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27 minutes ago, MarlinsFan19 said:

The fan base has to get past the Loria years, it’s like thinking about you ex from 2 decades ago. We have a great ownership group NOW

Yes but for some reason this is a difficult thing even for things that should be obvious like I saw a tweet blaming Jeter for the taxpayers paying for Marlins Park. How the fuck someone can actually say that is beyond me.

Now that this topic has heated up though I'm actually curious how the Marlins ratings are right now. They've been good and in contention for a long enough run now that I'd imagine people are finally starting to notice and make it more of a point to watch more games. 

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11 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I hate agreeing with Das and there details that can argue this point but in the context of this conversation this is the truth. 

Outside of diehards like us Miami sports fans aren't programmed to religiously watch Marlins games the way fans in New York are to the Mets and Yankees. It's just two totally different towns as far as how they follow and watch their teams.

With that said I do agree that better lead in programming before Marlins games should be a nice boost for their ratings and I do agree with the post three posts up that explains what the Marlins are doing right, the problem is that this damn city still doesn't give a shit on a grand scale until a playoff spot is actually clinched. 

I don’t think it’s a cultural difference because the Heat get extremely high Regular Season ratings on a consistent basis, so it isn’t that Miami fans hold out for the playoffs.

Inter Miami even has a decent following for an MLS expansion club despite not having a great start.

I though 162 games we’re the problem and even with 60 games we’re not getting a big boost. 

Complaining about the Loria years gets stupid, imagine having the man/woman of your dreams in front of you at a bar and only talking about your ex from 5 years ago who is irrelevant to the present or future.

My point is:

The team performs great!

The stadium looks amazing!

Our ace is a 22 year old phenom!

The fan base is excited!
 

FS Florida doesn’t give the organization respect or exposure by cross marketing upcoming games on Miami Heat or Florida Panthers telecasts, YES cross promotes the Yankees and NYCFC (MLS).

FS Florida hasn’t benefitted the Marlins financially through a lucrative TV deal.

Fox Sports and Sinclair have no more excuses. Time for ratings to improve or they should be replaced after this season. Low ratings are worse than just a bad TV deal, low ratings can negatively impact ticket and merchandise sales which are important revenue streams for the club.

 
 

 

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Wouldn't the Rays be an indicator of what the Marlins could be looking at in terms of viewership and marketing from fans as of right now or near future?

I mean, if it doesn't bode well with TB than how can it with Miami? 

 

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12 minutes ago, EricOwens! said:

Peak programming was when we were on PAX and they aired Supermarket Sweep or whatever it was called. Always tuned in early for that.

Hahahahaha. Yes, I remember those days!

It was great having Marlins games on local tv, so that you could watch games even if you didn’t have cable or sat dish. Back in those days, before smartphones, even if you weren’t at home you could always take one of those 5” black and white portable TVs with batteries, tune to PAX Tv and watch the Marlins play, even at the beach or wherever. Hahahahaha. Fun times!

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3 hours ago, Das Texan said:

Mets have a passionate fan base that has been passionate albiet jaded for decades.

Marlins have no fan base based largely on ownership fucking things over and over again.

 

the programming leading into the live sports isnt bringing in new viewers.  The same people watching on SUNY for the lead in programs would be watching the Mets also.

You make it sound like fans are going to all of a sudden wake up and say, oh why the fuck not!

Baseline the ratings from 2019 to 2020.

I bet the Marlins are up.

I bet the Mets are at a minimum baseline from last year if not up.

Its not the programming leading into the baseball games.

RSN's literally do not give a flying fuck about other programming other than the live sports and/or any related shows that are tied to said live sports programming (aka inside the clubhouse or whatever the fuck each team calls it)

Guaranteed.

This is what I'm getting at - other teams have decades long generations of fans that tune in regardless of how the team is doing, we don't for various reasons, like it or not.  That's only going to change with time, not because there's a better show on before the game.   Not saying it's a bad idea, just that's not going to suddenly flip some switch and have everyone tuning in.

 

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Yes but for some reason this is a difficult thing even for things that should be obvious like I saw a tweet blaming Jeter for the taxpayers paying for Marlins Park. How the fuck someone can actually say that is beyond me.

