5/10 Post Game

[SonOfJack]

We lost, again.

[Michael]

37 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

We lost, again.

What? No ... impossible.

[SilverBullet]

[SilverBullet]

I hope the front office and the marketing/ticket sales/etc people realize that this is why nobody gives a shit about this team when they're in first or second place or having a winning month or a 7 game winning streak or All Star players or anything that actually shows on field success because this team always shits the bed right after it. You can guarantee any Marlins on field success is about to be followed by a disastrous fall back down to reality. 

If you tried to tell people about the 7 game winning streak and the good April a few weeks ago they probably predicted they'd start sucking bad real soon because it's just what the Marlins always do.

This community will not care or show any ticket buying commitment to the team until they've actually clinched a playoff spot or are in strong strong contention in mid September. 

And why should they, this organization has so much work to do even with all the positive work they've already done. The aura around this team is so bad it's embarrassing. 

[Entendu]

Maybe the team is cursed?

[hovertical]

42 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I hope the front office and the marketing/ticket sales/etc people realize that this is why nobody gives a shit about this team when they're in first or second place or having a winning month or a 7 game winning streak or All Star players or anything that actually shows on field success because this team always shits the bed right after it. You can guarantee any Marlins on field success is about to be followed by a disastrous fall back down to reality. 

If you tried to tell people about the 7 game winning streak and the good April a few weeks ago they probably predicted they'd start sucking bad real soon because it's just what the Marlins always do.

This community will not care or show any ticket buying commitment to the team until they've actually clinched a playoff spot or are in strong strong contention in mid September. 

And why should they, this organization has so much work to do even with all the positive work they've already done. The aura around this team is so bad it's embarrassing. 

Yep. Sherman keeps wanting fans first before any real upgrades. Doesn't work like that though so instead he appears to be happy just raking in his money from all the other sources. He's just not an actual fan of baseball and unlike Loria seems to show no desire to win at all. Yes, I just defended Loria in that statement 😞

[SilverBullet]

1 hour ago, Entendu said:

Maybe the team is cursed?

Vince was right.

[SilverBullet]

Because a) the team is so bad now and b) the way MLB.com does postgame recaps now is awful and c) de Nicola is a disappointment... the postgame recap article on MLB.com is about Cody Poteet's four innings pitched. 

Can't stand the way MLB.com does their recaps now. If I read that article I don't actually understand what happened in the game as far as summarizing the game. They used to be so much better at this. What a shame.

[Michael]

11 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

[Redacted] was right.

We don't say that name here.

[SongInTheAir]

3 hours ago, Entendu said:

Maybe the team is cursed?

by Don Mattingly? 

[Das Texan II]

This team is what this team is.

Cheap.

That's the curse.  This team has been owned by fucking carpetbaggers that dont have a fucking clue of the market since Wayne sold the team and said I won a title I"m out.

So they go with this New York (mostly) idiotic mindset.

If MLB was serious about building a winning brand in Miami they would have forced the sale to Mas.

Instead yet another carpetbagger, who just keeps on getting richer and richer.

Why sell?  Why spend more?

Sherman's pockets get more lined with Benji's on a yearly basis thanks to the Marlins!  

[Das Texan II]

4 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

I hope the front office and the marketing/ticket sales/etc people realize that this is why nobody gives a shit about this team when they're in first or second place or having a winning month or a 7 game winning streak or All Star players or anything that actually shows on field success because this team always shits the bed right after it. You can guarantee any Marlins on field success is about to be followed by a disastrous fall back down to reality. 

If you tried to tell people about the 7 game winning streak and the good April a few weeks ago they probably predicted they'd start sucking bad real soon because it's just what the Marlins always do.

This community will not care or show any ticket buying commitment to the team until they've actually clinched a playoff spot or are in strong strong contention in mid September. 

And why should they, this organization has so much work to do even with all the positive work they've already done. The aura around this team is so bad it's embarrassing. 

And this summarizes everything so perfectly.

Ownership doesnt have a fucking clue how the market works.

I"ve tried to say time and again the only way to build a fan base is to spend money and put a playoff team on the field.  This is now the second time you could argue this could be done 1. when they bought the fucking team and 2. now.

Both times ownership has elected to say fuck it and focus on dollars instead.  

In order to build a winner and establish fan support you have to pay for the sins of the father, in this case past ownership groups.

I've been saying this since this fucking group took over and the vast majority wanted to believe some other narrative and some other story that sounded all flowery and nice.

