VirgilCaine Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Oh geez. Zero chance? You don't understand how a rebuild works do you? There are 3 kinds of rebuilds; one: with resources and brains (17astros) (16cubs) two: with massive good fortune (2003 Marlins) three: Perpetual Change-there are 10 teams rebuilding right now. they aren't all gonna be be winners. .500 not getting you to playoffs, so what's the point in making that a goal after ripping your team asunder? It's a money grab for the owners when they get paid for losing (revenue sharing). If you are going to rebuild in todays climate, you better start with the best and brightest in your front office. The Marlins don't have that. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 There are 3 kinds of rebuilds; one: with resources and brains (17astros) (16cubs) two: with massive good fortune (2003 Marlins) three: Perpetual Change-there are 10 teams rebuilding right now. they aren't all gonna be be winners. .500 not getting you to playoffs, so what's the point in making that a goal after ripping your team asunder? It's a money grab for the owners when they get paid for losing (revenue sharing). And you know which of those 3 the Marlins rebuild will be not even four months into Jeter's plan and before not even one exhibition game has even been played? Sounds to me like you're making a biased assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirgilCaine Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 And you know which of those 3 the Marlins rebuild will be not even four months into Jeter's plan and before not even one exhibition game has even been played? Sounds to me like you're making a biased assumption. Maybe so, but it's also a biased assumption that Derek Jeter is going to usher in an era of sustained winning, for no other reason than he is Derek Jeter. I'm not buying it. Did you know that FanGraphs has the Marlins as the lowest rated front office in the MLB? That's not my bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Maybe so, but it's also a biased assumption that Derek Jeter is going to usher in an era of sustained winning, for no other reason than he is Derek Jeter. I'm not buying it. Did you know that FanGraphs has the Marlins as the lowest rated front office in the MLB? That's not my bias. A front office can get a rating? Sounds subjective to me. And I'm not assuming that Jeter is gonna do anything. All I'm doing is being patient and giving him a chance to carry out his plan before I call gonna failure or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirgilCaine Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 A front office can get a rating? Sounds subjective to me. And I'm not assuming that Jeter is gonna do anything. All I'm doing is being patient and giving him a chance to carry out his plan before I call gonna failure or not. Yep. Did you notice how many top prospects the marlins had prior to the Purge ? Zero. That's how they are rated. With all due respect, you are giving Jeter a longer leash than he deserves, because he is Derek jeter. But don't worry he has everyone else snowed too, from manfred on down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricOwens! Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Don't blame him. If you dont want to trade him then dont trade him. Not difficult. Only becomes a problem if he starts acting up in the clubhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Yep. Did you notice how many top prospects the marlins had prior to the Purge ? Zero. That's how they are rated. With all due respect, you are giving Jeter a longer leash than he deserves, because he is Derek jeter. But don't worry he has everyone else snowed too, from manfred on down. So the front office is rated lowest because they had no top prospects prior to "the purge?" Wouldn't that be a rating of reflective of the previous front office then? If so then why not have a better rating for this front office that at the very least has boosted our farm from 29th ranked to about 19th (or even better) by many farm rankings? And no 100% false I am not giving Jeter a longer leash because he is Derek Jeter. That has ZERO bearing on my opinion of him as our CEO. I've stated this countless times here so this can be proven. I have always said, since before the ownership switch even happened, that I am giving Jeter the benefit of the doubt simply because he is not Jeffrey Loria. Some have disagreed with that opinion but that has clearly been my stance since "before day one" and absolutely has it not been because of Derek Jeter's namesake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 This team was forced to trade Yeli because think he would become a bad guy in the team after his agent said something,now the agent of JT said something too would this team think he would become a bad guy in the team and no more a good soldier and forced to trade him ? we're satisfied with the return for Yeli,would the return for JT satisfied us,too ? I'm really doubt it… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 This team was forced to trade Yeli because think he would become a bad guy in the team after his agent said something,now the agent of JT said something too would this team think he would become a bad guy in the team and no more a good soldier and forced to trade him ? we're satisfied with the return for Yeli,would the return for JT satisfied us,too ? I'm really doubt it… I don't think the latest developments with JT suddenly mean he'll not be a "good soldier. " I think his agent is trying to do with Yelich's agent did and that's force the Marlins to make a trade. I think the Marlins will still hold out for a good return and if they don't get that and decide to keep him then JT probably still shows up to camp as a professional with a good attitude. Bottom line: the agents comments don't automatically mean Realmuto would be a clubhouse problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I don't think the latest developments with JT suddenly mean he'll not be a "good soldier. " I think his agent is trying to do with Yelich's agent did and that's force the Marlins to make a trade. I think the Marlins will still hold out for a good return and if they don't get that and decide to keep him then JT probably still shows up to camp as a professional with a good attitude. Bottom line: the agents comments don't automatically mean Realmuto would be a clubhouse problem here. But why they think Yeli would be a bad guy in the same situation ? image if without the package from the Brewers,what kind of lower level return this team would