Now that this topic has heated up though I'm actually curious how the Marlins ratings are right now. They've been good and in contention for a long enough run now that I'd imagine people are finally starting to notice and make it more of a point to watch more games. 

Yeah, I too would be interested to see the numbers.

 

2 hours ago, MarlinsFan19 said:

I don’t think it’s a cultural difference because the Heat get extremely high Regular Season ratings on a consistent basis, so it isn’t that Miami fans hold out for the playoffs.

Inter Miami even has a decent following for an MLS expansion club despite not having a great start.

I though 162 games we’re the problem and even with 60 games we’re not getting a big boost. 

Complaining about the Loria years gets stupid, imagine having the man/woman of your dreams in front of you at a bar and only talking about your ex from 5 years ago who is irrelevant to the present or future.

My point is:

The team performs great!

The stadium looks amazing!

Our ace is a 22 year old phenom!

The fan base is excited!
 

FS Florida doesn’t give the organization respect or exposure by cross marketing upcoming games on Miami Heat or Florida Panthers telecasts, YES cross promotes the Yankees and NYCFC (MLS).

FS Florida hasn’t benefitted the Marlins financially through a lucrative TV deal.

Fox Sports and Sinclair have no more excuses. Time for ratings to improve or they should be replaced after this season. Low ratings are worse than just a bad TV deal, low ratings can negatively impact ticket and merchandise sales which are important revenue streams for the club.

The Heat don't have a history of abusing the fanbase to overcome, and more often than not are competitive and/or playoff bound. 

Inter Miami also doesn't have that history to overcome, and is also a bigger "world" sport than baseball, so with so many folks from elsewhere here, it's natural they'd have some decent support from the get-go.

This city tunes in to a winner, and should we go into the playoffs, you bet people will tune in.  But until then, people are reluctant to support the team because of the past, like it or not.  That's not complaining about it, it's just being realistic.

It's a boy who cried wolf kind of thing.  The fanbase getting into the team and supporting them during playoff runs, world series, etc is like crying wolf, and then the team was almost immediately completely dismantled (there's no wolf).  So why should the general public put any effort into supporting them now when there's been no wolf (no consistent long term vision/sustained success) in the past?  It's going to take time for them to realize there's actually a wolf worth showing up for.

 

And this isn't me arguing against better programming - I'm all for that - it's just being realistic about the situation and realizing why things are the way they are.  Now, if we make the playoffs and start being a consistently competitive team, yeah, we can move on from the "past blaming" because there's no excuse then.

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2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Yes but for some reason this is a difficult thing even for things that should be obvious like I saw a tweet blaming Jeter for the taxpayers paying for Marlins Park. How the fuck someone can actually say that is beyond me.

Now that this topic has heated up though I'm actually curious how the Marlins ratings are right now. They've been good and in contention for a long enough run now that I'd imagine people are finally starting to notice and make it more of a point to watch more games. 

Do people even know?  Weren't we talking about how local sports coverage on the news doesn't even mention the Marlins?

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7 hours ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

Wouldn't the Rays be an indicator of what the Marlins could be looking at in terms of viewership and marketing from fans as of right now or near future?

I mean, if it doesn't bode well with TB than how can it with Miami? 

 

Actually, I believe the Rays have a huge television market (like Top 7). They are big in Orlando too.

Their issue is no one in the city of Tampa can physically reach their stadium during weekday games.

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People will start watching as the team trends upward. If they make the postseason and continues to have success into next season, it’ll start the process up. With that said, to get to the level of viewership that you see with established teams that have been around for 50+ years, it’s gonna take a few generations of fans instilling that fandom in their kids and those kids passing it to their kids. That’s the only way you get those diehard fans like the cubs/Yankees/Mets/Red Sox/etc that will fill the stadium no matter how bad the teams doing. 

Edited by marlinsmaniac
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9 hours ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

Wouldn't the Rays be an indicator of what the Marlins could be looking at in terms of viewership and marketing from fans as of right now or near future?

I mean, if it doesn't bode well with TB than how can it with Miami? 

