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8 minutes ago, Major-Minor said:

Is there a trade you are particularly pleased with right now? (no catch - I am just curious)

Realmuto, Ozuna, Phelps, and that Cooper trade, and to a lesser extent Stanton because we got away from all that money owed.

The jury is still out on the Gallen for Chisholm trade but I really think that was smart, same for Richards for Jesus Sanchez.

Many trades don't work out, but if we generally progress and don't go backwards I'm happy.

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35 minutes ago, CyggyMarlin said:

Just hurts even more because the Marlins had a history of dumb trades under Loria

Oooooh I hate that argument because Jeter isn't Loria. I choose not to put the burden of Loria's bad moves on Jeter. That's like getting mad at your new girlfriend for things that your previous chick did.

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23 minutes ago, Photo-Realistic Billy said:

I still contend the team had to trade him; Yelich gave them no choice.

Derek Jeter comes in, preaching a new mentality, a new brand, a new path forward, but he keeps a star who grumbles to the media that he's not on board, that things are going in a bad direction? The folks around these parts would have complained until their keyboards broke. Imagine trying to get buy-in from the players, coaches, training staff, scouts -- anyone! -- if you keep saying "good things are happening" but your superstar is saying "this team is trending in the wrong direction; I wanna go."

Y'all can say all you want, "They should've just sucked it up and told Yelich to deal with it." But it's not about Yelich -- it's about the fellas he was in the clubhouse with, the young guys he would have been complaining to. Imagine how likely BA or Miggy or guys like Connor Scott or Sandy Alcantara would have developed or felt inclined to sign an extension if the team's de facto leader was in open revolt.

Denbo and them were hired to change the culture, create a Yankee-style culture here in Miami. Yeah that rubbed some people the wrong way, but it's hard to say it didn't work.

This is true. People always wanna throw "bad clubhouse culture" under the rug as if it's no big deal... until it's proven to be a big deal. Sometimes some people just don't fit in and need to go. And last year's Marlins showed how much the right atmosphere and the right mentality can help a team overachieve. 

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9 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

This is true. People always wanna throw "bad clubhouse culture" under the rug as if it's no big deal... until it's proven to be a big deal. Sometimes some people just don't fit in and need to go. And last year's Marlins showed how much the right atmosphere and the right mentality can help a team overachieve. 

This is something I am a little concerned about with this year's starting rotation. We need an older guy who has been in the league a while to be in the rotation not only to eat up innings but also to bring gifts to the other pitchers:

 

Veteran presents. 

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I am also pretty glad to be out from under Stanton...and yea we couldn't be here without the willingness to accept bad trades...so it is hard take one without the other...

Ultimately though...I nothing has been achieved yet...especially if they don't make the playoff this year...then in my mind it undoes last year.

I want a winning team...everything else is just good PR especially when haven't won something yet. And last year brings me enough patience to get me to this year.

Let's see this farm and front office bring that home and I will be satisfied...

I think people (like myself) bring up Yelich because it is somehow sacrilege to complain about a player that is traded to the team...and its also sacrilege to complain about the move that sends them away (Further...yes...Harold signed here as a minor leaguer...but it was trading away the team...that made him a viable option for an everyday player).

I think when someone like Harold gets traded or is cut... it is frustrating because we just spent the last couple of years being told to be patient with him and/or players like him...and then "he is only 25"...starts to sound a lot like "you can't judge the return yet" and "they are growing the farm" and really it is all just PR.

Then also...Now suddenly...the conversation shifts to "it is fine we cut him he didn't pane out" or "lets watch everyone pretend he is great"...again feels like more PR.

I guess it is a symptom of the sports fandom virus. And it is especially prevalent in the Marlins fan community because most of the people with the virus have long ago died and the ones that are here have been barely surviving with this disease and its most painful side effects.

So I think the Marlins made some typical Marlins moves this year...and instead of going YOLO they told us to have 💎👐 and instead spent a little on getting everyone to be patient. I think we are all doing more than the front office has done for us...I am spending money and being patient. That being said...a farm only helps if it helps me compete to get into the playoffs...the playoffs are only great if we continue to play in them...and my teams job is to get me that GG.

 

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1 minute ago, SongInTheAir said:

This is something I am a little concerned about with this year's starting rotation. We need an older guy who has been in the league a while to be in the rotation not only to eat up innings but also to bring gifts to the other pitchers:

 

Veteran presents. 

Are you saying we are 1 pitcher away?

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3 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Realmuto, Ozuna, Phelps, and that Cooper trade, and to a lesser extent Stanton because we got away from all that money owed.

The jury is still out on the Gallen for Chisholm trade but I really think that was smart, same for Richards for Jesus Sanchez.

