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This is entire organizations fault, not Redmond


fish14
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While Redmond is not a good manager, the reason the Marlins are not a good team stems from an entire organizational issue, starting from the top down. First off, Jeffrey Loria is a complete joke of an owner. This team will not do a single positive thing with him leading this clown show. He is as reactional as it comes and you can't be the owner of a baseball team like that. When the team struggles with a calm manager, he hires Ozzie Guillen. When the team fails with a crazy person as the manager, he changes his mind and hires someone calm and collected. He doesn't realize he is the issue. Going to the media 14 games into the season and not giving a vote of confidence to your manager is about as dumb of a thing as you can do. Even Jerry Crasnick just tweeted that the entire marlins team was looking at loria came out of Redmond's office yesterday looking to see what happened. He came out and by not endorsing Redmond in any way he pretty much said he was looking for a change. How Loria made money in the first place boggles my mind, and its clear that running an organization had nothing to do with how he made his money.

 

Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick · 23m23 minutes ago

I have to think #Marlins players were watching for Loria's reaction to Redmond rumors. He sent a big signal with non-endorsement.

 

Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick · 23m23 minutes ago

Loria might think he's motivating team and manager with "win now'' talk. But #Marlins clubhouse is not a fun place right now.

Secondly, this organization's baseball philosophies put this team at a competitive disadvantage. Baseball is inherently mathematical and we are an organization that ignores the math. Billy Beane has less resources to work with and runs a much better organization every single year because he takes advantage of the math of baseball to find guys for cheaper that can do the same job as more expensive players. He also forces his organization to run with his philosophies and if they don't they are gone. It's not like the math of baseball is something that is still under debate. When the Marlins bunt guys over from 1st to 2nd it shows you just how far behind this organization is from a team like the A's or even the Mets nowadays with Alderson. If you think that that is just Redmond doing what he thinks best without the approval of the Marlins front office, Redmond wouldn't have made it to his now 3rd year.

 

This is an entire failure year in and year out of the Marlins organization. The combination of an idiotic owner and a front office and manager that play the game the same way it was played in the 1960's will ensure this team is not going to win anything for a very long time.

 

Edit- To add to the "don't believe in the mathematics of baseball" point it is absolutely mind boggling that a team with limited resources like the Marlins doesn't believe in platoons. Platoons are a major way that teams with limited resources can take advantage players strengths for less money. The fact that we didn't platoon Garrett Jones last despite the fact that he has hit under .200 with under a .600 OPS in his career against left handed pitching and a great possible platoon partner in Jeff Baker is absolutely ridiculous. This organization doesnt understand how to take advantage of the inefficiencies of baseball and that is an entire organizational philosophical issue, not just Mike Redmond, despite the fact that he is going to be the one to take the blame.

 

End rant.

 

 

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If we're going to blame anyone it should be the front office. It's increasingly clear they look at one stat when assessing a pitcher. They don't understand that velocity drops are not a good thing. They do things like draft Kolek over Rodon ($ related I'm sure) when were thin as fuck on SP. Without Jose & HA we've got a bunch of 4/5 starters who can't get a quality start to save their lives and none of them strike anyone out. Why do guys like Eovaldi and Disco all of a sudden develop another and/or better pitch once they leave are organization? Both those guys are off to terrific starts. I don't know what the bullpen's problem is but they are sucking shit as well (I'm guessing that will get better). The offense, while disappointing, at least has been league average, but the pitching, jesus christ the pitching has been so bad and we've primarily played in pitching parks against shitty lineups. I hate bad pitching and I don't see how any of that is Redmond's fault. I also don't see how our starting pitching is going to get any better. Whatever.

 

 

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"This team will not do a single positive thing with him leading this clown show. "

 

Stanton and Yelich were just bought out, and they really hit on the draft with Stanton, Fernandez, Yelich, Cishek, and developed Ozuna into a significant regular. There were no problems with the Blue Jays, Prado, Latos, and Morris trades, Morse acquisition was fine and Dee Gordon is making them look good on that (albeit with a small sample size). Payroll is excellent for seasons moving forward. You can't really go this far.

 

They do a lot of things wrong, but some portion of the rant is out of frustration. That's all I'm saying. Of course they should platoon Baker, be smarter with sabermetrics, make less knee-jerk reactions, drafted Rodon over Kolek, and yes all of those issues do start from the top, but I'm just saying, some of the rant is a bit much. This offseason on paper was nearly perfect (they just needed another free agent SP which is now clearly evident). You have to give them some credit for that. The reason everyone is upset is because they did do a good job, and are not meeting expectations through 15 games. They could be a .500 team in July and all of this is moot. We'll see what happens.

 

Sample size. They should really do nothing until June and believe in the team, unless it's acquiring a big time SP they can control for a few seasons. They do need one of those. But that's my only major criticism here.

 

Everyone needs to chill a bit. They suck right now, but this is a wait and see what happens and if they are buyer or sellers in June.

