Jump to content

Marlins, Hill Parting Ways


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Italian Marlins Fan said:

Although Mike Hill will always remain one of the bigger mysteries in South Florida sports history because he didn’t seem to have any power under the Jeter regime, but had too much power under the Loria regime

2nd time today that I've read this interpretation. How? I thought it was very consistently said that the opposite of this is what the situation was presumed to be. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Italian Marlins Fan said:

If it’s all about winning from here on out, anything less than that will be a colossal failure.

I think people need to think real carefully about how they would define what a sustainable winning team realistically is. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I think people need to think real carefully about how they would define what a sustainable winning team realistically is. 

How would you define it? Look at the Heat. Almost always a playoff team. Never rebuilding. Isn’t that what a winning culture looks like? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

It's rare to see the Taiwan media to report a front office move of MLB team but they report the part ways of Marlins and Hill with this picture …not surprise, it's in Taiwan. 

Screenshot_20201020-112250_Chrome.jpg

What an awful memory

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

It's rare to see the Taiwan media to report a front office move of MLB team but they report the part ways of Marlins and Hill with this picture …not surprise, it's in Taiwan. 

Screenshot_20201020-112250_Chrome.jpg

Lol makes it look like he was fired because of the Chen disaster.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Italian Marlins Fan said:

How would you define it? Look at the Heat. Almost always a playoff team. Never rebuilding. Isn’t that what a winning culture looks like? 

Correct. The Heat are the perfect example. Fans always expect a winner every night and the team is almost always in contention. 

My warning was just that some may only define a winning culture by championships alone or that a few scattered years of missing the playoffs would be seen as being losers. For example, Braves Yankees Dodgers are great winning cultures yet all 3 haven't had much championship success lately, wouldn't shock me if the Marlins got to a level like those three and then people still say they suck. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

Villar was traded for peanuts at the time. It's a message that if you are hurting the team he will trade you, even if that trade isn't an immediate result to improving the current team.

Two points on this one, and one is a "to be fair" point:

1. We traded regular peanuts for Villar to begin with and got back salted honey-roasted peanuts when we traded him (Conine the 2nd will more than likely be better than Easton Lucas), so in the end it all got better.

2. You are correct - I'll absolutely side with you on this one, and truthfully I like that Jeter does it that way. Villar wasn't "getting with the program" so to speak and they said "alright, we'll get ya somewhere you'd fit in better" which was just simply, "not here." Villar is talented but oh so frustrating. He's basically 09-10 Bonifacio with power. If he had become '11 Boni with power ... then, different story perhaps.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Michael said:

Two points on this one, and one is a "to be fair" point:

1. We traded regular peanuts for Villar to begin with and got back salted honey-roasted peanuts when we traded him (Conine the 2nd will more than likely be better than Easton Lucas), so in the end it all got better.

2. You are correct - I'll absolutely side with you on this one, and truthfully I like that Jeter does it that way. Villar wasn't "getting with the program" so to speak and they said "alright, we'll get ya somewhere you'd fit in better" which was just simply, "not here." Villar is talented but oh so frustrating. He's basically 09-10 Bonifacio with power. If he had become '11 Boni with power ... then, different story perhaps.

Villar at the time was just a regular nut, so the trade wasn't necessarily disproportionate.  The trade for "peanuts" was directed more to the immediate improvement of the current team.  I'm sure we could have traded a lot of fringe players for Conine as well, so even if Villar is just a nut, we probably could have gotten more in return because he's versatile and ready to play.

Getting back the son of Mr.Marlin is a honey roasted delight in itself.  He does have raw power to all fields with above average contact. A lot of upside for sure.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/18/2020 at 10:51 AM, hovertical said:

we'll never really know how good/bad Hill really is all things considered....things changed under Jeter but again, he never had full control apparently so his tenure and ultimately, his ability to broker trades, will kinda be a mystery until he goes elsewhere I guess (assuming he gets full authority in his next stop).  Seemed like a super nice guy though and he certainly did a lot better once Loria was gone.

I think Hill did a great job even before Jeter and Sherman took over. I mean the bad trades and signings were on Loria. But the players he broight in and developed in the organization were fantastic. That great offense in 2017 along with Luis Castillo, Chris Paddack, Domingo German, etc. There were certainly great player evaluation in terms of bringing in young players.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, FishFan95 said:

I think Hill did a great job even before Jeter and Sherman took over. I mean the bad trades and signings were on Loria. But the players he broight in and developed in the organization were fantastic. That great offense in 2017 along with Luis Castillo, Chris Paddack, Domingo German, etc. There were certainly great player evaluation in terms of bringing in young players.

I'm not disagreeing with you but lately what I've noticed is how easily it is to blame moves (both positive and negative) on so many different people that it's hard to know the truth anymore. We just heard for three years that Mike Hill was handcuffed under Loria and that now under Jeter he has more control yet now he's gone and reports are saying he wasn't as in control as speculated.

And like you're saying Castillo Paddack and German were on Hill but how do we know that none of those were the idea of Loria or Samson or Dan Jennings or Stan Meek or even Beinfest or, who were those lower for a while that were hyped a bit, Marc DelPiano, Mike Berger?, the pitching coach guy from the Pirates umm I forgot his name. And for negative moves they say Chen was a Loria move but how do we know Mike Hill didn't really push for Junichi Tazawa or how about that time we signed Carlos Marmol? I mean there's even the chance Loria or Samson hit a gem at some point.

Just saying I don't know who to believe anymore as far as who really made all of those moves.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Benedict ?

