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MarlinsFan19

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32 minutes ago, THRILLHO said:

Dude, this comment is really petty.  Why are you all the sudden so fired up about this?

People in St Pete and Tampa both wanted baseball.  St Pete got a team.  It took a while but it happened. Yea, they play in a facility that was designed 35 years ago.  They signed a 30 year use agreement.  There are nine seasons left on it.  The communities there are working on their own politics to get something sorted out to keep the team there. It's their team.  Time isn't up yet.  But it's their problem.   We've got our own issue down here with the Marlins to care how well Tampa Bay supports their team.   If the Rays left tomorrow it wouldn't create a huge market for new Marlins fans. 

Wasn't petty, thought it would be funny. Sorry bout that.

Fired up for the same reasons you are,I want to see these teams thrive- but I think you're mistaken in some of your key points. Truthfully, St. Pete was a terrible location for a ballpark. It's infastructure around the park is weak and soon it will be gentrified. It's not a viable location, and while you claim it is... the proof is in its history. The team in any other market would be celebrated and have a great future. Erick said it best  and I'm paraphrasing here "Put the Rays in Miami, and it'll be a mid level revenue team in a heartbeat".

Time not being up for St. Pete is a big step up from just a year ago when the Mayor of St. Pete was adament they will not discuss a new ballpark for the Rays and force them to honor their lease agreement. It got bad enough where at one point the Rays were exploring how to honor the lease agreement while moving out of the ballpark at the same time. I believe one option bandied about was moving one of their minor league affiliates into Tropicana and moving elsewhere.

St. Pete has gotten in their own way by having a middle child complex. It knows it isn't Viable for the team to remain there and they want to go to Tampa Proper or elsewhere, and it knows losing the team will make them small potatoes. They want to be Tampa, Orlando and Miami- and they feel losing a team will make them more like Davie. They don't want to lose "Major League City" in their resume, and they least of all don't want to lose the rays to tampa (their older brother).

 

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2 hours ago, MarlinsFan19 said:

The Marlins situation is much different from the Rays situation.

The Marlins draw 7,000-9,000 fans for a rebuilding team.

 

Are you aware of how many fans the Marlins were drawing when they weren’t a rebuilding team (2012-2017)? 

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2 minutes ago, DTrain said:

Are you aware of how many fans the Marlins were drawing when they weren’t a rebuilding team (2012-2017)? 

 

2 minutes ago, DTrain said:

Are you aware of how many fans the Marlins were drawing when they weren’t a rebuilding team (2012-2017)? 

 

2 minutes ago, DTrain said:

Are you aware of how many fans the Marlins were drawing when they weren’t a rebuilding team (2012-2017)? 

They drew well in 2012, rebuilt from 2013-2015. They weren't a very good team either. Marlins in 04 and 05 had a respectable bump- same with 2012.

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Just now, Piazza31 said:

 

 

rebuilt from 2013-2015. They weren't a very good team either. 

You’re version of a total tear down rebuild is very different than mine. 

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Just now, DTrain said:

You’re version of a total tear down rebuild is very different than mine. 

I mean, they just kept Stanton from the 2011-2012 team if I remember correctly. What am I missing?

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Piazza, I think you are a good poster here and I enjoy your contributions.  I'm ready to move off this topic because we're here for the Marlins.  But before I do, I'd like to respectfully comment on a few thing you just said

16 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

St. Pete was a terrible location for a ballpark. It's infastructure around the park is weak and soon it will be gentrified. It's not a viable location, and while you claim it is... the proof is in its history.

First, I never argued that the current location was "viable" or even "good".  My point was to explain how difficult relocation out of state is compared to how people perceive it to be. Second, people talk about the ballpark location as if Rays ownership picked that location.  This shows a complete lack of understanding for how things unfolded there.  That is a long complicated discussion that isn’t worth having on a Marlins message board.

15 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

Time not being up for St. Pete is a big step up from just a year ago when the Mayor of St. Pete was adament they will not discuss a new ballpark for the Rays and force them to honor their lease agreement. It got bad enough where at one point the Rays were exploring how to honor the lease agreement while moving out of the ballpark at the same time. I believe one option bandied about was moving one of their minor league affiliates into Tropicana and moving elsewhere.