Reality is what reality is.

Welcome aboard. 

[MarlinsLou]

18 minutes ago, Das Texan II said:

And this summarizes everything so perfectly.

Ownership doesnt have a fucking clue how the market works.

I"ve tried to say time and again the only way to build a fan base is to spend money and put a playoff team on the field.  This is now the second time you could argue this could be done 1. when they bought the fucking team and 2. now.

Both times ownership has elected to say fuck it and focus on dollars instead.  

In order to build a winner and establish fan support you have to pay for the sins of the father, in this case past ownership groups.

I've been saying this since this fucking group took over and the vast majority wanted to believe some other narrative and some other story that sounded all flowery and nice.

Reality is what reality is.

Welcome aboard. 

Yes - the concept of "we'll bake better bread when you start buying our current bread" is not how anything in life works. Make the better bread and people will buy it. Scale the business.

I think we could all get behind a 3-4 year rebuild based on what they inherited (everyone gets a 2020 mulligan too), but for the love of fuck how do they have the 26th lowest payroll in year 5 with the TV/naming rights finally done, and spending shit for 4 years. You could increase payroll 1/3rd and still be bottom 22nd in payroll. That's how low it is. It's outrageous. Maybe if you become as good as the Rays you can do that, but you're not that today, tomorrow, or 2-3 years with the offensive players you have now and coming soon.

They should have an organizational meeting and watch Field of Dreams. It's really that easy. Nothing is going to change until they commit to the team, which is just amazingly bizarre given they did sign Garcia/Soler. I don't know why you get to 3rd base on the offseason and just stop. Signing Correa and/or trading Eury/Cabrera for Reynolds (and trade Aguilar/Cooper for some money help) to move to that 22nd payroll range or get a star is not a large ask at all.

As I keep saying - the problems are Bruce, Bruce, and Bruce, and then we can bitch about Kim and Don. Payroll needs to be $100-110m next year no excuses.

[MarlinsLou]

3 hours ago, hovertical said:

Yep. Sherman keeps wanting fans first before any real upgrades. Doesn't work like that though so instead he appears to be happy just raking in his money from all the other sources. He's just not an actual fan of baseball and unlike Loria seems to show no desire to win at all. Yes, I just defended Loria in that statement 😞

Yes. For all of his faults and there are many, Loria and Samson would have the vision right now to have seen this exact team (with or without Garcia/Soler) in the offseason and determined, if we spend another $25-35 in FA and/or trade 3-4 of our top 12 prospects for a stud CF, we'd have a projectable 85-88+ win team with more upside on top and we'll go get Ugeth Urbina types at the deadline if need be. They would have played to win, and if it didn't work, have the creativity to firesale out of it to stay on brand in 2 years, knowing they'd STILL have a very good young controlled core.

Bruce and/or Kim determined, let's field a 78-81 win team with the 26th lowest payroll in baseball after not spending any money for 4 years, with 5-8 top 100-125 prospects we will not trade (which prospects are mostly redundant as the organization has 10+ longterm SP candidates all controlled for years). Like seriously WTF is this thought process beyond "we are cheap to a fault and literally don't care."

[hovertical]

19 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Yes. For all of his faults and there are many, Loria and Samson would have the vision right now to have seen this exact team (with or without Garcia/Soler) in the offseason and determined, if we spend another $25-35 in FA and/or trade 3-4 of our top 12 prospects for a stud CF, we'd have a projectable 85-88+ win team with more upside on top and we'll go get Ugeth Urbina types at the deadline if need be. They would have played to win, and if it didn't work, have the creativity to firesale out of it to stay on brand in 2 years, knowing they'd STILL have a very good young controlled core.

Bruce and/or Kim determined, let's field a 78-81 win team with the 26th lowest payroll in baseball after not spending any money for 4 years, with 5-8 top 100-125 prospects we will not trade (which prospects are mostly redundant as the organization has 10+ longterm SP candidates all controlled for years). Like seriously WTF is this thought process beyond "we are cheap to a fault and literally don't care."

I also believe Loria probably would have gotten Correa based on the contract he did end up signing which seemed like a Loria wet dream. Dunno about what else he would have done (I think Marte would have been brought back too though). Most concerning thing would have been what batshit crazy deadline deal trade he'd force through for subpar talent.