 

My argument to this is that Rays fans haven't watched or attended games even when they've been good. Marlins fans love to do the bandwagon thing BUT every time they've been good the fans have actually come out.  I also point to the attendance being pretty good in both 2004 and 2005 as well as proof that Marlins fans will try and show support when they believe this team has a legitimate chance to win. (People always forget we actually had winning/contending seasons in 04 and 05 as well) To a degree 2012 also applies to this argument. After 2012 the fanbase's trust was obliterated though.

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7 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Do people even know?  Weren't we talking about how local sports coverage on the news doesn't even mention the Marlins?

Blaming Jeter for something that happened about a decade before he purchased the team is pretty out there even for the usual casual fan stupidity but I guess anything's possible. Not to mention the whole taxpayer complaint was directly tied to Loria himself so you would think that's a more specific complaint than the usual Marlins fans complaints.

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10 hours ago, MarlinsFan19 said:

I don’t think it’s a cultural difference because the Heat get extremely high Regular Season ratings on a consistent basis, so it isn’t that Miami fans hold out for the playoffs.

Inter Miami even has a decent following for an MLS expansion club despite not having a great start.

I though 162 games we’re the problem and even with 60 games we’re not getting a big boost. 

Complaining about the Loria years gets stupid, imagine having the man/woman of your dreams in front of you at a bar and only talking about your ex from 5 years ago who is irrelevant to the present or future.

rmc summed it up above...

The Heat don't have the reputation of losing and screwing over the fanbase that the Marlins have. Quite the opposite as the Heat have actually trained the fans to expect a good team that will win more often than not for about the last 15 years... that's amazing and that's what the Marlins have to aim for. I've more closely followed the Heat the last year as my son has taken an interest in basketball and I just get the vibe that Heat fans genuinely believe the team can win every game they play, that's an incredible feeling for a fanbase.

Inter Miami is brand new... the Marlins highest season for attendance was 1993, their inaugural year. Every expansion team has a strong first season of attendance and fan interest. It's getting the fans to stay interested beyond that that's a challenge.

And yes, again, it's awful that Marlins fans complain about "Loria stuff" with the new ownership here but it's a sad truth that I've come to expect. Maybe it's an exaggeration but when I see that I just tell myself that the Marlins will not be truly respected until the final out of their next championship.

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1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

My argument to this is that Rays fans haven't watched or attended games even when they've been good. Marlins fans love to do the bandwagon thing BUT every time they've been good the fans have actually come out.  I also point to the attendance being pretty good in both 2004 and 2005 as well as proof that Marlins fans will try and show support when they believe this team has a legitimate chance to win. (People always forget we actually had winning/contending seasons in 04 and 05 as well) To a degree 2012 also applies to this argument. After 2012 the fanbase's trust was obliterated though.

To rephrase what I said above, the Rays are a poor proxy here. Their television ratings are pretty great. Top end of the mid-market teams I believe.

Their stadium is empty because it has fewer people living within 30 minutes of the stadium than most Triple-A venues.

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3 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

To rephrase what I said above, the Rays are a poor proxy here. Their television ratings are pretty great. Top end of the mid-market teams I believe.

Their stadium is empty because it has fewer people living within 30 minutes of the stadium than most Triple-A venues.

And looking at just the Tampa market (ignoring Orlando, where they are the de facto home team), the Rays rank up there with Seattle and Denver:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2019/10/15/2019-mlb-regional-tv-ratings-in-prime-time-remain-solid/amp/

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5 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

And looking at just the Tampa market (ignoring Orlando, where they are the de facto home team), the Rays rank up there with Seattle and Denver:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2019/10/15/2019-mlb-regional-tv-ratings-in-prime-time-remain-solid/amp/

Orlando is not the de facto home team for the Rays.

Orlando barely has a connection with their own NBA and MLS teams.

In comparison, The Marlins are much more popular in the West Palm-Ft.Pierce market than the Rays are in the Orlando market.

Orlando’s actually a 50/50 split between Rays and Marlins, and the Marlins have a majority in Brevard County.

The Marlins should add a radio affiliate in Orlando. (They don’t have one now.)

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2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Blaming Jeter for something that happened about a decade before he purchased the team is pretty out there even for the usual casual fan stupidity but I guess anything's possible. Not to mention the whole taxpayer complaint was directly tied to Loria himself so you would think that's a more specific complaint than the usual Marlins fans complaints.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to the ownership/blaming Jeter for the stadium part.

