Rydawg Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 They need a good baseball guy that's not worried about making Loria upset because they spend some money. I'm not saying anything against advanced metrics, I'm just saying get a baseball guy whether it's scouting expertise or advanced metrics driven. The Chen signing is classic Marlins. Finally give a guy big money and it's based off of the past with little to no foresight. They see he succeeded in the AL East and assume he can keep it up because it's a great hitting division. But they did not do a good job of predicting his future value which is all that matter in his deal with us. Past performance is important, but when signing a guy to a big contract, you must be very confident in what he is going to become. Chen was an average #2 at times, below average at others. You have to expectat a slight decline and with a guy like Chen, that puts him in that ehh #3, good #4 role. I understand the market was bare, but it would've been nice to spend the money on a guy like Napoli who would've been a perfect platoon partner for Bour, and Rodney so we didn't have to deal paddack for him. Obviously we would still be looking for another pitcher, but honestly I'm that scenario you could package Dee, paddack and a few end peices and actually have a shot for a guy to come in and fill the #2 rotation slot rather than just throwing 3/4s at the wall and seeing what sticks. Just my 2 cents. Honestly, I don't think the Chen contract is that bad. He is not getting paid like a top of the rotation guy. I could be wrong but I think he is averaging Ricky Nolasco money. It's a big deal for us but not a large contract for other teams. Also, I tend to agree with Polly that the Marlins are making him pitch differently and it has affected his #'s. Even if he has a small decline, the facts that you stated already, this is not the AL East, bigger park, no DH, all of those things should negate any minor decline. I think everyone one in the industry thought Chen was a safe bet. I still hope that he can turn it around soon. Eventually he will say "screw you" and pitch the way that he is used to. Again, when you trade away your best pitching prospects to fill a minor hole now, or a non existent hole in this case, you have to pay for pitching in the open market and Chen's contract is pretty much the going rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I just wonder why we made this move so early. Is this a real question? Why wait a month to improve your team when you can do it now. It's better to have Rodney for three months instead of just two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Is this a real question? Why wait a month to improve your team when you can do it now. It's better to have Rodney for three months instead of just two. It's also better to have a new SP for 3 months instead of 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 It's also better to have a new SP for 3 months instead of 2. To be honest, all your other opinions about this trade are valid except this one and I don't see how you really believe it. In what way does acquiring Rodney mean they can't go get a starting pitcher? Did they make a new rule saying teams could only make one acquisition per season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 To be honest, all your other opinions about this trade are valid except this one and I don't see how you really believe it. In what way does acquiring Rodney mean they can't go get a starting pitcher? Did they make a new rule saying teams could only make one acquisition per season? I think that Paddack was our most valuable trade chip and they wasted it. Paddack alone couldn't get the starter the Marlins need but he would be the centerpiece of any trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 hindsight is always 20/20 - how many of you will be on here to say this was a good trade if rodney helps shorten games even more (i.e. when any day other than Jose day and the occasional Conley good start) and Paddack turns into nothing? We need arms and we have jack shit in the minors. We got a plus arm with a VERY friendly contract that's serviceable beyond the few remaining months this year. Also, don't forget how shitty the FA pool is this offseason so this will help next year when Capps comes back. A bullpen of Ramos, Rodney, Capps, Barraclough, Ellington and Phelps is f**king amaze balls (hoping the finally ditch Dunn). no team is going to take trash for a good player nearing the deadline. we still need a starter too obviously but in the course of half a season we've gone from a bottom 3 bullpen to arguably one of the top 3 bullpens. Also, 98% of us had never heard of Paddack until his hot streak which was brought up by the Paddack thread on this board. It's a pretty damn good trade for this year and next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I think that Paddack was our most valuable trade chip and they wasted it. Paddack alone couldn't get the starter the Marlins need but he would be the centerpiece of any trade. It's like no one on this board is familiar with the concept of "opportunity cost." Sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 It's like no one on this board is familiar with the concept of "opportunity cost." Sheesh! Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I think that Paddack was our most valuable trade chip and they wasted it. Paddack alone couldn't get the starter the Marlins need but he would be the centerpiece of any trade. Yeah I get this, I brought this up yesterday. That's fine. It still doesn't mean they can't get a starting pitcher somehow. Though I think you get that and might just be wording it the way you did to hammer home your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Yeah I get this, I brought this up yesterday. That's fine. It still doesn't mean they can't get a starting pitcher somehow. Though I think you get that and might just be wording it the way you did to hammer home your point. I think I'm just trying to be realistic. The Marlins need a legit number 2/3 arm unless Chen miraculously stops pitching like shit. The problem is that the Marlins don't really have anybody at the major league level who is dispensable. Dietrich is not. I don't see them trading Gordon and I don't think the return will be great because he's a cheater. Also, the minor league system is at this moment the weakest it has ever been in the history of the franchise. So realistically speaking, how do you think that the Marlins will acquire the caliber of a SP that they really need? I don't think it's sufficient to say that they will figure it out "somehow." I oppose this trade because they have very few viable trade pieces and I think they just squandered one. This isn't like in 2003 when they had 2 top 1B prospects in Gonzalez and Stokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 i don't think they have the pieces to even get a "good" 3/4 starter - paddack wouldn't have done it either (unless there's a bad contract out there somewhere). Chen HAS to get back to where he used to be - unfortunately that's part of the equation if we want to make it to, and make noise in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Paddack has a lot less value than some think he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 So realistically speaking, how do you think that the Marlins will acquire the caliber of a SP that they really need? I don't think it's sufficient to say that they will figure it out "somehow." You're wording since the trade has made it sound like it's an either/or situation. As if acquiring Rodney meant they literally could not go get a starter next. I won't argue you in that they lost one of their best/only trade pieces. How they get a starter is definitely a question mark. But with a month until the deadline I won't run around saying they got a reliever and won't get a starter, as you and others have implied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vince0926 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I hope Marlins have told Dunn he will be DFA upon the conclusion of Sunday's game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I hope Marlins have told Dunn he will be DFA upon the conclusion of Sunday's game Dunn should start Sunday's game. It'd be a fitting way for him to go out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vince0926 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Dunn should start Sunday's game. It'd be a fitting way for him to go out. COL suggests he will be told he will get DFA, pitch a no hitter than sign with the Nationals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You're wording since the trade has made it sound like it's an either/or situation. As if acquiring Rodney meant they literally could not go get a starter next. I won't argue you in that they lost one of their best/only trade pieces. How they get a starter is definitely a question mark. But with a month until the deadline I won't run around saying they got a reliever and won't get a starter, as you and others have implied. Never said it was either/or. It sounds that way because Paddack is probably the Marlins only real intriguing trade piece right now. The state of the farm system is lousy and nobody at the major league level is expendable. The Marlins can still trade for a starter after this trade, but I think that a package without Paddack in it does not give them as many options as they could have otherwise. Their options are limited. Probably the only real option left is for Loria to eat a ton of money remaining on a not-so-good contract. Knowing him, he'd probably wait a few weeks to see if the team is legit. That's just conjecture, though. So not either/or but trading for Rodney measurably limits their options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Is this a real question? Why wait a month to improve your team when you can do it now. It's better to have Rodney for three months instead of just two. Silver,you should know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I think we should try to make a trade with the Yankees for either Pineda or to get Eovaldi back. Surprised there haven't been more rumors about those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada-marlin24 Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Not saying this just because Ramos blew the save last night but do people not think we are better off having Rodney in the 9th? I know AJ has been very good but he's wobbled a few too many times. I feel like Rodney is more "automatic" where he just dominates. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck carr Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I think managers' biggest mistake is how they run a bullpen. Your best pitcher should be used in the highest leveraged moment - not saved in for the hope of a save opportunity. Rodney is a better pitcher than Ramos. But I also think Rodney can adjust to pitching in high leverage situations in the 7th or 8th better than Ramos would. Ramos has had the luxury of closing out games after giving up hits and walks and even runs - you can't do that in the 7th or 8th inning. So, I'd rather see Rodney come in in the 8th with a man on and no outs and let Ramos close out a 5-2 lead. Sent from my iPhone using MarlinsBaseball.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Rodney and Ramos both make it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I think we should try to make a trade with the Yankees for either Pineda or to get Eovaldi back. Surprised there haven't been more rumors about those two. Aren't they having lousy seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SongInTheAir Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I think we should try to make a trade with the Yankees for either Pineda or to get Eovaldi back. Surprised there haven't been more rumors about those two. Yes to Pineda, no to Eovaldi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vince0926 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Who are we trading Rodney for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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