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31 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

The new policies in our country is identity politics.  They use it in sports, news, movies and social networks (FB Twitter, YTube).  Campaigning on policies are secondary.  Now it’s about catering to demographics and culture. 

Even as a progressive, identity politics turn me off. I’m not a Bernie voter, but I appreciate that he spoke about poverty across all gender, racial, etc. categories. It felt more honest and rigorous. And it doesn’t have to take anything away from admitting our system is infected with racism and sexism.

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On 4/3/2021 at 6:16 PM, Entendu said:

I disagree with this.

Not everyone should vote. Everyone should have the right to (and they do) but it shouldn't be so easy that people who don't have well-formed views (of any political affiliation) can be either pushed to (through canvassing) or coaxed into doing so (through crap like vote or die or any social media campaign) from either side.

We've turned into a society that values getting as much participation as possible, instead of informed, deliberate participation. This is the primary reason why both parties aim to deliver messages in a way that third graders will agree with.

Making people wait in a line makes it so that only those who think it's worthwhile to wait in a line to cast their vote (without any extra incentives like food or an instagram story) decide how the country is run. It will lead to better elected leaders and a better country. If you want to talk about making election day a holiday, or allowing early voting, I'm on board.

If it were up to me, we'd make everyone sit in a room for 5 hours as a short of reflection period before casting their vote. Their children will be cared for that day, and their earnings provided for them if they must miss work. Voting should be a solemn act, not a party.

People arent informed about anything.

Blame the school system that doesnt actually teach civics.  

You make it difficult and you will have people that only are dedicated to vote i.e. only the small few actually dictate what happens.

Voting should be encouraged from a young school age.  You stress why voting matters.  Then you make voting not a chore that you have to spend hours in line for. 

Sorry thats not how society works these days.  We dont stand in line for anything.  Much less to vote that has no instant gratification at all.  

Having voters go through a 5 hour class basically just discourages people from voting.

Yes, you shouldnt have people with no knowledge vote, thats in many ways akin to a poll tax.  But you cant basically make it to where you have to pass some fucking competency test also.

That was never the point and our system and its not how our Constitution nor the 15th Amendment is written.

To do anything but allow all eligible voters the opportunity to vote is wrong.  

If you want to put qualifiers, then amend the Constitution further.  

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On 4/3/2021 at 6:55 PM, mystikol87 said:

I wish we were more informed as an electorate because I think that in itself is a moral good.

I’m not certain that a more informed electorate leads to better policy outcomes, though. It could be irrelevant, ie because in many situations we are not actually certain whether a particular policy would be positive or not.

If we had an informed electorate our system would be much better because we wouldnt allow this idiotic two party radical system and we would actually hold our representatives accountable for their total not giving a fuck about the majority of the people. 

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On 4/3/2021 at 8:04 PM, cyoung said:

Maybe not better policy from your or my viewpoints, but it would be policy more reflective of the constituents, which is what it should be.

It should not be reflective of the loudest voice. 

100%.  

its the loudest and richest voice that controls everything in American politics today.

Super Pacs should not be allowed.

All candidates should have x dollars they are allowed to spend and not anymore.  Make it about a candidates stances and not on you now how much they can swindle out of people. 

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1 hour ago, Das Texan said:

100%.  

its the loudest and richest voice that controls everything in American politics today.

Thats just what it appears on the surface. China is the puppet master. They control the social narratives.  You just can’t see it because they do it through corrupt politicians and mainstream media. 

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3 minutes ago, jeffreysfishfry said:

Thats just what it appears on the surface. China is the puppet master. They control the social narratives.  You just can’t see it because they do it through corrupt politicians.  

 

And how do the corrupt politicians get corrupt?

Oh thats right MONEY.  aka the richest.  

Though its not just China.  If you think its just China then you are sadly sadly mistaken. 

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3 hours ago, Das Texan said:

People arent informed about anything.

Blame the school system that doesnt actually teach civics.  

You make it difficult and you will have people that only are dedicated to vote i.e. only the small few actually dictate what happens.

Voting should be encouraged from a young school age.  You stress why voting matters.  Then you make voting not a chore that you have to spend hours in line for. 

Sorry thats not how society works these days.  We dont stand in line for anything.  Much less to vote that has no instant gratification at all.  

