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Marte traded to Athletics for Jesus Luzardo


SonOfJack
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16 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Real good get for the Marlins.

Told you Marte wasn't netting you a Joey Bart!  🤣

That said, real good get, significant risk and you really cant simply white wash what Luzardo has done this year as no big fucking deal.  The one concern is the similar one to a Brinson.  Why is he now in his third organization? 

But this is the kind of risk for a player you take with a rental.

Really cant say anything bad about this return at all!

I think everyone agreed, Marte alone wasn’t going to pay the bill for Bart.  The point of contention was your belief that the Giants wouldn’t trade Bart for Marte and pitching prospects who weren’t ready. 

I agree with your points on Luzardo. 

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44 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Real good get for the Marlins.

Told you Marte wasn't netting you a Joey Bart!  🤣

That said, real good get, significant risk and you really cant simply white wash what Luzardo has done this year as no big fucking deal.  The one concern is the similar one to a Brinson.  Why is he now in his third organization? 

But this is the kind of risk for a player you take with a rental.

Really cant say anything bad about this return at all!

I don’t think you brush off his struggles, but context paints a much more optimistic picture than baseball reference. 
 

For starter, Luzardo has already had success at the big league level, not to mention in the playoffs at an extremely young age. Brinson had not prior to being sent to Miami. 
 

As I mentioned earlier, Luzardo was brought up to the show extremely early. Had he pitched in AAA his age 22 and 23 seasons (like most big prospects) he would’ve absolutely dominated that league and probably positioned himself as a top 5 prospect in baseball.
 

The industry became infatuated with Edward Cabrera after dominating A+ and AA ball at age 21. Luzardo was dominating AAA and had a successful cup of coffee in the show at that age. 
 

Instead, Oak challenged (or rushed) him, and he responded quite well. This year has been rough for him, no doubt. But it’s also a total of about 60 IP at age 23 for a guy who wasn’t allowed proper time to develop. 
 

We basically just got an elite level pitching prospect who we’ve been able to see pitch in the majors some. All for 2 months of Marte.  
 

And the best part? We aren’t reliant on him developing into an ace. If he develops into a 2/3? Awesome. If not, totally fine. We have enough depth to fill in the spots. Even his worst case is a really intriguing reliever option 

Edited by marlins_09
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3 minutes ago, marlins_09 said:

I don’t think you brush off his struggles, but context paints a much more optimistic picture than baseball reference. 
 

For starter, Luzardo has already had success at the big league level, not to mention in the playoffs at an extremely young age. Brinson had not prior to being sent to Miami. 
 

As I mentioned earlier, Luzardo was brought up to the show extremely early. Had he pitched in AAA his age 22 and 23 seasons (like most big prospects) he would’ve absolutely dominated that league and probably positioned himself as a top 5 prospect in baseball.
 

The industry became infatuated with Edward Cabrera after dominating A+ and AA ball at age 21. Luzardo was dominating AAA and had a successful cup of coffee in the show at that age. 
 

Instead, Oak challenged (or rushed) him, and he responded quite well. This year has been rough for him, no doubt. But it’s also a total of about 60 IP at age 23 for a guy who wasn’t allowed proper time to develop. 
 

We basically just got an elite level pitching prospect who we’ve been able to see pitch in the majors some. All for 2 months of Marte.  
 

 

I don’t think the A’s would have made this trade based on that context you painted and I’m pretty confident they had those same thoughts.  With that said, it makes it a bit more skeptical if the trade was made because of his hand injury that they feel could be more damning from their perspective.  Let’s be real, no team is going to get a pitcher like Luzardo for Marte unless that team feels he could be somewhat damaged, wouldn’t you agree?   

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8 minutes ago, FishFry said:

I don’t think the A’s would have made this trade based on that context you painted and I’m pretty confident they had those same thoughts.  With that said, it makes it a bit more skeptical if the trade was made because of his hand injury that they feel could be more damning from their perspective.  Let’s be real, no team is going to get a pitcher like Luzardo for Marte unless that team feels he could be somewhat damaged, wouldn’t you agree?   