That's right, thanks. Man I really couldn't even come up with a guess on his name. Geez think of all these front office guys over the years who came to the Marlins in an attempt to fix our mess.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I'm not disagreeing with you but lately what I've noticed is how easily it is to blame moves (both positive and negative) on so many different people that it's hard to know the truth anymore. We just heard for three years that Mike Hill was handcuffed under Loria and that now under Jeter he has more control yet now he's gone and reports are saying he wasn't as in control as speculated.

And like you're saying Castillo Paddack and German were on Hill but how do we know that none of those were the idea of Loria or Samson or Dan Jennings or Stan Meek or even Beinfest or, who were those lower for a while that were hyped a bit, Marc DelPiano, Mike Berger?, the pitching coach guy from the Pirates umm I forgot his name. And for negative moves they say Chen was a Loria move but how do we know Mike Hill didn't really push for Junichi Tazawa or how about that time we signed Carlos Marmol? I mean there's even the chance Loria or Samson hit a gem at some point.

Just saying I don't know who to believe anymore as far as who really made all of those moves.

The reality is we'll never know.  It's all so intertwined that we can't possibly know unless one of them comes out and goes line by line "this was me, that was him, this was him, etc. etc."

Overall, it does seem like most of the boneheaded moves (Castillo, Paddack/Rodney, etc) were driven by Loria - whether directly (which it's well known that execs would call him up directly), or a directive by him with Hill organizing the trade.

But I'm sure Hill had his share of missteps too.  Like I said, there are so many moves, it's impossible to tell who did what.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

That's right, thanks. Man I really couldn't even come up with a guess on his name. Geez think of all these front office guys over the years who came to the Marlins in an attempt to fix our mess.

I just googled "Marlins trade Pirates coach " and got it …yeah, Loria really traded for a COACH. 

Edited by taiwanmarlin
Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said:

I just googled "Marlins trade Pirates coach " and got it …yeah, Loria really traded for a COACH. 

He traded for a manager (Ozzie) in 2012, too.

  • Shocked 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A little more detail from Barry Jackson of the Herald...

Money was definitely a factor in Hill and the Marlins splitting up. Hill made more than $3 million per year, and was asked to take a pay cut of more than 33%, to which he declined.

Hill had more say with Jeter than with Loria but ultimately Hill was still just one voice in what was basically a committee of front office voices so in that sense I can see why Jeter didn't think he needed to keep Hill. Maybe if Hill was clearly the one guy leading to all this recent success maybe Jeter would have valued him staying more but he wasn't.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mystikol87 said:

I don't really understand what this tweet means lol

Gammons seems like a smart guy in general, but he has never been particularly good at tweets. He should hire a social media person.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

So Jeter thinks he's the head of baseball ops now too?

 

Mattingly is going to be in charge of developing players and being an Uber driver now?  I guess there's more than one way to drive a point home?

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hill deserved better than he got after 18 years with the team. Heck- so did Samson, Perez, Dawson, McKeon and Conine.

To give him a token contract offer they knew he'd decline reeks of the Mckeon debacle.

Jeter has disdain for anything pre 2018 and while we lampooned the Loria years as ignoring the past... atleast he respected what long time vets could do to grow the game and the Marlins Foundation made a consistent difference in the community.

Samson was the head of their philanthropic endeavors and should have been retained for that alone. 

Hill when left in charge proved he could find talent such as Fernandez, Yelich, Stanton, Ozuna and could identify underappreciated talent in Prado, Gordon and the like.

I really hope Jeter knows what hes doing, because to shun everyone and bring in "His People" leaves us with no real connection to this team outside of "Miggys Lockerroom" and a few soundbites.

I just don't see myself being invested in this team anymore. Heck I haven't been here in about a year.

This feels like when your favorite mom and pop restaurant decides to franchise and its now color by numbers and devoid of any personality that made the original spot such a joy to go to. Congrats Jeter, you bought Casola's and turned it into Little Caesars.

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/21/2020 at 9:15 AM, SilverBullet said:

I'm not disagreeing with you but lately what I've noticed is how easily it is to blame moves (both positive and negative) on so many different people that it's hard to know the truth anymore. We just heard for three years that Mike Hill was handcuffed under Loria and that now under Jeter he has more control yet now he's gone and reports are saying he wasn't as in control as speculated.

And like you're saying Castillo Paddack and German were on Hill but how do we know that none of those were the idea of Loria or Samson or Dan Jennings or Stan Meek or even Beinfest or, who were those lower for a while that were hyped a bit, Marc DelPiano, Mike Berger?, the pitching coach guy from the Pirates umm I forgot his name. And for negative moves they say Chen was a Loria move but how do we know Mike Hill didn't really push for Junichi Tazawa or how about that time we signed Carlos Marmol? I mean there's even the chance Loria or Samson hit a gem at some point.

Just saying I don't know who to believe anymore as far as who really made all of those moves.

From whats been said.... Loria didn't value minor leagues outside of baseball americas top 100, and considered them all expendable in exchange for the thought of immediate winning. Thats how we lost Paddock, Castillo, German, The Toothless Guy who ended up in PITT. Hill preached development and took an interest in the minors. Loria used them like fun coupons and offered them to other teams like lobsters they can take home to their miserable wives (wolf of wallstreet reference).

Loria signed Bell, Buck, Chen, pushed for Latos and others and the team was handcuffed with their salary on the books. Based on everything Hill, Samson, and other said BEFORE these signings and how far out of left field they were I believe the narative that people like Dan Jennings and Scott Boras got in Loria's ear and whispered sweet nothings to get the sugar daddy to spread some sugar to their babies.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...