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What is more important: Regular Season or Post Season? And why do the Marlins get less respect than other teams?


SirFishFan
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Think back off the top of your head to 20 years ago and the 2001 season.

Who was the best team that year?

If you're under the age of 30, you might vaguely remember the Diamondbacks winning the World Series over the Yankees and that would be the answer for most people.

I don't remember much about that baseball season to be honest, just remember watching a couple of Marlins games on tv (wasn't really a fan at the time) and seeing CJ, Preston Wilson and Mike Lowell. I also remember the final moment of that 2001 WS with Luis Gonzalez and the Diamondbacks winning the game over the Yankees. I also remember Barry Bonds getting the new single season HR record with 73 HRs.

 

What is the reason I'm bringing all of this up?

 

Back in 2001 the Seattle Mariners had a once in a lifetime-type regular season.

 

They went 116-46 on the season. 

 

That was Ichiro's rookie season and he hit .350 with 242 hits and 56 SBs, he won the AL rookie of the year and the AL MVP that year.

 

The Mariners that year led the Majors in runs scored and fewest runs allowed.

 

Their starting rotation, well:

image.png.26d836e53815174beb3addb49bae6933.png

 

The kind of season that every fan wishes their team would have every year but never does.

 

And after all of that?

 

4-6 in the Postseason. 

Lost the ALCS to the Yankees 4-1.

 

 

So my question is, in 2001 who was the best team that year?

 

The Mariners or the Diamondbacks?

 

 

And the bigger question I have is what is more important to you, the regular season or the post season/WS?

 

Most Braves fans walk around all smug and arrogant because the Braves owned the NL East from 1991-2004, and to a smaller extent the past 3-4 seasons, even though during that time they only won 1 WS even though they made it to the Postseason every year.

 

And the Marlins have only made it to the postseason three times in their history but have won 2 WS.

 

So why do some not very good teams like the Pirates, Tigers and even the Mariners(who haven't made the postseason since that 2001 season) get a lot more respect in the national media and probably with the average MLB fan than the Marlins do?

 

What is it about the Marlins that makes them get so much disrespect around baseball and sports reporters in general? I understand during the Loria/Samson years there was good reasons, but honestly even before the Loria years, I'm pretty sure some similar disrespect was happening, and definietely after those years as well.

 

And how many other teams have also had 100+ loss seasons or don't make the playoffs for years but still will get more respect than the Fish?

 

The best comparison I can make is the Colorado Rockies who started playing the exact same year as the Marlins(1993), and have had almost as many losing seasons in their history as the Marlins (19 for the Rockies, 21 for the Marlins) and they've made the postseason 5 times and the WS once in 2007 and got swept by the Red Sox. Yet, I still feel like the Rockies overall get much more respect in general than the Marlins.

 

I know this post is all over the place, and I know that these questions have been discussed for many years on here, but still I wonder why? 

 

Let's go Marlins! 😂

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, SirFishFan said:

Think back off the top of your head to 20 years ago and the 2001 season.

Who was the best team that year?

If you're under the age of 30, you might vaguely remember the Diamondbacks winning the World Series over the Yankees and that would be the answer for most people.

I don't remember much about that baseball season to be honest, just remember watching a couple of Marlins games on tv (wasn't really a fan at the time) and seeing CJ, Preston Wilson and Mike Lowell. I also remember the final moment of that 2001 WS with Luis Gonzalez and the Diamondbacks winning the game over the Yankees. I also remember Barry Bonds getting the new single season HR record with 73 HRs.

 

What is the reason I'm bringing all of this up?

 

Back in 2001 the Seattle Mariners had a once in a lifetime-type regular season.

 

They went 116-46 on the season. 

 

That was Ichiro's rookie season and he hit .350 with 242 hits and 56 SBs, he won the AL rookie of the year and the AL MVP that year.

 

The Mariners that year led the Majors in runs scored and fewest runs allowed.

 

Their starting rotation, well:

image.png.26d836e53815174beb3addb49bae6933.png

 

The kind of season that every fan wishes their team would have every year but never does.

 

And after all of that?

 

4-6 in the Postseason. 

Lost the ALCS to the Yankees 4-1.

 

 

So my question is, in 2001 who was the best team that year?

 

The Mariners or the Diamondbacks?

 

 

And the bigger question I have is what is more important to you, the regular season or the post season/WS?

 

Most Braves fans walk around all smug and arrogant because the Braves owned the NL East from 1991-2004, and to a smaller extent the past 3-4 seasons, even though during that time they only won 1 WS even though they made it to the Postseason every year.

 

And the Marlins have only made it to the postseason three times in their history but have won 2 WS.

 

So why do some not very good teams like the Pirates, Tigers and even the Mariners(who haven't made the postseason since that 2001 season) get a lot more respect in the national media and probably with the average MLB fan than the Marlins do?

 

What is it about the Marlins that makes them get so much disrespect around baseball and sports reporters in general? I understand during the Loria/Samson years there was good reasons, but honestly even before the Loria years, I'm pretty sure some similar disrespect was happening, and definietely after those years as well.

 

And how many other teams have also had 100+ loss seasons or don't make the playoffs for years but still will get more respect than the Fish?