They could be wrong in whatever they're thinking. Trades generally have winners and losers, and nobody ever thinks they lost a trade before they agree to it.

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30 minutes ago, FishFry said:

I don’t think the A’s would have made this trade based on that context you painted and I’m pretty confident they had those same thoughts.  With that said, it makes it a bit more skeptical if the trade was made because of his hand injury that they feel could be more damning from their perspective.  Let’s be real, no team is going to get a pitcher like Luzardo for Marte unless that team feels he could be somewhat damaged, wouldn’t you agree?   

I think a team desperate to compete prior to a major sell off would. The A’s are going to lose a good amount of their pieces this year with guys getting expensive in arbitration...Olson, Chapman, Laureano, etc. This core likely won’t be around next year, and they desperately needed an OF piece to give them a chance. 
 

Also consider, outside of Gallo, impactful OF bats were few and far between. We now know the Rangers wanted a haul of prospects for Gallo. That paired with Gallo galloping around that spacious OF paint a good picture as to why they ponied up for Marte. Not to mention that fact that he costs them $0 this year with Miami paying the remainder of his salary
 

One last point, Oakland traded for Elvis Andrus this offseason instead of resigning Marcus Semien. Yes, Oakland is a smart team and is pretty protective of their prospects. But no team is perfect, especially not desperate ones 

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1 hour ago, FishFry said:

I think everyone agreed, Marte alone wasn’t going to pay the bill for Bart.  The point of contention was your belief that the Giants wouldn’t trade Bart for Marte and pitching prospects who weren’t ready. 

I agree with your points on Luzardo. 

There was no point of contention.

There was knowing what the Giants would do and what they wouldnt do.

For some reason you refused to believe me when I said, Bart wasn't coming to the Marlins for a package with Marte unless a young controllable established starter was included.

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25 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

There was no point of contention.

There was knowing what the Giants would do and what they wouldnt do.

For some reason you refused to believe me when I said, Bart wasn't coming to the Marlins for a package with Marte unless a young controllable established starter was included.

Lol so desperate. 

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17 hours ago, FishFan95 said:

For years when Brad Pitt said "There are rich teams, there are poor teams, and then there's 50 feet of crap. And then there's us." I always knew that the Marlins were under that even. Now that the Marlins are paying Marte's salary to get a better deal, I know that we have upgraded above the 50 feet of crap to just be a normal poor team. This is cause to celebrate!

This deal is a bit too much for Marte... I wonder if Billy Beane got the Marlins to restock his soda machine for the year? I know Jed Lowrie isn't too pleased about having to pay for soda.

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18 hours ago, FishFry said:

You forgot to mention this: “Triple-A level in 2021, where he's sporting a 6.52 ERA and a bloated walk rate (more than one every other inning) after eight outings”

It’s still a viable risk based on injury and yes, he has mighty struggled or the A’s wouldn’t have traded him.   

Again I’m not saying the trade is good or bad but rather it’s a bit of a risk more than I’d be ok with IMO.  I already know all the Marte details at this point. 

This is kind of silly to say. The Phillies traded us Sixto Sanchez for Realmuto. Why? Because they wanted Realmuto.

The Athletics are a desperate team trying to make one last push and needed an OF. So, they traded us a top prospect for Marte. This type of thing happens all the time, so you can literally make your argument about any trade.

Sample size matters. Luzardo has struggled over the course of 14 starts across AAA and the bigs this year. Do you know how many successful pitchers have had those types of struggles?

Again, I'm not saying there is no risk here. I'm just saying that if you can get this type of return for two months of nothing more than a solid player in Marte, you do it 10 out of 10 times.

Edited by Valid
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3 hours ago, Valid said:

This is kind of silly to say. The Phillies traded us Sixto Sanchez for Realmuto. Why? Because they wanted Realmuto.  

The Athletics are a desperate team trying to make one last push and needed an OF. So, they traded us a top prospect for Marte. This type of thing happens all the time, so you can literally make your argument about any trade.

Sample size matters. Luzardo has struggled over the course of 14 starts across AAA and the bigs this year. Do you know how many successful pitchers have had those types of struggles?