 

 

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Thank you lou. I've been saying even during this down period that the offseason was damn near perfect, with maybe not going after and getting Shields being the biggest mistake. Prado is better than McGehee, Gordon is 600X better than Solano, Morse is better than Garrett Jones, and Matt Latos was a gamble that hasn't paid off but should long term be way better than he is now.

 

The biggest mistake this offseason is that the front office underestimated how much we needed starting pitching. They went after Shields, but other than that they trusted a group of Alvarez/Latos/Koehler/Cosart/Haren/Phelps/Hand and its backfired. I'm not worried about the lineup since I firmly think it should correct itself. The starting pitching should obviously get better, but they really need to be able to go deeper into games.

 

This team has literally has the worst luck the first few weeks of the year. Just about everybody has played at their worst abilities, they've lost close games they could've won, and they've faced injuries to Alvarez/Kelly/Mathis/Yelich. I said this in another thread and I'll say it again. This team should be .500 by June and should still be seen a competitor in the NL.

 

 

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Just a thought to add here... ya know how teams oftentimes go through a late season slump, or a month-long slump in June, or a slump just before the all star break, or in a random week in May, or a random week in early August, or something like that? What if the Miami Marlins have already gone through "their" slump... and pick this up and are way over .500 the rest of the way?

 

Not to get into specific stats but who says this isn't what's happening to us? Virtually all teams go through slumps, even the good ones. What if ours is already out of the way? Think about it.

 

 

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Im not saying this offseason wasn't great. WE signed our two best hitters to very good long term deals. My more immediate concern was that we don't take advantage of the limited resources at our disposal like a team in this age of baseball should.

 

Teams who don't have the money to spend like the Dodgers, Yankees or Sox have other ways to go about making up the difference in resources in ways that are mathematically proven to be true. We as an entire organization simply refuse to adapt to this information. It seems like we don't believe in platoons which is one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen and we don't adhere to the mathematics such as not bunting guys over from first to second and things like that. The fact that Redmond has even made it to a 3rd year shows this is an organizational philosophy and to me in this day and age of advanced analytics and stats it is absolutely unacceptable, especially as a small market team.

 

Overall this team is not as bad as its showing. Yelich is a stud and he has clearly been hampered by back problems. Something is up with Ozuna or he is just slumping badly, and Morse is better, albeit slightly, then what he has shown so far. The pitching is better than what it has shown and we have had injuries to our two best pitchers. My overall point is that this organization is just so poorly run given their circumstances and we have the worst, most reactionary owner in all of sports. We do not run our organization in any way close to how it should be run.

 

 

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I get the frustration 100%. This organization is behind and it makes being an informed fan less fun.

 

It's an ownership issue all the way down to the likeminded managers they look for.

 

Lol yes this perfectly describes my thinking in a much more concise way. It just hurts to watch all of my teams so poorly run in every way compared to my favorite team, the heat. The way the heat are run and deal with the public compared to the Dolphins and Marlins are like watching the popular kid in school try to talk to girls in school compared to the socially awkward kid with a stutter trying to talk to girls. It pains me that I grew up in south Florida sometimes because I am just such a homer and it forces me to root for these teams. I would just like this team to be good so badly because I was in third grade in 2003 and even at that young age I remember going to so many games that year and every single playoff game in pro player that year and it gave me some of my best memories as a south Florida sports fan. When does the period after the new stadium opened where Jeffrey loria isn't allowed to sel the team expire? Rooting for the Marlins would be 1,000 times more enjoyable with an owner like mark cuban

 

 

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Echo some of the sentiments above, things are being blown out of proportion due to a shitty start, which is incredibly frustrating to all of us. If our current run happened mid-Summer it would be easier to take (maybe...?) but as it is emphasised by the W-L record even more at the start of the season, it makes things look even worse than they truly are.

 

 

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I think a major problem right now is if you're Loria, and you aren't going to just go ahead and fire Redmond now, you shouldn't be refusing to comment on his job status when it's pretty clear he's in trouble. It's bad management to let your guy just hang out to dry like this.

 

 

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While Redmond is not a good manager, the reason the Marlins are not a good team stems from an entire organizational issue, starting from the top down. First off, Jeffrey Loria is a complete joke of an owner. This team will not do a single positive thing with him leading this clown show. He is as reactional as it comes and you can't be the owner of a baseball team like that. When the team struggles with a calm manager, he hires Ozzie Guillen. When the team fails with a crazy person as the manager, he changes his mind and hires someone calm and collected. He doesn't realize he is the issue. Going to the media 14 games into the season and not giving a vote of confidence to your manager is about as dumb of a thing as you can do. Even Jerry Crasnick just tweeted that the entire marlins team was looking at loria came out of Redmond's office yesterday looking to see what happened. He came out and by not endorsing Redmond in any way he pretty much said he was looking for a change. How Loria made money in the first place boggles my mind, and its clear that running an organization had nothing to do with how he made his money.

