taiwanmarlin 327 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Is he really too bad to be in the rotation ? Why this team continue to start him when other SPs available ? Any stats prove he's qualified to be a SP in a contending team ? I just think we need a thread to discuss Urena because he's the most controversial player in the rotation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taiwanmarlin 327 Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photo-Realistic Billy 285 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 29 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said: Is he really too bad to be in the rotation ? Why this team continue to start him when other SPs available ? Any stats prove he's qualified to be a SP in a contending team ? I just think we need a thread to discuss Urena because he's the most controversial player in the rotation. @taiwanmarlin, please do not discuss Ureña on this thread. This is a thread to debate whether or not we need an Ureña thread. 3 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SirFishFan 331 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Marlins should let Ureña get some rest, until the Braves series.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeffreysfishfry 127 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 "Cause it's politics, man, politics." -Platoon- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeffreysfishfry 127 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 4 minutes ago, SirFishFan said: Marlins should let Ureña get some rest, until the Braves series.. How about the Yankees series? That is if we clinched already. Actually, if he pitched vs the Braves and hit Acuna again, maybe Acuna would get hurt (not career ending) and Urena would be suspended the rest of the year. Problem solved. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EricWiener 42 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 I hope he does great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SilverBullet 2,068 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 I'm shocked @SongInTheAir hasn't yet posted in this thread about his favorite player. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bocajon 3 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 wake me up if he EVER hits the target. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Das Texan 118 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 The only thread that is needed about Jose Urena should be about why he has not been DFA'd yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SilverBullet 2,068 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Just now, Das Texan said: The only thread that is needed about Jose Urena should be about why he has not been DFA'd yet. I think that's what this thread is trying to get at. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SonOfJack 2,044 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 15 minutes ago, Das Texan said: The only thread that is needed about Jose Urena should be about why he has not been DFA'd yet. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Das Texan 118 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 33 minutes ago, SilverBullet said: I think that's what this thread is trying to get at. I'm aware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FishFan95 669 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 1 hour ago, SilverBullet said: I'm shocked @SongInTheAir hasn't yet posted in this thread about his favorite player. This is the tread to decide whether we should make a thread about Urena. I am sure the @SongInTheAir will post when the actual thread about Urena starts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photo-Realistic Billy 285 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Okay, y'all want the truth on why Ureña keeps getting starts? I gotta warn you, the answer ain't sexy. He throws hard. Why does that matter so much? Well, pitching is very complicated; it's very difficult to predict which pitchers will succeed and which will fail. But velocity is a Major Component in forecasting starting pitcher success. Consider the starters in the 2019 season: That regression line there, a-coursing through the pitchers' highest (Pitch Info) pitch velocity and their xFIPs, has an R-squared of 0.13. That ain't the highest R-squared, but in a field that's really hard to predict anything, knowing the velocity alone can explain 13% of the variation in pitcher success is huge. So a theoretical guy, we'll call him Ose Jureña, that throws 96 mph would correlate with a 3.70 xFIP. And sure, there's enough volatility there that he could be one of those guys throwing 96 and sporting a 4.50 xFIP. But I mean, look at some of those names up there in the "96 mph but bad performance" group -- Trevor Bauer, Sandy Alcantara, and, well, Jose Ureña's carbon copy, Reynaldo Lopez. But it's hard to deny you want velo in the roation. Here's the qualified starters in 2019 that average 95 mph or harder: Name IP ERA Noah Syndergaard 197.2 4.28 Gerrit Cole 212.1 2.50 Jacob deGrom 204.0 2.43 Zack Wheeler 195.1 3.96 Reynaldo Lopez 184.0 5.38 Walker Buehler 182.1 3.26 Luis Castillo 190.2 3.40 Lucas Giolito 176.2 3.41 Sandy Alcantara 197.1 3.88 German Marquez 174.0 4.76 Max Scherzer 172.1 2.92 Trevor Bauer 213.0 4.48 Charlie Morton 194.2 3.05 It's hard to get a qualified number of innings when you're getting shelled, so there's some survivor bias here. But in general, folks... That's the kind of group you would want to pluck from, not avoid. Now all that said, hard throwers are good for the bullpen too. And for all his velocity, Ureña doesn't strike out folks. So that's not great. And frankly, I expect we'll see Neidert today if Ureña hits any rough waters. But this is why they keep giving him chances. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SongInTheAir 376 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Legitimately the only reason Urena keeps getting chances is because "fastball fast goes bzzzz". Truth is, the dude can throw baseballs really fast. Problem is, he throws those baseballs in straight lines. Problem with that further, is he throws those baseballs in straight lines without really knowing where that line ends. Urena does not have good control or good "stuff" in terms of movement. What he has is a fastball that goes fast. Some teams like seeing the radar gun light up and think that means the pitcher is "good" or maybe can develop into being good, but like...there's so much more to pitching than velocity, and velocity is the only plus trait Urena has. Trying him out of the bullpen last year was a great idea, but that didn't work either. At this point, I don't know how many chances you can give a guy who is consistently the worst part of a team's starting rotation. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Photo-Realistic Billy 285 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 13 minutes ago, SongInTheAir said: Legitimately the only reason Urena keeps getting chances is because "fastball fast goes bzzzz". Truth is, the dude can throw baseballs really fast. Problem is, he throws those baseballs in straight lines. Problem with that further, is he throws those baseballs in straight lines without really knowing where that line ends. Urena does not have good control or good "stuff" in terms of movement. What he has is a fastball that goes fast. Some teams like seeing the radar gun light up and think that means the pitcher is "good" or maybe can develop into being good, but like...there's so much more to pitching than velocity, and velocity is the only plus trait Urena has. Trying him out of the bullpen last year was a great idea, but that didn't work either. At this point, I don't know how many chances you can give a guy who is consistently the worst part of a team's starting rotation. Good points. And while it has not been the case recently, it is worth noting that FanGraphs had his slider as a valuable pitch (routinely worth around 1.00 wSL/C) from 2015-2018. Maybe if he recaptures that slider control/break/whatever that made it successful, then he starts to look like a competent No. 5 starter again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SongInTheAir 376 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 There are pitchers worse than Jose Urena that have pitched in Major League Baseball, but I don't think there are any pitchers worse than him who have made a six-year career out of being consistently below average. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SilverBullet 2,068 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 @SongInTheAir so just to clarify for anyone who might be confused... you don't like Jose Urena? Or you do? Which is it? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SonOfJack 2,044 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 1 minute ago, SilverBullet said: @SongInTheAir so just to clarify for anyone who might be confused... you don't like Jose Urena? Or you do? Which is it? I wish he'd be more clear 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taiwanmarlin 327 Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 I would like him if he pitched good and helping this team win today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Das Texan 118 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 @SongInTheAir is to Jose Urena what @Das Texan is to Isan Diaz. Sweet! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SilverBullet 2,068 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Just now, Das Texan said: @SongInTheAir is to Jose Urena what @Das Texan is to Isan Diaz. Sweet! Lovers? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SirFishFan 331 Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 (edited) 34 minutes ago, SongInTheAir said: There are pitchers worse than Jose Urena that have pitched in Major League Baseball, but I don't think there are any pitchers worse than him who have made a six-year career out of being consistently below average. And still gets a 3.75M contract.. 😂 Edited September 17 by SirFishFan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taiwanmarlin 327 Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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