Having voters go through a 5 hour class basically just discourages people from voting.

Yes, you shouldnt have people with no knowledge vote, thats in many ways akin to a poll tax.  But you cant basically make it to where you have to pass some fucking competency test also.

That was never the point and our system and its not how our Constitution nor the 15th Amendment is written.

To do anything but allow all eligible voters the opportunity to vote is wrong.  

If you want to put qualifiers, then amend the Constitution further.  

If only a small few care enough to inform themselves, regardless of what conclusions they ultimately reach, is only that few voting really so wrong? As it stands right now, the majority of the country doesn't care enough to vote in most elections anyway. If it's the handful of informed voters plus all the lemmings, then politicians will cater to the lemmings and you have today's crumbling political system.

It's not a poll tax. It's a 5 hour reflection period where no one speaks and people process the weight of what they're about to do. Whatever way you cut it, most votes result in the limitation of freedom for several groups, so if you can't wait 5 hours (with all expenses taken care of) to take a person's wealth away or limit what they can put in their bodies, then you shouldn't be casting that vote.

You're right that society doesn't stand in line for anything nowadays. I think that's part of the problem. The instant gratification, the inability to sacrifice for anything, the lack of real problems relative to most parts of the world, have all destroyed this country - and I anxiously wait for the day that we are forced to reach deep down into ourselves and once again become worthy of our history.

 

Edited by Entendu
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9 hours ago, Entendu said:

If only a small few care enough to inform themselves, regardless of what conclusions they ultimately reach, is only that few voting really so wrong? As it stands right now, the majority of the country doesn't care enough to vote in most elections anyway. If it's the handful of informed voters plus all the lemmings, then politicians will cater to the lemmings and you have today's crumbling political system.

 

 

Because thats not how our Constitution is written.  There are no qualifiers on knowledge level in order to vote.  

We cant say, oh you get nothing just because you didnt bother to show up.

The problem is the political empire KNOWS people wont vote and they know they only have to reach the small minority of voters.

The issue begins in school.  Teach civics, teach the importance of voting, and you will have a more informed and educated electorate and this 'problem' begins to eliminate itself.

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9 hours ago, Entendu said:

It's not a poll tax. It's a 5 hour reflection period where no one speaks and people process the weight of what they're about to do. Whatever way you cut it, most votes result in the limitation of freedom for several groups, so if you can't wait 5 hours (with all expenses taken care of) to take a person's wealth away or limit what they can put in their bodies, then you shouldn't be casting that vote.

 

 

Hard, hard, hard pass on this.

Why an arbitrary 5 hours.  Again change the 15th amendment if you want this.  Good luck.  

I'd argue for a 5 second reflection period.  I can accurately reflect in 5 seconds what it takes others 5 hours to do.

Prove me wrong.  

And thats the extreme limitations on this processing period.  Not to mention the idiotic cost of this program.  

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9 hours ago, Entendu said:

You're right that society doesn't stand in line for anything nowadays. I think that's part of the problem. The instant gratification, the inability to sacrifice for anything, the lack of real problems relative to most parts of the world, have all destroyed this country - and I anxiously wait for the day that we are forced to reach deep down into ourselves and once again become worthy of our history.

 

Much deeper societal issue being raised here.  

The world doesnt move in the same speed as it did 2 generations ago.  Sorry.

You have to change MUCH MUCH more to move back to that mindset.  It's never happening.  Not in this country.  And its not happening by instituting a 5 hour reflection period before voting.  Guaranteed  

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This is the problem with what MLB chose to do here. By choosing to take action in something that has two sides you basically alienate half of your fanbase. They should have stayed out of this. The ASG was for baseball fans in Atlanta, the community in Atlanta, and for the Atlanta Braves organization. It wasn't just for one political party or another. Taking the game away from them was a bad idea even if you don't agree with the law in Georgia. The ASG had nothing to do with that law. 

Sports should only take action in anything political if it's something unanimous across all parties, which I know is a rarity but the point is stay away from anything that will divide people. Sports are supposed to unify not divide.

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On 4/3/2021 at 12:20 PM, Das Texan said:

Making Sunday voting 'optional' and at the decision of local officials screams of doing all you can to prevent blacks from voting who have historically voted on Sunday early voting periods.  

You make early voting MANDATORY for x days, from x to x.  Not shorten windows, you make voting easier.