 

I was referring to the team's success this year - you asked if people were starting to notice, and I was asking if they even knew if local sports reports aren't covering it.

 

---

 

This article was from a month ago, with ratings through July 30th.

It had us down 11%

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/08/06/early-regional-sports-network-tv-ratings-and-ad-sales-for-mlb-are-up-compared-to-2019/#18f081a23441

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4 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Sorry, I wasn't referring to the ownership/blaming Jeter for the stadium part.

 

I was referring to the team's success this year - you asked if people were starting to notice, and I was asking if they even knew if local sports reports aren't covering it.

 

---

 

This article was from a month ago, with ratings through July 30th.

It had us down 11%

spacer.png

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/08/06/early-regional-sports-network-tv-ratings-and-ad-sales-for-mlb-are-up-compared-to-2019/#18f081a23441

There’s also the factor of a lot of people not wanting to support any sports right now that are politicized (don’t shoot the messenger, it is what it is) and that people don’t fee it’s a “real” season so they aren’t interested 

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1 minute ago, marlinsmaniac said:

There’s also the factor of a lot of people not wanting to support any sports right now that are politicized (don’t shoot the messenger, it is what it is) and that people don’t fee it’s a “real” season so they aren’t interested 

That's true on the former.  I'm not so sure on the latter - someone's just not going to watch because it's not a normal season?

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10 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I was referring to the team's success this year - you asked if people were starting to notice, and I was asking if they even knew if local sports reports aren't covering it.

Poor media coverage aside, there are plenty of Marlins fans out there who just don't watch the team regularly and just check in on them here and there. If they've been checking in the last few weeks they'll start noticing the standings and the hot players and the general improvements so eventually they'll catch on. Plus general word of mouth in the community. It's been basically a month and a half of good signs so people have to be noticing it and wondering how real it is.

To be fair, about poor local sports coverage, my complaints have been about one radio station and one TV station. There are plenty of others and I can't fairly say that others are covering this team as poorly.

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8 minutes ago, marlinsmaniac said:

There’s also the factor of a lot of people not wanting to support any sports right now that are politicized (don’t shoot the messenger, it is what it is) and that people don’t fee it’s a “real” season so they aren’t interested 

You hear both of these two arguments a lot but I feel like most people who say that will forget they said it if their team is really good. I'd imagine it's a very small number of people who will actually stick to their guns and "never watch that team again."

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July was also a hot fucking mess for the Marlins with the Covid stuff.  You'll probably see some August numbers coming out in the next few days.

As far as TV rights for 2021 and beyond, I assume Jeter is working on something.  Whether its with Sinclair or not, something will need to get done.  From some reports, there was no new deal signed with Fox (back during the time of negotiations with Loria) because the new group assumed they would get a much better deal (because they honestly were fucking morons at the business of baseball), and when it wasnt materializing were kicking themselves and would take that old offer 10 days out of 10.  

The bubble was going to burst with tv rights deals.  The Marlins might have overplayed their hand.

I honestly hope they go the streaming affiliate route, get some type of sweet heart deal because that sweetheart deal isnt coming from Sinclair.

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Just now, SilverBullet said:

You hear both of these two arguments a lot but I feel like most people who say that will forget they said it if their team is really good. I'd imagine it's a very small number of people who will actually stick to their guns and "never watch that team again."

The loudest of the loud (which are really the minority) are the ones going on and on about that.  They point to NBA playoff ratings (which are often at some pretty stupid times this playoff season) as Exhibit A-G of why they are right.  

I'll be curious what the ratings are for the NBA Finals and even the NBA Conference Finals compared to 2019 (I assume all those games will air in primetime).  

The thing that MLB and the MLBPA fucked up is that they should have found a way to start the season earlier where they would have had a captive audience for a good month and made things super interactive and all that.  

But they are both idiotic morons and fucked that up.

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29 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

You hear both of these two arguments a lot but I feel like most people who say that will forget they said it if their team is really good. I'd imagine it's a very small number of people who will actually stick to their guns and "never watch that team again."

Man you’d be surprised how many people I know swore off the marlins after the walk out with the Mets. Again, IDC to touch on the morality of emotions of that decision, it’s just facts that I’ve experienced. Some people are really really political and act like they have a seat in Congress lol

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