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Kim Ng - after first full year


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8 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I didn't see the broadcast/interview, but here were a few comments over on the other marlins site that are concerning if it's really what she said.  I figured it was relevant to the discussion here.

 

-Apparently on the broadcast last night Kim Ng said Avisail Garcia "has been a 30 HR guy numerous times in his career." He's never hit more than 29 HRs, and that was last season. Before that, 20 was his high water mark. I so badly want it to work out with her both for the Marlins and what it would mean for women in sports, but it feels so much like she's in over her head.

-She was also touting Jorge Soler's On-Base ability as a lead-off man. He has a career OBP of .330, that's league average, you're not bringing him in for his On-Base ability. I don't know, she's toeing a company line, but I do wish she came off a little more knowledgeable.

-I didn't listen to the whole thing, but I heard it was pretty brutal. In a way, you feel for her because it's not the best situation for a GM. But it doesn't seem like she's done a very good job with the opportunities she's had here, and she's certainly not doing herself any favors whenever she speaks publicly.

Maybe a senior professional baseball people like Ng would only scouts the players by the intuition and not by the real data ……

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9 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I didn't see the broadcast/interview, but here were a few comments over on the other marlins site that are concerning if it's really what she said.  I figured it was relevant to the discussion here.

 

-Apparently on the broadcast last night Kim Ng said Avisail Garcia "has been a 30 HR guy numerous times in his career." He's never hit more than 29 HRs, and that was last season. Before that, 20 was his high water mark. I so badly want it to work out with her both for the Marlins and what it would mean for women in sports, but it feels so much like she's in over her head.

-She was also touting Jorge Soler's On-Base ability as a lead-off man. He has a career OBP of .330, that's league average, you're not bringing him in for his On-Base ability. I don't know, she's toeing a company line, but I do wish she came off a little more knowledgeable.

-I didn't listen to the whole thing, but I heard it was pretty brutal. In a way, you feel for her because it's not the best situation for a GM. But it doesn't seem like she's done a very good job with the opportunities she's had here, and she's certainly not doing herself any favors whenever she speaks publicly.

it's odd, my general feeling from the interview was that she didn't want to be there...felt uncomfortable in front of the camera and had been fed lines by PR or Sherman to hype up the new players to the casual fan who won't look up those numbers and call them out. I know I didn't really blink twice at anything she said, but part of me also didnt care. I got my 4 innings of baseball in this month.

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1 hour ago, Piazza31 said:

it's odd, my general feeling from the interview was that she didn't want to be there...felt uncomfortable in front of the camera and had been fed lines by PR or Sherman to hype up the new players to the casual fan who won't look up those numbers and call them out. I know I didn't really blink twice at anything she said, but part of me also didnt care. I got my 4 innings of baseball in this month.

yeah hearing Garcia as a perennial 30hr guy and Soler's "high obp" was bizarre....almost to the point you wonder if that's why they're batting Soler leadoff every damn game. My wife and I were both sitting there listening to the conversation and couldn't believe we heard what we thought we heard - to the point we rewound it to make sure we heard correctly.

I mean, how does a GM just NOT KNOW that's wrong??!!?!??!?!? 

In regard to her being "fed" info from PR etc or SHerman, I don't think that's the case.  I think it's quite possibly this is who she is.  She's always come across as rather low energy, quiet, and reserved any time I've seen or heard her interviewed.  To constantly say someone else is making her do this, say that, etc. I think is inaccurate.  She just seems in over her head in the GM role as evidenced alone by the fact that she seems incapable of working on more than one thing at a time.  I bought into the hype too and if anyone doubts it go back and check my posts when she was hired but she's been VERY underwhelming in her time here.  Not train wreck bad - but for all the hype...yeah she's been very underwhelming overall and seems to have some glaring weaknesses in her GM "style".

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8 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Yea this was mentioned in the game thread that night but I chalk that one up to her saying generic/vague responses on tv. I really pray she isn't that clueless. 

Edit: imagine if she was actually just trolling everyone lmao

I unfortunately missed the game and usually don't read the game threads fully after the fact/when I miss a game as they're locked for replies anyway.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 4/16/2022 at 11:15 AM, Piazza31 said:

it's odd, my general feeling from the interview was that she didn't want to be there...felt uncomfortable in front of the camera and had been fed lines by PR or Sherman to hype up the new players to the casual fan who won't look up those numbers and call them out. I know I didn't really blink twice at anything she said, but part of me also didnt care. I got my 4 innings of baseball in this month.

I mean, creating a story that includes a MLB GM being fed PR lines for a baseball interview is about as conspiracy as conspiracy gets. You’re telling me the General Manager of a Major League Baseball team, needs PR reps to tell them how to discuss baseball (to an already bias source whose feeding softballs). 
 

Not buying that one bit. MAYBE if it was some rugged, old school baseball guy who had a drinking problem. Feeding Kim Ng PR lines makes no sense. 

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4 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

She has done a bad job.

yep.  People can debate all they want to about how much she was permitted to spend by Sherman in the last two offseasons but now that we're a bit into the season we see that she can't even perform the basic duties of calling up and/or sending down the right players.  We all know last season was like this as well when the roster was just inexplicably left short and we just had bullpen game after bullpen game for no reason.  She's pretty freaking bad at this job.

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On 4/14/2022 at 2:42 PM, SonOfJack said:

I give her credit for that already. She hasn't done everything wrong, but she sure as hell has done some things wrong.

This. I’ve obviously been vocal about Kim. It doesn’t mean she’s done EVERYTHING wrong.