Again, I'm not saying there is no risk here. I'm just saying that if you can get this type of return for two months of nothing more than a solid player in Marte, you do it 10 out of 10 times.

This is kind of silly to say. The Phillies traded us Sixto Sanchez for Realmuto. Why? Because they wanted Realmuto.  

Huh!!  Most any ball club would have traded Sixto for Realmuto who had 2 years of control and was regarded as one of the top catchers.  Sixto was also coming of an injury at the time of the trade.  It was a no brainer for the Phillies who often make huge moves unlike the A’s.

The Athletics are a desperate team trying to make one last push and needed an OF. So, they traded us a top prospect for Marte. This type of thing happens all the time, so you can literally make your argument about any trade.

Yeah that’s true, but it’s the A’s who are notoriously known to covet their prospects.  They also rarely ever upgrade by trading prospects for rentals.  No doubt, the A’s are desperate but they aren’t stupid.

Again, maybe we got lucky, right place at the right time situation.

 

Sample size matters. Luzardo has struggled over the course of 14 starts across AAA and the bigs this year. Do you know how many successful pitchers have had those types of struggles?

Most every pitcher basically.  You’re giving me common reasoning here while missing my point that the A’s may have some belief that Luzardos hand injury could be more serious than we know.  This is speculation talk on my part but I’m not going to believe that it’s completely irrelevant.

 

Again, I'm not saying there is no risk here. I'm just saying that if you can get this type of return for two months of nothing more than a solid player in Marte, you do it 10 out of 10 times.

Thats what I have said over and over.  

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So Luzardo has been compared to Trevor and I see that they have basically the same 4 pitch mix. (Luzardo has a curveball, but it spins like a slider so it has more of a look of a slider. They both have similar numbers in the minors and Luzardo's struggles this year as a starter (7 starts, 28 innings) look similar to Trevor's in 6 starts last year.

One of the biggest things that Trevor has done is to ditch his sinker, which was his worst pitch to go to a 3 pitch mix. Trevor's whiff% and exit velocity on the remaining pitches are about where they were last year, but without the sinker, hitters are doing far less damage. Luzardo's worst pitch is actually his 4-seamer. He has gradually increased his use of it and hitters are taking advantage. I don't fully endorse him dropping it completely, but I do think it would be a good idea to rely more on the sinker with the 4-seamer coming out more sparingly. He could also work on mechanics as perhaps he is tipping something. Combine this with improving the changeup, which our guys have a knack of doing and I feel that Luzardo will be fine.

Edited by FishFan95
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31 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

So Luzardo has been compared to Trevor and I see that they have basically the same 4 pitch mix. (Luzardo has a curveball, but it spins like a slider so it has more of a look of a slider. They both have similar numbers in the minors and Luzardo's struggles this year as a starter (7 starts, 28 innings) look similar to Trevor's in 6 starts last year.

One of the biggest things that Trevor has done is to ditch his sinker, which was his worst pitch to go to a 3 pitch mix. Trevor's whiff% and exit velocity on the remaining pitches are about where they were last year, but without the sinker, hitters are doing far less damage. Luzardo's worst pitch is actually his 4-seamer. He has gradually increased his use of it and hitters are taking advantage. I don't fully endorse him dropping it completely, but I do think it would be a good idea to rely more on the sinker with the 4-seamer coming out more sparingly. He could also work on mechanics as perhaps he is tipping something. Combine this with improving the changeup, which our guys have a knack of doing and I feel that Luzardo will be fine.

This is some Charles Xavier mutant intelligence stuff right here. 

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5 minutes ago, marlinsmaniac said:

Was this spoken about here? Just reinforces my complete dislike of Monte Harrison

It was briefly I think in this thread or some other Marte thread.

Last I checked, Monte hadn't played in AAA since being optioned so it appears he was suspended by the team at least for a bit.

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11 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

It was briefly I think in this thread or some other Marte thread.

Last I checked, Monte hadn't played in AAA since being optioned so it appears he was suspended by the team at least for a bit.

Good.

God this Yelich trade gets more and more brutal by the day lol

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