 

The best comparison I can make is the Colorado Rockies who started playing the exact same year as the Marlins(1993), and have had almost as many losing seasons in their history as the Marlins (19 for the Rockies, 21 for the Marlins) and they've made the postseason 5 times and the WS once in 2007 and got swept by the Red Sox. Yet, I still feel like the Rockies overall get much more respect in general than the Marlins.

 

I know this post is all over the place, and I know that these questions have been discussed for many years on here, but still I wonder why? 

 

Let's go Marlins! 😂

 

 

 

 

i don't remember much, if any, negative press before 1998.  That massive firesale following a damn good team that won the WS kick started it all and then jettisoning Miggy only a few seasons removed from another WS for junk bascially sealed the fate of this franchise in terms of ANY time a semi-well known name gets dealt they're gonna be viewed as being cheap.  It also hasn't helped that their team has largely been shit and not in the playoffs until last season (and then literally Jeter came out and said he was shocked they got there and proceeded to pretty much ignore the teams needs this season). 

 

From a national perspective it's pretty easy to see why they get trashed a lot.  shrug

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There are a few things to unpack here.

I'll be 31 next week, and honestly don't really remember much before the '06 season, which is when I really started following the team with any regularity - why then, I don't know, but that was a fun group despite the losing.

To me, on a macro level and longer term, it's "fun" to say your team won X World Series in X years, but on a micro level day to day/season to season basis, it's more fun to watch a winning team - look at the morale/attitude of the board here and now with how poorly they're doing - it's just not fun to watch.  Compare that to last year when they were doing well and in it, it was a blast.

There's also the obviously very valid argument that you have to be good enough to even get to the postseason in order to win the WS too.

I think the teams you mentioned get a pass (or more of one, I've seen more and more negative things about both the Pirates and Rockies over the last few seasons), because of their longevity/how long they've been around.  That doesn't apply to the Rockies, obviously, but they also haven't had the history we have.

Dismantling a WS team right after you win it surely is not going to help with PR, but as some have pointed out, that seemed to have been overcome, especially when they won again a few years later.  But then Loria did it again (I know it wasn't immediate, but as pointed out, they dumped a HOF for what turned out to be nothing), not once, but twice, though the latter time wasn't a WS team obviously.  2012 I think could have been that reset, but the team did poorly.....I personally thought they were just horribly unlucky that year and nothing meshed, and it would've been better the next season.  Things were supposed to be different with the new park, but Loria did it again.  And then you have the new group coming in and AGAIN dismantling the team.......and before there are any comments, the topic of this thread isn't to rehash that topic of whether or not it was smart or not.

 

That's 4 complete teardowns of the team, trading away stars - future HOFs, MVPs, etc - within the span of 20 years.    Add to that the countless Loria-driven beyond lopsided trades, and that's not a recipe for a good PR situation.

 

Fast forward to now - the rebuild has been going fairly well - the pitching acquisitions have largely been good to great, the bats have been terrible......I'm really trying to stick in the "part of the plan" mentality, and give them somewhat of a pass for lack of revenues last year throwing a huge wrench in the original plan, but as discussed in other threads, the complete lack of even attempting to do anything to help out with the injuries after a lackluster offseason where a lot of guys pitching and offense wise were available at lower rates, puts up increasingly large red flags for me.  If they don't do more this offseason, I'm relegating it back to "same old Marlins" and may start losing interest.  I hope they get rid of Mattingly either after the season, or now honestly.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

There are a few things to unpack here.

I'll be 31 next week, and honestly don't really remember much before the '06 season, which is when I really started following the team with any regularity - why then, I don't know, but that was a fun group despite the losing.

To me, on a macro level and longer term, it's "fun" to say your team won X World Series in X years, but on a micro level day to day/season to season basis, it's more fun to watch a winning team - look at the morale/attitude of the board here and now with how poorly they're doing - it's just not fun to watch.  Compare that to last year when they were doing well and in it, it was a blast.

There's also the obviously very valid argument that you have to be good enough to even get to the postseason in order to win the WS too.

I think the teams you mentioned get a pass (or more of one, I've seen more and more negative things about both the Pirates and Rockies over the last few seasons), because of their longevity/how long they've been around.  That doesn't apply to the Rockies, obviously, but they also haven't had the history we have.

Dismantling a WS team right after you win it surely is not going to help with PR, but as some have pointed out, that seemed to have been overcome, especially when they won again a few years later.  But then Loria did it again (I know it wasn't immediate, but as pointed out, they dumped a HOF for what turned out to be nothing), not once, but twice, though the latter time wasn't a WS team obviously.  2012 I think could have been that reset, but the team did poorly.....I personally thought they were just horribly unlucky that year and nothing meshed, and it would've been better the next season.  Things were supposed to be different with the new park, but Loria did it again.  And then you have the new group coming in and AGAIN dismantling the team.......and before there are any comments, the topic of this thread isn't to rehash that topic of whether or not it was smart or not.

 

That's 4 complete teardowns of the team, trading away stars - future HOFs, MVPs, etc - within the span of 20 years.    Add to that the countless Loria-driven beyond lopsided trades, and that's not a recipe for a good PR situation.