Many trades don't work out, but if we generally progress and don't go backwards I'm happy.

No love for the DS-G trade?

1 hour ago, Major-Minor said:

Ultimately though...I nothing has been achieved yet...especially if they don't make the playoff this year...then in my mind it undoes last year.

It's hard to feel like that's anything but moving the goalposts. This team had not reached in the playoffs in 17 years -- SEVENTEEN YEARS. And Jeter did in Year 3. Circumstances were weird, yeah, but the weird circumstances didn't let the Rockies in or Mets in or the Mariners in. Moreover, this club did it while undergoing the worst COVID outbreak in the league.

And to your points above about the trade, yeah, it's tough to analyze with everyone constantly changing their stories. I believe it was Dave Cameron who used to always say you need to analyze trades from the information available at the time. And all the contemporary analyses of the trade back then were positive (for both sides). The Marlins cashed out on a talented player; the Brewers got a solid outfielder.

Everything that happened after that is new information, and the club can't be faulted for it. If they knew Yelich was going to blow up, then yeah, I think they'd have hung onto him like they did with Realmuto until a Sixto-type was offered. If they knew Brinson was going to struggle so badly, maybe they would have looked to other teams.

Re-litigating this one trade, though, while ignoring the dozen other great trades (the trades that enabled last year's playoff run) doesn't help no one.

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The Yelich trade was idiotically moronic.

Yelich was upset because the front office didnt bother to actually communicate stuff with one of their star players.

The his value would never have been higher is dumb because he proceeded to go off the very next year, his value would have been much higher the next winter.

The Stanton trade was fine.

The Ozuna trade was fine.

The Realmuto trade ended up being fineish as long as Sixto ends up being really good.

 

The Yelich trade was stupid, you tell said franchise player to shut the fuck up, accept being the face of the franchise, keep him in the loop on things et al.

The Marlins better hope Monte is an everyday player or that trade will go down as one of the top 3 worst trades in franchise history, though at least it has zero chance of being the worst trade ever.

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10 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

The his value would never have been higher is dumb because he proceeded to go off the very next yea

He wouldn't have done nearly what he did in Milwaukee down here. Argument null.

Even then. ITS. ONE. TRADE.

It will never even match the Cabrera trade.

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Just now, Michael said:

He wouldn't have done nearly what he did in Milwaukee down here. Argument null.

You cannot say that with certainty.  

His home run numbers would have been down, but his doubles probably increase.

I am convinced his OPS would have been in the same range end of day.  

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Just now, Das Texan said:

You cannot say that with certainty.  

His home run numbers would have been down, but his doubles probably increase.

I am convinced his OPS would have been in the same range end of day.  

I can absolutely say that with certainty. He would have gotten marginally better, not all-star reserve to MVP better.

The only thing that might be accurate here is his OPS would have been in the same range because he'd have been pitched around much more.

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1 minute ago, Michael said:

I can absolutely say that with certainty. He would have gotten marginally better, not all-star reserve to MVP better.

The only thing that might be accurate here is his OPS would have been in the same range because he'd have been pitched around much more.

ok.  Let's ignore the whole Yelich started to enter the prime of his career.  

 

it was a stupid idiotic trade that didn't need to happen and shouldn't have happened.  Fact. 

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1 minute ago, Das Texan said:

ok.  Let's ignore the whole Yelich started to enter the prime of his career.  

 

it was a stupid idiotic trade that didn't need to happen and shouldn't have happened.  Fact. 

And we don't need to keep going on about it.

It's done. It's over with. Result sucked. Let's move on and focus more on the good trades.

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Just now, Michael said:

And we don't need to keep going on about it.

It's done. It's over with. Result sucked. Let's move on and focus more on the good trades.

Because we only are about the good stuff right?

 

All roses and candy around here!

 

Facts are what facts are.  Good and bad, you cant ignore them.  If people would stop defending that idiotic trade it wouldn't get brought up nearly as much.

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Just now, Das Texan said:

Because we only are about the good stuff right?

 

All roses and candy around here!

 

Facts are what facts are.  Good and bad, you cant ignore them.  If people would stop defending that idiotic trade it wouldn't get brought up nearly as much.

I really don't see anyone defending that trade, mostly people just trying to move on from it and say "it is what it is." Jury's technically still out on Monte and Isan anyways, but no, things don't look good there either, so whatever.

It was fine to discuss it the year of it and say "well that was unexpected, but hopefully the upcoming prospects can make it look better."

It was fine the year after to say "ok this is bad and getting worse."

When Monte came up and struggled, that should have just been the final chapter. At this point, get over it. Let's now focus on the trades that are helping the team win. Move on. We're done.

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