 

 

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Why are we even talking about Hand like he is a real pitcher? Best case he becomes Andrew Miller.

 

Eovaldi on the other hand best case could be a solid number 2. He has been improving consistently over the years. I think next year will be a breakout season. He figured out how to throw strikes and not walk many people this year. He figures out the strikeouts. I think we are talking about one of the best one-two punches in the majors. Pending he doesn't have the luck of this year.

 

 

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And you'd be wrong.

 

 

How do you figure? Eovaldi has been "promising" for 3+ years now and hasn't amounted to shit. Hand got his first real opportunity in the majors and went toe to toe with Nate every step of the way.

 

Eovaldi in 33 Starts: 4.37 ERA, .282 BAA, 1.33 WHIP

 

Hand in 16 Starts: 4.33 ERA, .267 BAA, 1.32 WHIP

 

Eovaldi has better velocity and better control, Hand has better stuff and is left-handed. Both are almost the exact same age, literally within 30 days. The big difference in value here? Eovaldi is arb eligible NOW and will be eligible for FA after the 2018 season. Hand is not arb eligible until 2017 and not eligible for FA until 2020. So, I have to disagree here, Eovaldi may be more established but when you factor in performance and club control, they probably have very similar value.

 

 

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Eovaldi is a bigger trade piece than Hand, I don't even need to think about it

 

 

I didn't dispute that. But I would dispute that Eovaldi is grossly more valuable rather than barely more valuable. Eovaldi isn't worth significantly more than Hand, and to say otherwise overrates Eovaldi and underrates Hand IMO. They're very similar pitchers, but one is left-handed with less service time and one throws harder with more experience. I think Eovaldi's trade benefits of velocity and potential are pretty equal to Hand's benefits of suff, throwing hand and service time.

 

 

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You guys realize that when we traded for Jarred Cosart, he had the same service time as Hand at the same age as Hand, and in those 20 starts for the Astros he was worse than Hand ended up being in his 14 starts for the Marlins... right?

 

Remember, we're talking about Cosart before the trade. So what we had to base his trade value on at the time the deal went down. And Hand's value now, after the season, before a trade goes down.

 

So Cosart, who had a humble ERA of 4.41, and a whopping WHIP of 1.46, was worth what the Marlins gave up... But Hand, with his 4.33 ERA and 1.32 WHIP, is worthless? Even though they both have very good stuff and Hand is left-handed? And even though they're the same age and have the same service time?

 

I'm not saying Hand is worth what Cosart was, simply trying to discredit the statement that he has no value. That's dumb, plenty of teams would give up value to acquire a promising young LHP with tons of club control.

 

 

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