The Fire Don Mattingly Thread

[Michael]

1 minute ago, hovertical said:

Denbo's personal fat shamer

We have to wait and see what kind of fat he is before we hire a fat shamer.

(We're not hiring a fat shamer.)

[Das Texan]

1 hour ago, Erick said:

Can I be your bench coach? We have great chemistry.

I'd consider it if it allowed my paycheck to grow when ball games were won. 

[1.618]

Guess I’ll just be the janitor. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by FishFry

[Michael]

3 minutes ago, FishFry said:

Guess I’ll just be the janitor. 

Would you be down for baserunning coach?

[1.618]

1 minute ago, Michael said:

Would you be down for baserunning coach?

I was clocked at 23 mph in high school.  

Heck yes!!

[Michael]

28 minutes ago, FishFry said:

I was clocked at 23 mph in high school.  

Heck yes!!

That's ... I think quite fast.

[FishFan95]

At this point, I think it is too late to salvage the season even if Mattingly is fired. Would make more sense to stick with him and move on after his contract expires at the end of the year so you can get a real replacement. The players like him, so switching managers when it wouldn't make a difference isn't gonna help the cause.

[CyggyMarlin]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

Hmm ...

 

... you can serve beer in the club level then.

someone has to serve the ice cream

[CyggyMarlin]

11 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

At this point, I think it is too late to salvage the season even if Mattingly is fired. Would make more sense to stick with him and move on after his contract expires at the end of the year so you can get a real replacement. The players like him, so switching managers when it wouldn't make a difference isn't gonna help the cause.

Mattingly had to be fired last month if the FO was serious, but they're not... (cheap bastards)

[1.618]

8 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

At this point, I think it is too late to salvage the season even if Mattingly is fired. Would make more sense to stick with him and move on after his contract expires at the end of the year so you can get a real replacement. The players like him, so switching managers when it wouldn't make a difference isn't gonna help the cause.

The problem with that is not knowing how good or bad this team really is.  If Don was fired and the team looked totally different with a new coach it would show that the FO isn’t so much at fault with the roster and we could approach next year to what is really of need. 

[FishFan95]

5 minutes ago, CyggyMarlin said:

Mattingly had to be fired last month if the FO was serious, but they're not... (cheap bastards)

I agree.

[FishFan95]

4 minutes ago, FishFry said:

The problem with that is not knowing how good or bad this team really is.  If Don was fired and the team looked totally different with a new coach it would show that the FO isn’t so much at fault with the roster and we could approach next year to what is really of need. 

This is a good point. Could be nothing left to lose.

[Erick]

Don’s managing tonight in the win was inexcusable.

Relying on Zach Pop and David Hess to get the most crucial outs of the game in the 8th despite having Anthony Bender apparently available (he pitched the 9th). 

There were also guys in the pen, based on workload, who shouldn’t have been unavailable. I’m sure Don knows how they feel better than we do, but it’s still odd. 

I’ll give him a pass for not using Bleier as it would’ve been 4 consecutive games (although he had thrown a combined 29 pitches in the 3 games against the Braves), but there was no reason for Bass to be unavailable. To a lesser extent, Detwiler probably could’ve been used? 

He let Hess pitch to Bellinger and Betts with the bases loaded and nobody out. Fortunate that the Dodgers could only tie the game in the 8th.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Erick

[1.618]

2 minutes ago, Erick said:

Don’s managing tonight in the win was inexcusable.

Relying on Zach Pop and David Hess to get the most crucial outs of the game in the 8th despite having Anthony Bender apparently available (he pitched the 9th). 

There were also guys in the pen, based on workload, who shouldn’t have been unavailable. I’m sure Don knows how they feel better than we do, but it’s still odd. 

I’ll give him a pass for not using Bleier as it would’ve been 4 consecutive games (although he had thrown a combined 29 pitches in the 3 games against the Braves), but there was no reason for Bass to be unavailable. To a lesser extent, Detwiler probably could’ve been used? 

He let Hess pitch to Bellinger and Betts with the bases loaded and nobody out. Fortunate that the Dodgers could only tie the game in the 8th.

Bender in the 8th would fix one problem but lead to another.  Who would pitch the 9th?   You could flip flop Bleier and Bender and go for broke.  The narrative of losing would be they needed rest. 