Voting should be done via the Internet anyway.  If you will trust the Internet to manage your finances then you can trust the Internet to vote.  

Its stupid.  Its idiotic.  

Its a way for the Republicans to try to hold onto power for as long as they can because of their radicalism and driving away so many people from population centers especially from their parties.  Because they have allow the fucking inmates to run the asylum and have forgotten about what actual true Republicans have always stood for.

On a side note, I find it rich that Republicans are crying about fiscal responsibility NOW, when they couldnt give two shits during the tax bill of 2017.   

They couldnt have a hearing for a Merrick Garland because it was an election year but ramroded Coney-Barret down peoples throats.

Fuck the GOP for the fucking hypocrites they are.  

Its what I"ve always said about the two parties.   The Democrats and Republicans will both try to assassinate you.

The Democrats do it like men from the front.  The Republicans do it like chicken shit pieces of shit and stab you in the back.

If you think about it, your last paragraph is the other way around.

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On 4/5/2021 at 5:34 PM, SilverBullet said:

This is the problem with what MLB chose to do here. By choosing to take action in something that has two sides you basically alienate half of your fanbase. They should have stayed out of this. The ASG was for baseball fans in Atlanta, the community in Atlanta, and for the Atlanta Braves organization. It wasn't just for one political party or another. Taking the game away from them was a bad idea even if you don't agree with the law in Georgia. The ASG had nothing to do with that law. 

Sports should only take action in anything political if it's something unanimous across all parties, which I know is a rarity but the point is stay away from anything that will divide people. Sports are supposed to unify not divide.

Corporations make political moves all the time, including but not limited to donations to candidates. You may disagree with the practice, but I don’t think this is extraordinary. At most it’s a further push of commonplace actions.

Also, I disagree that the law is simply one party versus the other. This is a democracy, so restricting voting rights without basis — especially when it stinks of political motivation — shouldn’t be a party issue. 

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:04 PM, Das Texan said:

Because thats not how our Constitution is written.  There are no qualifiers on knowledge level in order to vote.  

We cant say, oh you get nothing just because you didnt bother to show up.

The problem is the political empire KNOWS people wont vote and they know they only have to reach the small minority of voters.

The issue begins in school.  Teach civics, teach the importance of voting, and you will have a more informed and educated electorate and this 'problem' begins to eliminate itself.

Where have I advocated for limiting one's access to vote based on knowledge level? Hell, I support giving everyone access to vote and removing every single obstacle, with the exception of time. Time is a currency that everyone can understand and value; everyone fills their time and prioritizes activities they value more over those they value least. If deciding the course of a country's future is low in your priorities (you'd rather spend more time doing many many other things), then you shouldn't vote.

Of course we can say you get nothing if you don't bother to show up. That's literally what we tell everyone now who chooses not to dedicate their time to voting.- The only difference is that it takes you literal seconds as it stands.

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:06 PM, Das Texan said:

Hard, hard, hard pass on this.

Why an arbitrary 5 hours.  Again change the 15th amendment if you want this.  Good luck.  

I'd argue for a 5 second reflection period.  I can accurately reflect in 5 seconds what it takes others 5 hours to do.

Prove me wrong.  

And thats the extreme limitations on this processing period.  Not to mention the idiotic cost of this program.  

You may process things at hyperspeed, but it isn't about you. Voting laws should apply to everyone the same way. The five hours is an example; I made it up. The point is, we should find a way to disincentive people who vote for fun, or for vanity like an Instragram story with a stupid fucking sticker. It can't be as easy as possible like you're saying. It already is like this and even you agree that our system is garbage.

I'd argue we'd probably spend less as a whole if we disincentive the lemmings from voting.

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:07 PM, Das Texan said:

Much deeper societal issue being raised here.  

The world doesnt move in the same speed as it did 2 generations ago.  Sorry.

You have to change MUCH MUCH more to move back to that mindset.  It's never happening.  Not in this country.  And its not happening by instituting a 5 hour reflection period before voting.  Guaranteed  

Eh, let's chat after the next major war that affects every single person in the country.... or an equivalent hardship (and no, COVID is not that...)

Unfortunately our leaders have realized that if they can compartmentalize war and send country boys to die far far away under the guise of patriotism and liberty, they can make war forever!

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