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Young Athletes and Mental Health


Das Texan
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So how much of a concern is this?

 

Are younger athletes just mentally weaker now?

 

or are the pressures they face from parents, friends et al greater than ever?

 

I was never good enough at sports to where it really mattered, so I dont know.

 

Thoughts?

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Human beings are generally weaker now and don't know how to cope with adversity. Also, while mental health issues are more openly discussed and accepted and this is a positive because people with these issues can seek help, I've also noticed a situation where having mental health issues becomes almost desired as if it's a trendy thing or something to do because it's cool because it's more accepted. So someone who might not really need mental help goes to therapy and embraces being depressed and all that because it's a cool thing to post on Instagram and so on. People are gravitating towards mental health issues now when in the past they ran away from it. 

I had someone ask my son if he was or wanted to be an introvert... I wanted to punch the other idiot. 

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21 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Human beings are generally weaker now and don't know how to cope with adversity. Also, while mental health issues are more openly discussed and accepted and this is a positive because people with these issues can seek help, I've also noticed a situation where having mental health issues becomes almost desired as if it's a trendy thing or something to do because it's cool because it's more accepted. So someone who might not really need mental help goes to therapy and embraces being depressed and all that because it's a cool thing to post on Instagram and so on. People are gravitating towards mental health issues now when in the past they ran away from it. 

I had someone ask my son if he was or wanted to be an introvert... I wanted to punch the other idiot. 

Bingo, Bullet!

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41 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Human beings are generally weaker now and don't know how to cope with adversity. Also, while mental health issues are more openly discussed and accepted and this is a positive because people with these issues can seek help, I've also noticed a situation where having mental health issues becomes almost desired as if it's a trendy thing or something to do because it's cool because it's more accepted. So someone who might not really need mental help goes to therapy and embraces being depressed and all that because it's a cool thing to post on Instagram and so on. People are gravitating towards mental health issues now when in the past they ran away from it. 

I had someone ask my son if he was or wanted to be an introvert... I wanted to punch the other idiot. 

Spanking your child became a big issue 20 years ago and we are seeing the byproduct of it now.  

Regarding sport athletes, its about self entitlement, larger than life persona built entirely by the social media.  The movie American Psycho isn’t so far fetched if they could get away with it. 

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8 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Diseases, both mental and physical are trendy now. Let us not forget the legions of people who have self diagnosed themselves with celiac disease

But muh gluten.

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On 7/27/2021 at 7:31 PM, SilverBullet said:

If you're really an introvert then so be it but just don't turn yourself into one because you wanna be like your friends.

i am.

 

and fuck my friends, let them do their own thing. 

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On 7/27/2021 at 4:56 PM, SilverBullet said:

Human beings are generally weaker now and don't know how to cope with adversity. Also, while mental health issues are more openly discussed and accepted and this is a positive because people with these issues can seek help, I've also noticed a situation where having mental health issues becomes almost desired as if it's a trendy thing or something to do because it's cool because it's more accepted. So someone who might not really need mental help goes to therapy and embraces being depressed and all that because it's a cool thing to post on Instagram and so on. People are gravitating towards mental health issues now when in the past they ran away from it. 

I had someone ask my son if he was or wanted to be an introvert... I wanted to punch the other idiot. 

Interesting POV, my friend. I think going to therapy is healthy and helpful even if one isn't clinically depressed. I do think "identities" get trendy out of a desire to fit in. That makes me think that we're doing a poor job as a society giving kids a sense of purpose and groundedness. I'm not sure exactly why that happens or how to shift it. I'd guess a big part of it is the move away from religion. I'm not a religious person, but I believe that a church, mosque, synagogue can function as "glue" for a community. If that changes, then we need something to take its place. But in general, nothing has taken the place of the religious institution.

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Just now, mystikol87 said:

The research is clear that spanking is terrible for kids.

There's people who spank their kids for every minor infraction and then there are parents who spank their kid for serious infractions. Those who get spanked for every little thing - yeah, gonna say it doesn't deter shit. There's no abity to discern which things are truly bad and which are just honest mistakes.  I fell in the latter camp though where I'd get spanked if I did something really bad but for small things I'd get more of a talking to, time out, etc. Worked for me pretty well - most of my friends grew up the same way and it worked for them too. I see the current 'process' of discipline failing miserably with those friends of mine who do have kids since their wives seem hellbent on following the non-corporal punishment routine.