No more Bass.  He should have been replaced by Holloway.  He’s 1-4 with a career 10-20 W/L record.

I think Curtiss should’ve pitched the 8th.  You been active on Curtiss lately and rightfully so, that’s all that you needed to say really.  

 

 

 

[rmc523]

12 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

I hope the front office notices how apathetic fans are getting with this year's bullshit. And its not unrealistic asks, we just want some more urgency, more of a serious effort to actually win every game instead of the ho hum "oh well I guess we tried but we lost."

Yeah, how many times this year have we seen things I think I've seen maybe once or twice EVER in my 15 years of truly closely watching baseball - short bench weeks at a time, bullpen games every other game for weeks on end, relief pitchers consistently getting ABs, etc.

I said it in the game thread - while a single game shouldn't really matter in the context of a season, had they lost this game tonight, I think I'd have been done on the season and just tuned out nearly completely - they got a reprieve for now, but I'm really at that point, which is the complete 180 from last year, or honestly even early in the season when on paper we should be competitive with how the division has been.

 

1 hour ago, FishFan95 said:

At this point, I think it is too late to salvage the season even if Mattingly is fired. Would make more sense to stick with him and move on after his contract expires at the end of the year so you can get a real replacement. The players like him, so switching managers when it wouldn't make a difference isn't gonna help the cause.

I unfortunately agree - that move needed to be made a month or two ago when the team was barely treading water and beginning to sink.

[Erick]

6 minutes ago, FishFry said:

Bender in the 8th would fix one problem but lead to another.  Who would pitch the 9th?   You could flip flop Bleier and Bender and go for broke.  The narrative of losing would be they needed rest. 

No more Bass.  He should have been replaced by Holloway.  He’s 1-4 with a career 10-20 W/L record.

I think Curtiss should’ve pitched the 8th.  You been active on Curtiss lately and rightfully so, that’s all that you needed to say really.  

 

 

 

It worked out, but I’d rather have Bender pitching to Muncy, Bellinger, Betts, etc. with the game on the line than Hess, and then take my chances with Hess leading 4-2 or more in the 9th and a clean inning. The game was on the line in the 8th and we got lucky that loanDepot held Bellinger’s flyball in the park.

I’m not a big time Bass fan, but he’s definitely better than Pop/Hess so I would’ve opened the 8th with him and then Bender in the 9th.

I didn’t bring up Curtiss because he’s on the IL apparently.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Erick

[rmc523]

5 minutes ago, FishFry said:

Bender in the 8th would fix one problem but lead to another.  Who would pitch the 9th?   You could flip flop Bleier and Bender and go for broke.  The narrative of losing would be they needed rest. 

No more Bass.  He should have been replaced by Holloway.  He’s 1-4 with a career 10-20 W/L record.

I think Curtiss should’ve pitched the 8th.  You been active on Curtiss lately and rightfully so, that’s all that you needed to say really.  

 

 

 

The point was more that Bender has been good all around - you bring the best guy in to put out the obvious fire of bases loaded nobody out, and let the other guy have a clean inning with the lead still intact.

[SongInTheAir]

Mattingly always manages for the next day or the next inning without worrying about what is right in front of him. It goes so opposite to his sense of urgency comments. Even today, the Marlins won despite Mattingly's best efforts to lose. Yeah, Bender was great in the ninth, but he left Bender in the bullpen in the eighth, when we needed a shutdown inning. Same way he benches guys or deems relievers unavailable. "Need them ready for tomorrow!" The Marlins are undefeated in tomorrows, but 36-47 in todays you dumb shit. 

[CyggyMarlin]

1 hour ago, Erick said:

Don’s managing tonight in the win was inexcusable.

Relying on Zach Pop and David Hess to get the most crucial outs of the game in the 8th despite having Anthony Bender apparently available (he pitched the 9th). 

There were also guys in the pen, based on workload, who shouldn’t have been unavailable. I’m sure Don knows how they feel better than we do, but it’s still odd. 

I’ll give him a pass for not using Bleier as it would’ve been 4 consecutive games (although he had thrown a combined 29 pitches in the 3 games against the Braves), but there was no reason for Bass to be unavailable. To a lesser extent, Detwiler probably could’ve been used? 