be settled with if they're decided to trade him no matter what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirgilCaine Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 JT wants out by ST. If that doesn't happen, he will dig in and do his job. There is no advantage moving forward to be labeled a bad clubhouse guy. I don't think Yelich is a bad guy at all. He just was leveraging his way out of a bad situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 But why they think Yeli would be a bad guy in the same situation ? image if without the package from the Brewers,what kind of lower level return this team would be settled with if they're decided to trade him no matter what ? I don't think they thought Yelich would be a truly bad guy if he stayed, at least not on purpose. They sensed that he'd be unhappy and that that might cause an issue. That doesn't necessarily mean he was gonna stir shit up in the clubhouse. I don't think the "good soldier or bad soldier" term that the Herald used is as cut and dry as being a clubhouse problem or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Nats remain in touch with the Marlins about Realmuto... Marlins still asking for Robles or Soto... Nats still saying no... ...good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Nats remain in touch with the Marlins about Realmuto... Marlins still asking for Robles or Soto... Nats still saying no... ...good. I like that the fish aren't backing down, I am pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I like that the fish aren't backing down, I am pleasantly surprised. I'm gonna ripped for this but, in a general sense, Mike Hill is showing signs of being able to do things differently without Loria on his back. Disclaimer: I said in a general sense and that there have only been signs of it. I didn't just say Mike Hill was the greatest GM in the history of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I'm gonna ripped for this but, in a general sense, Mike Hill is showing signs of being able to do things differently without Loria on his back. What a Mike Hill apologist, you are acting like he's the greatest GM in the history of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entendu Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 If we get Robles or Soto from the Nats after all of this posturing - and we get some kind of confirmation that Hill was driving it - I will take back all I said about him during the Loria years and give him a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_gmac Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 If we get Robles or Soto from the Nats after all of this posturing - and we get some kind of confirmation that Hill was driving it - I will take back all I said about him during the Loria years and give him a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricOwens! Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Trading guys like Ozuna, Yelich, and Realmuto is probably the easiest thing about the rebuild though. Getting talent back for them should be expected. Hill won't change my opinion of him until he shows he can find value in FA and make good trades for MLB talent down the road. Cashner, Rodney, Latos, Chen, Tazawa, Ziegler.... ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97marlin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 So where else could we move Realmuto? The Athletics? This article makes a good point about the nationals perspective https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-nationals-lack-of-urgency-is-a-problem-for-the-marlins/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 So where else could we move Realmuto? The Athletics? This article makes a good point about the nationals perspective https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-nationals-lack-of-urgency-is-a-problem-for-the-marlins/ I could see the A's, the Padres, maybe the rockies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Leo Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Think it would be interesting to add Wieters and Tazawa to this deal. We'd eat 3M in salary but get a veteran catcher to help our pitchers and we need someone playing back there. And heck, he could have a resurgence and get traded himself later on in the season. And maybe with that 3M in savings the Nats would maybe feel better about parting ways with Soto and Kieboom. I just don't see them trading Robles to us at any point. Y'all wouldn't be ok with getting Wieters+Kieboom+Soto+Fedde (taking on 3.5MM in the process) for JT Realmuto+Tazawa? Nats might think that's far too rich for them. Fangraphs stipulated that the offer so far on the table is Kieboom and Fedde for JT which I agree is not enough. Same article also mentioned how in 2016 Jonathan Lucroy and his 1.5 years left on his deal was enough to get a top 30 prospect and some others. How is 3 years of JT in his prime not worth more? Just gotta sit tight and hold on to your butts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish20 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Think it would be interesting to add Wieters and Tazawa to this deal. We'd eat 3M in salary but get a veteran catcher to help our pitchers and we need someone playing back there. And heck, he could have a resurgence and get traded himself later on in the season. And maybe with that 3M in savings the Nats would maybe feel better about parting ways with Soto and Kieboom. I just don't see them trading Robles to us at any point. Y'all wouldn't be ok with getting Wieters+Kieboom+Soto+Fedde (taking on 3.5MM in the process) for JT Realmuto+Tazawa? Nats might think that's far too rich for them. Fangraphs stipulated that the offer so far on the table is Kieboom and Fedde for JT which I agree is not enough. Same article also mentioned how in 2016 Jonathan Lucroy and his 1.5 years left on his deal was enough to get a top 30 prospect and some others. How is 3 years of JT in his prime not worth more? Just gotta sit tight and hold on to your butts. There is 0 chance you are getting Soto, Kieboom, and Fedde all in the same deal no matter which salaries of theirs you take back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97marlin Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 is there a world where we take Weiters, and get Soto and Romero and Fedde? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I believe no other team would offer prospects that better than Robles or Soto,so it's 100% Robles or Soto or "NO TRADE". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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