 

Fast forward to now - the rebuild has been going fairly well - the pitching acquisitions have largely been good to great, the bats have been terrible......I'm really trying to stick in the "part of the plan" mentality, and give them somewhat of a pass for lack of revenues last year throwing a huge wrench in the original plan, but as discussed in other threads, the complete lack of even attempting to do anything to help out with the injuries after a lackluster offseason where a lot of guys pitching and offense wise were available at lower rates, puts up increasingly large red flags for me.  If they don't do more this offseason, I'm relegating it back to "same old Marlins" and may start losing interest.  I hope they get rid of Mattingly either after the season, or now honestly.

The JT thing this offseason really threw a giant red flag up for me. I honestly didn't think they were going to sign him but it was because he would cost too much - then to see what he actually signed for made me really take a step back and reassess how committed they are to really winning. Same thing when Gio "retired" and they didn't bother grabbing another vet arm, in the very least to flip at the deadline if they didnt need them. Just some really eye opening moves that reek of (actual) cheap Jeter/Sherman

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5 minutes ago, hovertical said:

The JT thing this offseason really threw a giant red flag up for me. I honestly didn't think they were going to sign him but it was because he would cost too much - then to see what he actually signed for made me really take a step back and reassess how committed they are to really winning. Same thing when Gio "retired" and they didn't bother grabbing another vet arm, in the very least to flip at the deadline if they didnt need them. Just some really eye opening moves that reek of (actual) cheap Jeter/Sherman

Agree on all points.

I can understand passing on JT if he winds up getting 250 or something crazier.  But he got half that.

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8 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Agree on all points.

I can understand passing on JT if he winds up getting 250 or something crazier.  But he got half that.

And man, I get that you don't always sign the big UFA but if there was ever a better fit in terms of need and production I can't think of it. JT was a perfect fit for this team and a fantastic upgrade on offense, defense, and even working with the young pitchers. 

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47 minutes ago, hovertical said:

And man, I get that you don't always sign the big UFA but if there was ever a better fit in terms of need and production I can't think of it. JT was a perfect fit for this team and a fantastic upgrade on offense, defense, and even working with the young pitchers. 

 

Of course - a targeted signing at a position of great need rather than signing someone to sign someone.

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7 hours ago, SirFishFan said:

Think back off the top of your head to 20 years ago and the 2001 season.

Who was the best team that year?

If you're under the age of 30, you might vaguely remember the Diamondbacks winning the World Series over the Yankees and that would be the answer for most people.

I don't remember much about that baseball season to be honest, just remember watching a couple of Marlins games on tv (wasn't really a fan at the time) and seeing CJ, Preston Wilson and Mike Lowell. I also remember the final moment of that 2001 WS with Luis Gonzalez and the Diamondbacks winning the game over the Yankees. I also remember Barry Bonds getting the new single season HR record with 73 HRs.

 

What is the reason I'm bringing all of this up?

 

Back in 2001 the Seattle Mariners had a once in a lifetime-type regular season.

 

They went 116-46 on the season. 

 

That was Ichiro's rookie season and he hit .350 with 242 hits and 56 SBs, he won the AL rookie of the year and the AL MVP that year.

 

The Mariners that year led the Majors in runs scored and fewest runs allowed.

 

Their starting rotation, well:

image.png.26d836e53815174beb3addb49bae6933.png

 

The kind of season that every fan wishes their team would have every year but never does.

 

And after all of that?

 

4-6 in the Postseason. 

Lost the ALCS to the Yankees 4-1.

 

 

So my question is, in 2001 who was the best team that year?

 

The Mariners or the Diamondbacks?

 

 

And the bigger question I have is what is more important to you, the regular season or the post season/WS?

 

Most Braves fans walk around all smug and arrogant because the Braves owned the NL East from 1991-2004, and to a smaller extent the past 3-4 seasons, even though during that time they only won 1 WS even though they made it to the Postseason every year.

 

And the Marlins have only made it to the postseason three times in their history but have won 2 WS.

 

So why do some not very good teams like the Pirates, Tigers and even the Mariners(who haven't made the postseason since that 2001 season) get a lot more respect in the national media and probably with the average MLB fan than the Marlins do?

 

What is it about the Marlins that makes them get so much disrespect around baseball and sports reporters in general? I understand during the Loria/Samson years there was good reasons, but honestly even before the Loria years, I'm pretty sure some similar disrespect was happening, and definietely after those years as well.

 

And how many other teams have also had 100+ loss seasons or don't make the playoffs for years but still will get more respect than the Fish?

 

The best comparison I can make is the Colorado Rockies who started playing the exact same year as the Marlins(1993), and have had almost as many losing seasons in their history as the Marlins (19 for the Rockies, 21 for the Marlins) and they've made the postseason 5 times and the WS once in 2007 and got swept by the Red Sox. Yet, I still feel like the Rockies overall get much more respect in general than the Marlins.

 

I know this post is all over the place, and I know that these questions have been discussed for many years on here, but still I wonder why? 

 

Let's go Marlins! 😂

 

 

 

 

tl;dr

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