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2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Y'all laughed at Mike Hill for years for purposely acquiring speedy players and now y'all demanding this speed in the lineup daily. 

I'm not included in that "y'all".  I've always been a firm believer of playing fundamental baseball, with a bopper or two in the middle of the lineup.

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3 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Y'all laughed at Mike Hill for years for purposely acquiring speedy players and now y'all demanding this speed in the lineup daily. 

Honestly speed is more fun than power. I'd rather see the team run laps around the other guys then try to do home run derby... and subsequently strike out a ton.

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33 minutes ago, cyoung said:

A homerun is a rally killer

Not sure if you're serious but I've heard this said before and I hate it, it's dumb. Yes it's nice to keep the hits coming but a homerun scores everyone in one swing and it negates the opposing defense, it's not a rally killer, it's instant run scoring and it takes the pressure off the next guy up. If we're asking for continuous doubles you're always needing the next guy to get a hit and to beat the defense. With a home run the next guy batting doesn't need to do anything because all the runs already scored.

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9 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Not sure if you're serious but I've heard this said before and I hate it, it's dumb. Yes it's nice to keep the hits coming but a homerun scores everyone in one swing and it negates the opposing defense, it's not a rally killer, it's instant run scoring and it takes the pressure off the next guy up. If we're asking for continuous doubles you're always needing the next guy to get a hit and to beat the defense. With a home run the next guy batting doesn't need to do anything because all the runs already scored.

https://medium.com/joeblogs/rally-killing-with-homers-9174f9f8b21b#:~:text=3 min read-,Home runs do not kill rallies.,that says they don't.

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54 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Not sure if you're serious but I've heard this said before and I hate it, it's dumb. Yes it's nice to keep the hits coming but a homerun scores everyone in one swing and it negates the opposing defense, it's not a rally killer, it's instant run scoring and it takes the pressure off the next guy up. If we're asking for continuous doubles you're always needing the next guy to get a hit and to beat the defense. With a home run the next guy batting doesn't need to do anything because all the runs already scored.

When you come up to bat with a runner on second, your approach is to drive a gap to score the runner.  If successful, that turns into an rbi 2b.  That's why the saying is, "doubles are contagious."

You would think that a hr take pressure off of the next guy - in reality, the next guy is now trying to hit one too.  That results in a lot more fly balls & strikeouts.

It would be silly to complain about a hr - it's guaranteed run(s).  But it doesn't do anything to keep the rally going.

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A batter is always better when he has a plan.  Perfect example - Harrison has been awful at the plate.  But the other night is Buffalo, he had a plan - even though it was only a dribbler, he hit it exactly where he was trying to, and got an rbi & a hit.

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On 8/15/2020 at 6:17 PM, cyoung said:

You would think that a hr take pressure off of the next guy - in reality, the next guy is now trying to hit one too.

Well than that guy is an idiot. The goal should not be a home run, the goal should always be a successful hit no matter what type of his it is, but I can't buy a home run being a rally killer. Keep trying for the doubles yes that's awesome but if some of those double attempts lead to some home runs too I'll take that for sure.

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On 8/15/2020 at 6:25 PM, cyoung said:

A batter is always better when he has a plan.  Perfect example - Harrison has been awful at the plate.  But the other night is Buffalo, he had a plan - even though it was only a dribbler, he hit it exactly where he was trying to, and got an rbi & a hit.

Absolutely 100% I agree with this. The plan should never be home run only. But if Monte had homered there we'd have way more runs so it completes the rally instead of killing it.

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On 8/15/2020 at 2:17 PM, SilverBullet said:

Not sure if you're serious but I've heard this said before and I hate it, it's dumb. Yes it's nice to keep the hits coming but a homerun scores everyone in one swing and it negates the opposing defense, it's not a rally killer, it's instant run scoring and it takes the pressure off the next guy up. If we're asking for continuous doubles you're always needing the next guy to get a hit and to beat the defense. With a home run the next guy batting doesn't need to do anything because all the runs already scored.

I feel dirty for agreeing with you but yeah, it's not a rally killer at all. It brings in EVERYONE at once, including the batter, something a double does not do.  Getting only a double also means that in the very least, the next guy at the plate will also have to not make an out - this increasing the reliance upon two guys to not make an out versus just the single guy (which also brought in more runs).

I do love the base running stuff, Bonifacio will forever be the king of the delayed steal.  He was so ridiculously good at pulling that off that he would have almost been worth having on a team just as a replacement runner.  Almost.

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7 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Well than that guy is an idiot. The goal should not be a home run, the goal should always be a successful hit no matter what type of his it is, but I can't buy a home run being a rally killer. Keep trying for the doubles yes that's awesome but if some of those double attempts lead to some home runs too I'll take that for sure.