[SongInTheAir]

12 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I also believe Loria probably would have gotten Correa based on the contract he did end up signing which seemed like a Loria wet dream. Dunno about what else he would have done (I think Marte would have been brought back too though). Most concerning thing would have been what batshit crazy deadline deal trade he'd force through for subpar talent.

We'd have Correa and Marte, but we would have given up Meyer for like, a month of Kenley Jansen last season. And Eury for like, Mike Moustakas or something.

[MarlinsLou]

3 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I also believe Loria probably would have gotten Correa based on the contract he did end up signing which seemed like a Loria wet dream. Dunno about what else he would have done (I think Marte would have been brought back too though). Most concerning thing would have been what batshit crazy deadline deal trade he'd force through for subpar talent.

I agree. Jeff would have signed Correa, not signed Soler as a response, and told Ng to trade one of Watson/Eury, one of Meyer/Cabrera, Burdick, and another 10-15th ranked prospect (plus throw ins outside top 25) for Reynolds and Bednar and we'll figure out 2026 in 2025. The two main prospects hurt, but it's Correa and Reynolds so who cares. Just win baby. Kick DLC/Gonzalez/Dunand spot and Soler off the team (as well as whoever the worst RP) and add Correa, Reynolds, and Bednar. This is an 8-10 win improvement easily. 

Payroll would be around $100-105m. And if Jeff ordered "under $100m" kick Aguilar/Cooper off the team also, and promote Lewin (while waiting on Bleday who is awesome now maybe?). So we'd call that an 8+ win improvement for a really negligible amount of money (as you'd also be making more money as people would care with that team. It would be the best Marlins team on paper since 2003-2005 with a verifiable superstar).

Bruce sucks. It's that easy of an analysis. Lucky for him, Correa will opt out and Xander and Trea are FA so there are 3 opportunities to right this offseason wrong.

[Iowa]

The Marlins got back to me and said they would not refund my MLB TV

[hovertical]

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

I agree. Jeff would have signed Correa, not signed Soler as a response, and told Ng to trade one of Watson/Eury, one of Meyer/Cabrera, Burdick, and another 10-15th ranked prospect (plus throw ins outside top 25) for Reynolds and Bednar and we'll figure out 2026 in 2025. The two main prospects hurt, but it's Correa and Reynolds so who cares. Just win baby. Kick DLC/Gonzalez/Dunand spot and Soler off the team (as well as whoever the worst RP) and add Correa, Reynolds, and Bednar. This is an 8-10 win improvement easily. 

Payroll would be around $100-105m. And if Jeff ordered "under $100m" kick Aguilar/Cooper off the team also, and promote Lewin (while waiting on Bleday who is awesome now maybe?). So we'd call that an 8+ win improvement for a really negligible amount of money (as you'd also be making more money as people would care with that team. It would be the best Marlins team on paper since 2003-2005 with a verifiable superstar).

Bruce sucks. It's that easy of an analysis. Lucky for him, Correa will opt out and Xander and Trea are FA so there are 3 opportunities to right this offseason wrong.

it feels so disgusting anytime I defend Loria

[CyggyMarlin]

How many years are we into this rebuild now and what do we have to show for it?

1) A cheap owner and a terrible manager.

2) A 4th place team that cannot stay over .500, effectively wasting a good starting rotation.  OK, Luzardo struggled last night allowing 2 runs at the time he was lifted and then Head inflated it to 4 runs allowed.   Elieser has no business being in the rotation. If or when Hernandez is replaced, this rotation gets even better, but will still flounder because of...

3) An offense that is underperforming and full of average players, some of which are regressing to sub-average.  I like Rojas but he is not the hitter he was a few years ago. Even Anderson can be upgraded offensively. Stallings would not hurt the offense so bad if the rest of the line-up was more consistent. Jazz is emerging as a star yet has to sit against lefties so that Sanchez can swing from his knees.  Sanchez was on pace for 32 Home Runs last season had he played at least 150 games.  This year, he is on pace for 15+.  He continues to chase high fastballs and is constantly late on pitches he should be crushing.  Someone screwed with his hitting mechanics and it shows; he looks lost at the plate. Soler and Garcia are average pick-ups if they actually start to hit more.  There is no elite player. It all comes from cheapskate Sherman.  You better your club by getting elite players when one becomes available; it also improves attendance and the chances of the team making playoffs.  In 2018, the Padres finished 66 and 96, yet they went out with a last place record and got Manny Machado because they knew they had a farm system full of good prospects.  Which brings me to...