We’ll sit here for hours and debate if a SP prospect has a good enough 3rd pitch to be a MLB pitcher. If a particular lineup is good enough to compete for WS titles. We need to have a conversation about if our GM is good enough to take this team from rebuilding to truly competitive. GM was way too important to simply say, “Meh, they’re ok” and then truly expect to win

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1 hour ago, marlins_09 said:

This. I’ve obviously been vocal about Kim. It doesn’t mean she’s done EVERYTHING wrong.

We’ll sit here for hours and debate if a SP prospect has a good enough 3rd pitch to be a MLB pitcher. If a particular lineup is good enough to compete for WS titles. We need to have a conversation about if our GM is good enough to take this team from rebuilding to truly competitive. GM was way too important to simply say, “Meh, they’re ok” and then truly expect to win

The trades she HAS made have been pretty decent.  But everything else hasn't. 

Ignored clear needs of the team.  Signed middle at best tier guys to apparently the whole budget.  Can't figure out how to call up players to help the team.....you know.....win.  One move at a time only.

 

And on top of that, you know the organization is going to get absolutely trashed if/when they do ever let her go.......heck, even if they just don't renew her contract, it'll be the same as Hill but worse.   MARLINS GET RID OF ONLY WOMAN GM!!!!  THE FISH CUT BAIT ON FEMALE GM!!!   FISH PULL THE HOOK ON A WOMAN GM!!!!!!!!    When in reality it's performance-related.

 

I can also understand the patience of giving her some time initially, but she should have it more figured out by now.

Edited by rmc523
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57 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

All the more frustrating, imagine their record with a motivated owner, a savvy GM, and a competent manager!

1000%

They seem to think "look how close we are, we don't need to do anything more", rather than "we're so close, lets push the pedal down and go for it".

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I cant fault Ng for the free agency moves.

Thats based on edicts given from ownership.  You work with what you have and the Soler move was about Sherman giving Jeter the middle finger to change that narrative.

The trades, probably more on her, but I do wonder how much that is the control of Denbo.  Still, she is the point person, so thats on her in the end.

The roster moves, curious at best, that falls on her.

Not calling up a prospect and starting his clock is probably a combination again of her and Denbo.  

I think people forget the Denbo factor (fuck him).  But its still her responsibility to effectively communicate that to your fan base.  She hasnt done a good enough job in that respect.

The manager also is probably out of her control as well, so cant fault her for not sacking Mattingly (yet).  

C + to B - is her overall grade in my eyes.

If she has more control over prospects and the starting of the clock then she is lookign at a C- to D + in terms of things she can actually control.  

Again ignoring the free agent market which is largely out of her control given the miserly ways of ownership. 

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4 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

I cant fault Ng for the free agency moves.

Thats based on edicts given from ownership.  You work with what you have and the Soler move was about Sherman giving Jeter the middle finger to change that narrative.

The trades, probably more on her, but I do wonder how much that is the control of Denbo.  Still, she is the point person, so thats on her in the end.

The roster moves, curious at best, that falls on her.

Not calling up a prospect and starting his clock is probably a combination again of her and Denbo.  

I think people forget the Denbo factor (fuck him).  But its still her responsibility to effectively communicate that to your fan base.  She hasnt done a good enough job in that respect.

The manager also is probably out of her control as well, so cant fault her for not sacking Mattingly (yet).  

C + to B - is her overall grade in my eyes.

If she has more control over prospects and the starting of the clock then she is lookign at a C- to D + in terms of things she can actually control.  

Again ignoring the free agent market which is largely out of her control given the miserly ways of ownership. 

I’m not saying you’re wrong, because I don’t have any hard proof on whose making what moves. By why do we have so many questions of what she’s in control of and what might fall on other peoples plates? 
 

I get this is a front office and everyone wants to be “collective”, but what’s the point of bringing her in to be GM if she isn’t calling a *majority* of the shots in terms of final roster? Of course, within budget constraints and ownership things. Got it. But using Denbo as a cushion doesn’t seem right to me. Again, not that he might not deserve some blame, but I’m evaluating this based of a simple question, “Do we have a championship caliber GM?”. At the end of the day, we have to use FA/Trade transactions, in-season roster management, and specifically in our case, prospect management as the key measuring sticks. I’ve seen enough to have a clear answer IMO. Does that make her “awful”? Maybe not. But I’m not seeing enough to prove she can be creative enough nor aggressive enough to change the trajectory of this org in a major way 

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She's just been awful at the basic day to day stuff a GM should be able to do in their sleep. If she sucks at that I don't know how anyone can expect her to do the more complicated pieces.  She didn't even know anything about Garcia or Soler for crying out loud...whether those signings were due to Jeter and Denbo or not. She clearly had ZERO clue about them as players. That's......pretty bad.  

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9 hours ago, marlins_09 said:

By why do we have so many questions of what she’s in control of and what might fall on other peoples plates? 

Some people seem to use it as an excuse to give her more free passes in my experience. Some keep saying she may not be in control of this or that when something is done incorrectly. But somehow she is at the same time deserving of full credit for any positive moves.

Mike Hill, Larry Beinfest, and frankly any GM ever I can remember didn't get as much leeway from some fans as Ng seems to get.

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2 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

 

Mike Hill, Larry Beinfest, and frankly any GM ever I can remember didn't get as much leeway from some fans as Ng seems to get.

And as @rmc523 others, and myself has said - if she were to be fired for incompetence the immediate headlines would be awful. "Marlins chase off greatest ballplayer of all time and fire first female GM!" I paraphrase but you know the headlines would really make the Marlins look awful. There would be ZERO mention of the many failures she's had that have been outline on here and the only thing brought up would be some of the trades during her tenure and then some random quotes about how her pedigree alone means she's more than qualified (even though she sucks at this).

Then again, there are like a few thousand Marlins fans left so if that's what it takes to get things turned back around then I'm all for it. We've endured worse.

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