This is just completely untrue.  The siting mayor brokered the deal to amend their use agreement which allowed them to negotiate with Tampa for three years.  During that time the City hired their own firm to redevelop the Tropicana Field site which would include a new stadium.  The Mayor didn’t negotiate with the team for the last three years because it was the window for the team to negotiate with Tampa.  That window closed and so now the team is in discussions with the City regarding site viability and plans moving forward.  The only mayor that refused to negotiate with the team was Bill Foster and he’s been out of office for several years now.   The Rays never “explored moving a minor league team” to that site.  I’d like to see a link to that information.

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1 hour ago, THRILLHO said:

This is a big problem facing the national conversation about Tropicana Field.  People like yourself go on and on in anonymous platforms about what a terrible place Tropicana Field is to watch a baseball game and many of those people yourself included have never been.  I will also refute your claim that the Dome lacks a scoreboard and concourse.  It has both of those things. 

I don't understand why people act like the Rays owe it to the rest of the country to move or play in a facility that looks a certain way.  That community gambled on baseball by building a facility 35 years ago. They sent City officials around the country looking for a team to move there.  Those same officials were the ones that sought out and assembled the group to buy the Giants (which happened but was nullified by the National League).  That same ownership group (assembled by city leaders) then won expansion.  The history behind the Rays is something that tells a story about a community putting an effort to get baseball.  It isn't about say.....a guy from England who decides he wants his MLS team to operate in South Florida.  It's very much a St Petersburg team.  So for people like us or anyone else to act like our opinions on the subject matters is ridiculous.

If you give careful thought to how deliberate baseball owners are when considering relocation I think you would realize that its very unlikely that the Rays move.  The conversation exists because people write clickbait articles on the subject and the Commissioner makes statements in public to help the owner posture in negotiations and give the appearance that there are other options.  If there were other options that were just so tremendous why did the Athletics extend their lease at the Coliseum twice during their stadium search?  Moving baseball teams is like moving mountains.  The Expos were such an extraordinary case and people seem to have forgotten just how bad that situation was 

Tropicana Field does have a scoreboard but it is one of those 90’s style lightbulb scoreboards, not a large high definition screen that displays information. Their concourse is not nearly as open as the one in Marlins Park.

St. Petersburg didn’t “gamble” on having baseball when they built Tropicana Field. The city built the Suncoast Dome in 1990 to host conventions, CFB bowl games and events such as Monster Jam. It just so happened to be that MLB came in 1998. The dome was cheaply built eight years before the Rays came in so the city didn’t “gamble” on baseball at all.

By the way, that guy from England who decided to put an MLS team in South Florida is about to change the history of soccer in the state of Florida. He has several important investors and has shown he is ready to commit to winning from Day 1 unlike...

Orlando City SC, 4 years as an MLS team, 0 Playoff Appearances in a league where 55% of teams make the playoffs.

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4 minutes ago, THRILLHO said:

Building a dome and counting on a MLB team is BAD public policy. According to Wikipedia, The stadium was finished in 1990. It hosted the 1990 Davis Cup Finals that autumn, as well as several rock concerts, The Suncoast Dome finally got a regular tenant in 1991, when the Arena Football League's Tampa Bay Storm made their debut. Two years later, the National Hockey League's Tampa Bay Lightning made the stadium their home for three seasons. In the process, the Suncoast Dome was renamed the ThunderDome. Because of the large capacity of what was basically a park built for baseball, several NHL and AFL attendance records were set during the Lightning and Storm's tenures there.

They weren’t “gambling” on having an MLB team.

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1 minute ago, MarlinsFan19 said:

Building a dome and counting on a MLB team is BAD public policy. According to Wikipedia, The stadium was finished in 1990. It hosted the 1990 Davis Cup Finals that autumn, as well as several rock concerts, The Suncoast Dome finally got a regular tenant in 1991, when the Arena Football League's Tampa Bay Storm made their debut. Two years later, the National Hockey League's Tampa Bay Lightning made the stadium their home for three seasons. In the process, the Suncoast Dome was renamed the ThunderDome. Because of the large capacity of what was basically a park built for baseball, several NHL and AFL attendance records were set during the Lightning and Storm's tenures there.

They weren’t “gambling” on having an MLB team.

Read the article.  They built that thing because they were going in hard for MLB.  All those other events came after to fill in the void.   Of course building a stadium on a whim is bad public policy.  That's why I call it a gamble.

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