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6 minutes ago, hovertical said:

There's people who spank their kids for every minor infraction and then there are parents who spank their kid for serious infractions. Those who get spanked for every little thing - yeah, gonna say it doesn't deter shit. There's no abity to discern which things are truly bad and which are just honest mistakes.  I fell in the latter camp though where I'd get spanked if I did something really bad but for small things I'd get more of a talking to, time out, etc. Worked for me pretty well - most of my friends grew up the same way and it worked for them too. I see the current 'process' of discipline failing miserably with those friends of mine who do have kids since their wives seem hellbent on following the non-corporal punishment routine.

From the article:

"Seven of the studies Gershoff and her team reviewed examined the association between the frequency of physical punishment and a child's negative behavior over time. Five of the seven found a 'dose-response effect,' she said.

'In other words, as physical punishment increased in frequency, so did its likelihood of predicting worse outcomes over time,' she said."

-----------------

Parents can discipline without spanking. The alternatives are boundaries, consequences, and consistency. But I'd imagine most parents either don't know how to use them or avoid them because they are harder than spanking. Spanking is the lazy way out, using a blunt tool rather than being precise. And that's on top of spanking's negative effects.

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1 minute ago, mystikol87 said:

From the article:

"Seven of the studies Gershoff and her team reviewed examined the association between the frequency of physical punishment and a child's negative behavior over time. Five of the seven found a 'dose-response effect,' she said.

'In other words, as physical punishment increased in frequency, so did its likelihood of predicting worse outcomes over time,' she said."

-----------------

Parents can discipline without spanking. The alternatives are boundaries, consequences, and consistency. But I'd imagine most parents either don't know how to use them or avoid them because they are harder than spanking. Spanking is the lazy way out, using a blunt tool rather than being precise. And that's on top of spanking's negative effects.

What are the negative effects I received from spanking? Please tell me so I can be aware.

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22 minutes ago, mystikol87 said:

The research is clear that spanking is terrible for kids.

I don’t deny that it can be but I think context is the key.  No one should spank their kids without first telling them why and what for.  They should also make it clear it’s because they love them before and after.  Kids aren’t dumb they will understand it as everyone learns from lessons in life.  I do agree that you should never cross the line from proper correction and nothing more that would be abusive.  Love should be the center in anything discipline.  More times than not, just the sound does the trick not the actual force applied but every child is different.

I might go into it a bit more and research the mental weaknesses in society based on the time frame when spanking became an issue. 

Again, I’m not saying spanking is the best remedy for every situation because it’s not.  There’s definitely some context too it. 

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14 minutes ago, mystikol87 said:

Um, I linked to a meta-analysis of studies on the effect of spanking. No need to be a brat.

My question to you, is did you actually read it? About 1/3 of the studies done still disagreed that spanking is harmful. That's a pretty big margin for error if we are to treat this as scientific fact. I also noticed that it refers to the type of spanking I was referring to as being harmful - that where the child is spanked constantly for everything. That's a no brainer there. In other words, pretty much supports what I agreed to. I do applaud your clever retort by calling me a brat though. Kudos.

Edited by hovertical
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5 hours ago, FishFry said:

I don’t deny that it can be but I think context is the key.  No one should spank their kids without first telling them why and what for.  They should also make it clear it’s because they love them before and after.  Kids aren’t dumb they will understand it as everyone learns from lessons in life.  I do agree that you should never cross the line from proper correction and nothing more that would be abusive.  Love should be the center in anything discipline.  More times than not, just the sound does the trick not the actual force applied but every child is different.

I might go into it a bit more and research the mental weaknesses in society based on the time frame when spanking became an issue. 

Again, I’m not saying spanking is the best remedy for every situation because it’s not.  There’s definitely some context too it. 

I can appreciate this. It won't be my style as a parent, but I see your perspective.

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16 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

I think thats bullshit and their metrics are odd.

I sure as fuck didnt act out more after getting my ass beat.

 

So I dont know who the fuck they asked. 

It's not a single study. It's an analysis of a variety of studies from a number of countries over time. Your experience is valid but also anecdotal. Even if the studies are true (so to speak), then individuals still can have different experiences. Those were their overall findings. But as @FishFry said, maybe there's some additional context that mitigates or shifts the expectation.

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5 hours ago, hovertical said:

My question to you, is did you actually read it? About 1/3 of the studies done still disagreed that spanking is harmful. That's a pretty big margin for error if we are to treat this as scientific fact. I also noticed that it refers to the type of spanking I was referring to as being harmful - that where the child is spanked constantly for everything. That's a no brainer there. In other words, pretty much supports what I agreed to. I do applaud your clever retort by calling me a brat though. Kudos.