4) The Farm System.  The last few years, it's ranked Top 5.  But it's almost all pitching.  Where are our big bats?  Lewin is no longer a Top 30 and is hitting .260 in AAA (And a .193 hitter in 161 MLB AB's)... Watson is whiffing at a 40%+ rate.  Jerar is raking in AA yet he is not promoted to AAA. Bleday is showing signs but can he hit at the MLB level? The Top 30 is FULL of pitchers that this organization likes to hoard.  It's disappointing that we have not drafted any impact bats that have reached MLB since Sherman took over., forcing them to get players like Soler and Garcia. Yeah, it's Top5, but the farm system has serious flaws...

They said they had a plan and I bought into it.  "Respect the process" I was told.  All I am seeing is a 4th place team with mediocre offense, the chance at having the best rotation in baseball wasted, a genuine lack of star power, a farm system that could be used to make this team better but isn't, and an overall sense that this idiot owner and dumbass manager have no sense of urgency or a clue as to what they are doing to field a winning team.  

[MarlinsLou]

1 minute ago, CyggyMarlin said:

How many years are we into this rebuild now and what do we have to show for it?

1) A cheap owner and a terrible manager.

2) A 4th place team that cannot stay over .500, effectively wasting a good starting rotation.  OK, Luzardo struggled last night allowing 2 runs at the time he was lifted and then Head inflated it to 4 runs allowed.   Elieser has no business being in the rotation. If or when Hernandez is replaced, this rotation gets even better, but will still flounder because of...

3) An offense that is underperforming and full of average players, some of which are regressing to sub-average.  I like Rojas but he is not the hitter he was a few years ago. Even Anderson can be upgraded offensively. Stallings would not hurt the offense so bad if the rest of the line-up was more consistent. Jazz is emerging as a star yet has to sit against lefties so that Sanchez can swing from his knees.  Sanchez was on pace for 32 Home Runs last season had he played at least 150 games.  This year, he is on pace for 15+.  He continues to chase high fastballs and is constantly late on pitches he should be crushing.  Someone screwed with his hitting mechanics and it shows; he looks lost at the plate. Soler and Garcia are average pick-ups if they actually start to hit more.  There is no elite player. It all comes from cheapskate Sherman.  You better your club by getting elite players when one becomes available; it also improves attendance and the chances of the team making playoffs.  In 2018, the Padres finished 66 and 96, yet they went out with a last place record and got Manny Machado because they knew they had a farm system full of good prospects.  Which brings me to...

4) The Farm System.  The last few years, it's ranked Top 5.  But it's almost all pitching.  Where are our big bats?  Lewin is no longer a Top 30 and is hitting .260 in AAA (And a .193 hitter in 161 MLB AB's)... Watson is whiffing at a 40%+ rate.  Jerar is raking in AA yet he is not promoted to AAA. Bleday is showing signs but can he hit at the MLB level? The Top 30 is FULL of pitchers that this organization likes to hoard.  It's disappointing that we have not drafted any impact bats that have reached MLB since Sherman took over., forcing them to get players like Soler and Garcia. Yeah, it's Top5, but the farm system has serious flaws...

They said they had a plan and I bought into it.  "Respect the process" I was told.  All I am seeing is a 4th place team with mediocre offense, the chance at having the best rotation in baseball wasted, a genuine lack of star power, a farm system that could be used to make this team better but isn't, and an overall sense that this idiot owner and dumbass manager have no sense of urgency or a clue as to what they are doing to field a winning team.  

1 - Owner cannot be fixed but he can spend more, manager can be fixed

2 - In the grand scheme of things, if they suck in 2022, the arms are still controlled so the rotation is set for 5+ years with what they have more than likely. This doesn't need to be rebuilt or fixed. Stay the course

3 - They need to trade a pitcher for a bat (CENTER FIELDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and go BIG in FA next year - Correa, Turner, Boegarts, Arenado. It's the only way absent a $130-150m budget. This goes back to the first half of # 1 where they need budget to operate in, both in getting a star and having a reserve to rebuild the farm IFA/plug holes at MLB level (like Stallings/Wendle/Rojas/Aguilar type acquisitions). 

