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2022 bullpen


pollythewog
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Looks like they’re going to need to “revamp” it again.

I guess Bass has to stay since they’re paying him. Bender probably a lock. That’s really it so far? Any guys in minors? Maybe someone in FO will havd an epiphany that Holloway should be in pen

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Bass might be on the roster but he’s crap, I would get rid of him too. As I noted in the game thread they should bring up Mcinvale to see what he has, bring up Guzman to see if he figured out his hitability issues, and bring up basically anyone in the minors with high strikeout numbers to see what they can do. Either they blow games and it helps out draft stock, or you go into the off-season with 1-2 leas bullpen holes to fill

Edited by marlinsmaniac
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Just now, marlinsmaniac said:

Bass might be on the roster but he’s crap, I would get rid of him too. As I noted in the game thread they should bring up Mcinvale to see what he has, bring up Guzman to see if he figured out his hitability issues, and bring up basically anyone in the minors with high strikeout numbers to see what they can do. Either they blow games and it helps out draft stock, or you go into the off-season with 1-2 leas bullpen holes to fill

Mcinvale control issues pretty bad though?

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Bleier will be back, as well. (Unless he’s traded, which I doubt)

1 of Thompson/Elieser/Poteet (maybe 2) will probably end up in the pen. Holloway could be considered in that group, as well.

Another legit arm in the backend of the pen would be nice. 

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So far, i'd say Bass, Bleier, Floro, Bender, and Holloway should be in there.  Elieser I see as kinda being in a David Phelps type role - which is not the worst thing as I would've killed to have a guy like that on the team this season.  Any notable BP arms gonna be available in FA?

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1 hour ago, pollythewog said:

Team currently sits at 21 blown saves, truly pathetic number and a reflection on the pen sucking this year

I don't think that's a fair assessment.  Always having to to protect a 1 run lead leaves no room for error.  The bullpen wasn't great, but it wasn't that bad either.  With a good offense, there wouldn't have been 21 blown saves.  

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58 minutes ago, Erick said:

Bleier will be back, as well. (Unless he’s traded, which I doubt)

1 of Thompson/Elieser/Poteet (maybe 2) will probably end up in the pen. Holloway could be considered in that group, as well.

Another legit arm in the backend of the pen would be nice. 

I'd like to see all 4 of Thompson,  Poteet,  Elieser, and Holloway in the bullpen.  Guzman too for that matter.

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1 hour ago, Rydawg said:

I don't think that's a fair assessment.  Always having to to protect a 1 run lead leaves no room for error.  The bullpen wasn't great, but it wasn't that bad either.  With a good offense, there wouldn't have been 21 blown saves.  

This.

The Marlins rank fourth in the majors in bullpen ERA and fifth in WHIP. It hasn't been nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

As far as next season? Bullpens are, and always have been, largely a crapshoot. Yeah you get your elite relievers every now and then, but for every Josh Hader there are 20 Yimi Garcias, if not more. Just throw some of our live arms (Bender, Holloway, etc.) in there, add a couple of cheap options in FA or through small trades and hope for the best.

Edited by Valid
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13 minutes ago, Valid said:

This.

The Marlins rank fourth in the majors in bullpen ERA and fifth in WHIP. It hasn't been nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

As far as next season? Bullpens are, and always have been, largely a crapshoot. Yeah you get your elite relievers every now and then, but for every Josh Hader there are 20 Yimi Garcias, if not more. Just throw some of our live arms (Bender, Holloway, etc.) in there, add a couple of cheap options in FA or through small trades and hope for the best.

The problem is they've been good when not "needed" (wide spread games or when behind) and give up runs when we need them to be solid/not give up anything (1 run leads, tie games, etc).

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5 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

The problem is they've been good when not "needed" (wide spread games or when behind) and give up runs when we need them to be solid/not give up anything (1 run leads, tie games, etc).

That's fair, but I don't think it needs as much of a major overhaul as people are letting on. Adding a couple of cheap pieces could make all the difference. Again, bullpens are typically a crapshoot. What's great one year may suck the next and vice versa.

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9 hours ago, SongInTheAir said:

Wouldn't have that many with a good manager either. 

This is true too.

 

15 hours ago, Valid said:

That's fair, but I don't think it needs as much of a major overhaul as people are letting on. Adding a couple of cheap pieces could make all the difference. Again, bullpens are typically a crapshoot. What's great one year may suck the next and vice versa.

I'd agree with this - as @SongInTheAir also pointed out, without Don's bizarro moves, it wouldn't be as bad either.

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34 minutes ago, pollythewog said:

yimi and bass combined for 13 losses folks 

With about...7 of those being situations when Yimi and Bass clearly should not have been in the game. Can't blame every single one of those on Mattingly, but he shoulders plenty of the blame. 

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Bass, Bender, Bleier, Floro, and Pop will all be under contract for next year. Holloway and Elieser should come out of the bullpen in my opinion. The only other remotely viable options would be Hess and Okert. We should acquire at least 1 or 2 decent arms in FA (guys who can get strikeouts).

By the way, since June 6th, Bass has a 6.00 ERA in high leverage spots. While that seems bad, it would rank 10th in Team ERA in that situation (6th in the NL). He has a decent ERA overall, so I don't have a problem retaining him and using him in the middle innings. Pop can be optioned next year if necessary without losing him.

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On 8/1/2021 at 5:45 PM, Rydawg said:

The bullpen wasn't great, but it wasn't that bad either.

This is something I agree with. The FO might have gone a little contact pitcher heavy on our pen guys, so there aren't many guys available if you need a K. Still, they have be decent overall. This notion that they have been terrible, especially coming from people citing blown saves (a major fluke stat) is just crazy to me.

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Don’s is the main reason. 

•  Hasn’t pitched matchups all year

• Open starts have consumed the BP causing a shuffle in order on regular rotation days.

• No changing of the guard when a pitcher clearly doesn’t belong in that order. 

• Not using our best pitchers (closer) in extras to preserve them for who knows really.  

• He has intentionally walked batters unnecessarily loading the bases. 

• Doesn’t pull pitchers until it’s to late (Yimi vs the Pirates).

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Holloway should give them a guy who can strike guys out at least and I'm gonna bet Elieser will be able to do the same especially if he can go max effort as a bp arm. You'd also LIKE to think we won't have BP games as part of the regular rotation which should in theory help the arms in the pen too. 

 

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1 hour ago, hovertical said:

Holloway should give them a guy who can strike guys out at least and I'm gonna bet Elieser will be able to do the same especially if he can go max effort as a bp arm. You'd also LIKE to think we won't have BP games as part of the regular rotation which should in theory help the arms in the pen too. 

 

They really shouldn't have had BP games this year either.  Especially as many as they did.  Both if they had signed a vet in the offseason like I said, and in general should've just left one of the young guys in instead of BP games constantly.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

They really shouldn't have had BP games this year either.  Especially as many as they did.  Both if they had signed a vet in the offseason like I said, and in general should've just left one of the young guys in instead of BP games constantly.

Bullpen games are fine with a manager that knows what he's doing. The opener for 1 inning then Holloway for 4-5 games were perfect, but of course Dumb Mattingly goes with Detwiler for 8 runs instead.

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1 hour ago, SongInTheAir said:

Bullpen games are fine with a manager that knows what he's doing. The opener for 1 inning then Holloway for 4-5 games were perfect, but of course Dumb Mattingly goes with Detwiler for 8 runs instead.

Not when we had at least 2 a week for weeks on end.

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