Yes, I read it. It's a meta-analysis. From wiki: 

"A meta-analysis is a statistical analysis that combines the results of multiple scientific studies. Meta-analysis can be performed when there are multiple scientific studies addressing the same question, with each individual study reporting measurements that are expected to have some degree of error."

There certainly are different ways that spanking might show up. That's why I quoted the part of the article that I quoted several posts back. Here it is again:

From the article:

"Seven of the studies Gershoff and her team reviewed examined the association between the frequency of physical punishment and a child's negative behavior over time. Five of the seven found a 'dose-response effect,' she said.

'In other words, as physical punishment increased in frequency, so did its likelihood of predicting worse outcomes over time,' she said."

I didn't call you a brat to be clever, but I'll take it! I called you a brat because of the implicit tone of your post.

"What are the negative effects I received from spanking? Please tell me so I can be aware."

Like, there's no literally no way for me to answer that. It's not a real question. So, it's a bratty thing to say.

Edited by mystikol87
formatted weirdly the first time
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4 hours ago, mystikol87 said:

I can appreciate this. It won't be my style as a parent, but I see your perspective.

Appreciate that and good luck on your decision.   I thought I would add some thoughts about that article so here goes.

CNN: “A study published in April found spanking declined in the US between 1993 and 2017, partly due to changing attitudes among millennials and Gen X parents, who appear to be spanking their kids less than previous generations.”

There’s a piece in that article that somewhat confirms my 20 year time frame when parents started to adopt a more lenient attitude on spanking.  Although I believe it really became more prevalent as  “the right thing not to do” in the early 2000’s.   It appears the change in attitude was more of a cultural movement rather than actual scientific substance.  I’ll try and prove down below. 

CNN: “The pediatricians' group suggests adults caring for children use "healthy forms of discipline" -- such as positive reinforcement of appropriate behaviors, setting limits and setting expectations -- and not use spanking, hitting, slapping, threatening, insulting, humiliating or shaming.”

CNN: “hitting a child with an object; hitting or slapping on the face, head or ears; throwing an object at a child; beating; hitting with a fist; punching; kicking; washing a child's mouth out with soap; throwing down; choking; burning; scalding; and threatening with a knife or gun," Gershoff said.”

The article clearly lumps all the forms of discipline together without seperating spanking which is the main issue so aren’t you being a bit devious in your tittle attachment?  No offense partner.  

CNN is doing what CNN does, mislead people in believing lies are truths.  

CNN: “One study, done in Colombia in South America, found that young children who were physically punished gained "fewer cognitive skills" 

Look at this masterpiece. 

Here’s one study? Yep, they added “one” study to prove that children who were physically punished (didn’t say spanking how convenient) “gained”(WITW) “fewer” (make up your mind) cognitive skills.  

I would like to know what is the degree of difference between the physically punished and the ones who weren’t.  It was one test how hard could it be to chart out the margin of difference here, beside it doesn’t matter.  They are mixing all forms of punishment together because the one punishment “spanking” is contextual unlike all the others that are clearly abusive.

The article is a bottomless pit of bad journalism, all agenda based for one primary reason, to take fundamental Christianity out of society completely.  I can say this because I was spanked.  It’s the one thing my dad did right. 

 

Edited by FishFry
I was spanked
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Again, I think it works just fine as long as you're not wailing on your kid for every small infraction. You'll see that sometimes where a kid will just touch something on a shelf and the mom will slap him, etc. That's dumb and ineffective because it's done for everything and the kid will become numb to it and weigh the risk vs reward. I can count on two hands the number of times I was legit spanked and it helped me learn social boundaries real fast as clearly that was some real heinous shit I did. Again, these studies seem to be looking at the parents who just spank or hit their kids all the time - at least on the wording in the article. 

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Kids need a beating from time to time.

You cant beat them every day for every minor infraction.

But never getting a beating isnt the way to go either.

 

Basically the study is like, beating your kids as a primary way to discipline is wrong.  No fucking shit.  

 

I didnt read the whole thing, but does it address the behavior of kids NEVER beat?  My assumption is similar outcomes to those beat all the time.

 

Its a happy medium needed.  The title of that study results is such bullshit. 

But saying beating your child routinely is bad isnt as gotcha as simply saying beating child bad. 

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