He let Hess pitch to Bellinger and Betts with the bases loaded and nobody out. Fortunate that the Dodgers could only tie the game in the 8th.

Is Curtiss on the DL?  Because Don seems to forget he exists it seems during the season

Edited July 6, 2021 by CyggyMarlin

[Erick]

Another guy who could’ve been used in the 8th to start the inning was Jordan Holloway?

Holloway last pitched on Wednesday in a start (66 pitches).

Apparently, he was called back up when they put Curtiss on the IL.

Holloway has been decent as a reliever with like…a 0.00 ERA out of the bullpen this year. I’m so glad we’re still experimenting with him starting games though…

[rmc523]

 

1 hour ago, FishFry said:

The problem with that is not knowing how good or bad this team really is.  If Don was fired and the team looked totally different with a new coach it would show that the FO isn’t so much at fault with the roster and we could approach next year to what is really of need. 

 

We know the team struggles offensively......or at least at being consistent offensively.  But I really don't think this team is as bad as they've played - the starting pitching is clearly there already.  The offense has shown it can score runs, just not consistently - somehow we have the 1st and 7th RBI leaders in the NL on our team in Duvall/Aguilar.

 

For me the key problems come down to 3 factors:

1) The little things........last year this team really excelled at doing the little things right - whether it be minimizing errors, good baserunning/not getting picked off, etc. etc..   This year for whatever reason has been a 180 on that front it seems - we see a lot of errors, guys picked off left and right (somehow the official stats don't match the eye test)

2) Don's inexplicable decisions - I know I don't need to really explain this one, but bizarre unnecessary double switches early in the game, terrible usage of relievers, having relievers bat, etc, etc.

2b) Lack of DH to take decisions out of Don's hands - I increasingly think this is a big part of why they did better last year - no need for Don to overthink with reliever/player usage with the DH there.

3) Lack of urgency by both FO and team - the FO is completely silent when the team goes for weeks on end with 2/5 of the rotation and bullpen games.......weeks on end with a beyond short bench?   And then only when the team is 10+ under do they claim to be going for it/competing?  The team itself lacks any fire or energy that it had last year, and there's no sense of them tightening things up on the bases/field in order to make a run.  Just seems like there's a "well cross that game off the list, there's X of 162 left to go, we got time" mentality this year.

[Erick]

Holloway out of the pen this year

11 innings, 4 hits allowed, 11 K’s, 0.00 ERA.

Better to use Pop who had already done all he could to get out of the 7th and then bring in David Hess who, no offense to him, has been mostly a scrub in the big leagues and was just acquired — his first appearance as a Marlin.

It was honestly one of the worst games he’s managed this year despite the win, and that’s really saying something.

Lets not forget the fact that he let a reliever hit in the 6th and gave away an out for…well, not sure why exactly. I guess the reliever he let hit got 1 more out in the 7th so whoopty-doo.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Erick

[1.618]

 

10 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

The point was more that Bender has been good all around - you bring the best guy in to put out the obvious fire of bases loaded nobody out, and let the other guy have a clean inning with the lead still intact.

We seen Bender in this type situation were he inherited 2 runners in the 7th thanks to Bass  He walked and made an error and took the fall pushing him back Into the 7th role while Bass has the 8th again.  

This is why I didn’t want to see Bender in the 8th with bases loaded.  Not because he isn’t the best arm, but because he would be scapegoat and lose the closer spot with this inept organization. 

[rmc523]

32 minutes ago, FishFry said:

 

We seen Bender in this type situation were he inherited 2 runners in the 7th thanks to Bass  He walked and made an error and took the fall pushing him back Into the 7th role while Bass has the 8th again.  

This is why I didn’t want to see Bender in the 8th with bases loaded.  Not because he isn’t the best arm, but because he would be scapegoat and lose the closer spot with this inept organization. 

I guess that's a fair point.  But still, the game easily could've been over then and there.

[1.618]

2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I guess that's a fair point.  But still, the game easily could've been over then and there.

It took an ERA under 1.00 (0.71 to be exact) with half a season gone by just for Bender to be the closer.  

Why anybody would risk Bender for an 8th inning massacre in a losing season when he’s been demoted for a similar situation is....Almost Donnie like.