 

Secondly, this organization's baseball philosophies put this team at a competitive disadvantage. Baseball is inherently mathematical and we are an organization that ignores the math. Billy Beane has less resources to work with and runs a much better organization every single year because he takes advantage of the math of baseball to find guys for cheaper that can do the same job as more expensive players. He also forces his organization to run with his philosophies and if they don't they are gone. It's not like the math of baseball is something that is still under debate. When the Marlins bunt guys over from 1st to 2nd it shows you just how far behind this organization is from a team like the A's or even the Mets nowadays with Alderson. If you think that that is just Redmond doing what he thinks best without the approval of the Marlins front office, Redmond wouldn't have made it to his now 3rd year.

 

This is an entire failure year in and year out of the Marlins organization. The combination of an idiotic owner and a front office and manager that play the game the same way it was played in the 1960's will ensure this team is not going to win anything for a very long time.

 

Edit- To add to the "don't believe in the mathematics of baseball" point it is absolutely mind boggling that a team with limited resources like the Marlins doesn't believe in platoons. Platoons are a major way that teams with limited resources can take advantage players strengths for less money. The fact that we didn't platoon Garrett Jones last despite the fact that he has hit under .200 with under a .600 OPS in his career against left handed pitching and a great possible platoon partner in Jeff Baker is absolutely ridiculous. This organization doesnt understand how to take advantage of the inefficiencies of baseball and that is an entire organizational philosophical issue, not just Mike Redmond, despite the fact that he is going to be the one to take the blame.

 

End rant.

 

​Billy Beane with his myriad of World Series victories and Pennants won.

 

 

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I'm not that confident in this team getting back to .500 so easily by June considering all the significant injuries.

 

While this team looked pretty solid on paper before the year, it was also a team with little to no margin for error. That's actually a big organizational problem; there's rarely ever any depth.

 

 

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I'm not that confident in this team getting back to .500 so easily by June considering all the significant injuries.

 

While this team looked pretty solid on paper before the year, it was also a team with little to no margin for error. That's actually a big organizational problem; there's rarely ever any depth.

 

Unfortunately, yes. Seems like we hardly ever hit on a draft, whether early or late. We've usually survived on prospects from other teams during those fire sales. Why is the developmental part of the organization never a problem that's brought up? Seems to have been an issue for years.

 

 

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I'm not that confident in this team getting back to .500 so easily by June considering all the significant injuries.

 

While this team looked pretty solid on paper before the year, it was also a team with little to no margin for error. That's actually a big organizational problem; there's rarely ever any depth.

 

Realted to development, am I the only one that finds it very strange that both Disco and Eovaldi develop new pitches (small sample but effective so far) the second we trade them? Is this just a coincidence or maybe something with our pitching coaches?

 

 

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Realted to development, am I the only one that finds it very strange that both Disco and Eovaldi develop new pitches (small sample but effective so far) the second we trade them? Is this just a coincidence or maybe something with our pitching coaches?

 

​I doubt it's coincidence. Seems to be the case with more than just those two after we've let them go.

 

 

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I think our coaching staff teaches them new pitches , but doesn't allow them to use it in a game until it's been mastered.

 

Ive seen both Eovaldi and others working on new pitches in the back fields at spring. Maybe our coaches are just sticklers for perfection in order for it to be used

 

 

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Lol yes this perfectly describes my thinking in a much more concise way. It just hurts to watch all of my teams so poorly run in every way compared to my favorite team, the heat. The way the heat are run and deal with the public compared to the Dolphins and Marlins are like watching the popular kid in school try to talk to girls in school compared to the socially awkward kid with a stutter trying to talk to girls. It pains me that I grew up in south Florida sometimes because I am just such a homer and it forces me to root for these teams. I would just like this team to be good so badly because I was in third grade in 2003 and even at that young age I remember going to so many games that year and every single playoff game in pro player that year and it gave me some of my best memories as a south Florida sports fan. When does the period after the new stadium opened where Jeffrey loria isn't allowed to sel the team expire? Rooting for the Marlins would be 1,000 times more enjoyable with an owner like mark cuban

 

​The Dolphins organization gets a bad rap. I like the owner, he's made a few mistakes but spends willfully and doesn't micro manage his football execs. That's all you want.

 

 

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I was at work today looking through marlins history and in 1995 and 2013, we began 3-12. those marlins teams aint got nothing on us. our 4-11 though is tied with 1996,1998, and 1999.

 

 

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I think our coaching staff teaches them new pitches , but doesn't allow them to use it in a game until it's been mastered.

 

Ive seen both Eovaldi and others working on new pitches in the back fields at spring. Maybe our coaches are just sticklers for perfection in order for it to be used

 

​That seems dumb, though. How can it be improved if it can't be used in a game? That's how ya learn when and how to use it.

 

 

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​Billy Beane with his myriad of World Series victories and Pennants won.

 

​World Series victories are very lucky. The MLB playoffs is such a small sample size, especially the 5 game first round. They have been to the playoffs 6 times in about 13 years since he's gotten there.

 

 

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