The idea is that it forces a particular approach - an approach that is a building block of being a good hitter.  Anytime you try to drive the gaps, good things happen (😂).  A stronger guy is going to end up with his share of homer uns with this approach, and it would be foolish to complain.

Let me be clear - nobody is saying that we don't want home runs.  When everyone in the lineup is forced to follow a proven, and very successful approach, rallies happen.

I keep using him as an example, but Harrison usually swings for the fence when he's at the plate.  That results in a lot of outs.

Think about your notable "home run hitters" - Stanton, Adam Dunn, Ryan Howard.  The hit towering shots, but also struckout a ton.

Now your "fundamental hitter" - Pujols, Trout, Cabrera.  They hit a slew of homeruns, but not because they're necessarily trying to.  They have a solid, fundamental approach, and their "great contact(s)" turn into homeruns.  This is evidenced by their other extra-base hits, and their higher averages.

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On 8/15/2020 at 5:17 PM, SilverBullet said:

Not sure if you're serious but I've heard this said before and I hate it, it's dumb. Yes it's nice to keep the hits coming but a homerun scores everyone in one swing and it negates the opposing defense, it's not a rally killer, it's instant run scoring and it takes the pressure off the next guy up. If we're asking for continuous doubles you're always needing the next guy to get a hit and to beat the defense. With a home run the next guy batting doesn't need to do anything because all the runs already scored.

The idea is not that HR's kill rallies after a guy hits a HR. It is that the rally doesn't even start because the guy is swinging out of his shoes with no real plan. Pretty sure that since the 3-true outcomes craze (HR, BB, K) started, more runs have scored per rally. However, this has been countered by the fact that there are now fewer rallies. Runs per game are not really that much higher.

Anyway, the game is more compelling and fun to watch when you have 4 rallies that score 1 run each in a game than when you have 1 rally that scores 4 runs and the rest of the game is just a strikeout fest.

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@cyoungand @FishFan95

I get the argument, I really do, I don't want you to think I don't understand the point.

Swinging for the fences is not the way to maintain a rally the way a better approach such as aiming for an opposite field gap would do... but the specific wording of "a home run kills the rally" is an absolutely awful way of describing the intended point. The saying itself is atrocious. It totally sounds as if fans should be booing when their team homers. 

There needs to be a better wording to it...

"Swinging for the fences can kill a rally"?

"Not coming to bat with a plan can kill a rally"?

"Strikeouts or flyouts that happened because you were only looking for a homer can kill a rally"?

Etc etc... if someone can please change the phrase to something more like that I think it would make a ton of difference in getting the message across. The home run itself is not the bad guy here lol. The bad guy is the unintended results that come from solely focusing on the home run. 

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So.

Who do we hope returns first (we know about Sandy and Miggy Ro so far) and with those coming in, who do we want them to replace?

Sandy is replacing Yams, Miggy is probably replacing ... I'd guess Forsythe as the direct move. Or Alvarez.

 

Furthermore, is there anyone on the current roster of replacements that you want to keep? I'm liking James Hoyt, seems like Mattingly is, too - been leaning on him heavily.

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17 hours ago, Michael said:

So.

Who do we hope returns first (we know about Sandy and Miggy Ro so far) and with those coming in, who do we want them to replace?

Sandy is replacing Yams, Miggy is probably replacing ... I'd guess Forsythe as the direct move. Or Alvarez.

 

Furthermore, is there anyone on the current roster of replacements that you want to keep? I'm liking James Hoyt, seems like Mattingly is, too - been leaning on him heavily.

I'm fine keeping Alvarez around a little bit longer.  Go ahead & dump Forsythe.

 

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22 hours ago, Michael said:

So.

Who do we hope returns first (we know about Sandy and Miggy Ro so far) and with those coming in, who do we want them to replace?

Sandy is replacing Yams, Miggy is probably replacing ... I'd guess Forsythe as the direct move. Or Alvarez.

 

Furthermore, is there anyone on the current roster of replacements that you want to keep? I'm liking James Hoyt, seems like Mattingly is, too - been leaning on him heavily.

Garrett Cooper is a guy that has kind of flown under the radar in terms of his significance to the lineup. The drop off from a guy like Cooper to what we’re currently getting from Monte/Brinson is extreme. He really extends the lineup and adds some more pop behind Aguilar and BA. 

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7 minutes ago, marlins_09 said:

Garrett Cooper is a guy that has kind of flown under the radar in terms of his significance to the lineup. The drop off from a guy like Cooper to what we’re currently getting from Monte/Brinson is extreme. He really extends the lineup and adds some more pop behind Aguilar and BA. 

Also Ramirez too I feel like nobody mentions him when talking about the returnees.

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