4 - The farm is really good. I wouldn't worry about this or what Watson is doing as a teenager. They also have great picks this year and not much beyond Meyer/Cabrera/Sixto is going to graduate so they will have a strong ranking moving forward. Top of the farm next year is likely (sans trades).... Watson, Eury, # 1 pick 2022, Bleday, Eder (healthy), Salas, Fulton, Mack, Burdick, Lewis, # 2 pick 2022, Cappe, McCambley, etc. This is pretty good with the first 4-7 guys having huge upside. Also if they suck - they are going to trade 5-10 expendable guys at the deadline this year (Pablo, Anderson, Hernandez, many relievers) and likely add to this. No worries here - which includes tons of guys at MLB level controlled 4-6 years. Stay the course.

 

All roads lead back to the first half of your # 1. They need a $100-110m sustained payroll so they can fit in "Correa/Turner/Boegarts" and another "Garcia/Soler", while being able to afford arbitration raises.  Maybe a year of watching this pitching and offense floundering is what Bruce needs to pull that Machado trigger as you call it. If Luzardo and Meyer are break outs, Sandy is Sandy, and Rogers course corrects to at least a longterm # 3/very good # 4 SP (obviously he can be more), it's malpractice to do nothing with.... Eury and Eder coming.

Basically

-Sign Correa/Xander/Boegarts/maybe Arenado
-Trade SP for CF for the love of god
-Draft a college bat with pick #6 in the draft and hope they move much, much faster than Bleday

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Yes - the concept of "we'll bake better bread when you start buying our current bread" is not how anything in life works. Make the better bread and people will buy it. Scale the business.

I think we could all get behind a 3-4 year rebuild based on what they inherited (everyone gets a 2020 mulligan too), but for the love of fuck how do they have the 26th lowest payroll in year 5 with the TV/naming rights finally done, and spending shit for 4 years. You could increase payroll 1/3rd and still be bottom 22nd in payroll. That's how low it is. It's outrageous. Maybe if you become as good as the Rays you can do that, but you're not that today, tomorrow, or 2-3 years with the offensive players you have now and coming soon.

They should have an organizational meeting and watch Field of Dreams. It's really that easy. Nothing is going to change until they commit to the team, which is just amazingly bizarre given they did sign Garcia/Soler. I don't know why you get to 3rd base on the offseason and just stop. Signing Correa and/or trading Eury/Cabrera for Reynolds (and trade Aguilar/Cooper for some money help) to move to that 22nd payroll range or get a star is not a large ask at all.

As I keep saying - the problems are Bruce, Bruce, and Bruce, and then we can bitch about Kim and Don. Payroll needs to be $100-110m next year no excuses.

Yeah there were two paths when they bought the team….well, 3 but 2 proper ones:

1) take the existing team and spend a ton on top of it to plug the holes (pitching at the time)

2) fire sale and rebuild, with the promise to spend down the road when they’re “ready”

3) nothing

 

they went for option 2 which is fine, BUT contingent on the latter part - spending when it’s time.  It’s time.  It was past time last offseason (2020-2021), but they skipped it, it was beyond time to spend this recent offseason, and they took the “we did something” approach rather than the full salvo they needed to take, and we’re seeing the results of that approach.

 

2 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Yes. For all of his faults and there are many, Loria and Samson would have the vision right now to have seen this exact team (with or without Garcia/Soler) in the offseason and determined, if we spend another $25-35 in FA and/or trade 3-4 of our top 12 prospects for a stud CF, we'd have a projectable 85-88+ win team with more upside on top and we'll go get Ugeth Urbina types at the deadline if need be. They would have played to win, and if it didn't work, have the creativity to firesale out of it to stay on brand in 2 years, knowing they'd STILL have a very good young controlled core.

Bruce and/or Kim determined, let's field a 78-81 win team with the 26th lowest payroll in baseball after not spending any money for 4 years, with 5-8 top 100-125 prospects we will not trade (which prospects are mostly redundant as the organization has 10+ longterm SP candidates all controlled for years). Like seriously WTF is this thought process beyond "we are cheap to a fault and literally don't care."

You’re generously assuming Loria wouldn’t have traded half the farm away for washed up players at the deadline in the previous few years to even be in the situation this past offseason. 
BUT if you’re going with the “Loria reappears as owner this offseason with the team/farm as-is” idea, then yes, I agree, he’d have forked out a small sum of money in the first couple years on a few big backloaded deals.   But who knows, maybe those moves this time would’ve lead to success/contending/increased ticket sales to the point where we’d be keeping everyone even on the backloaded deals….

[hovertical]

26 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

You’re generously assuming Loria wouldn’t have traded half the farm away for washed up players at the deadline in the previous few years to even be in the situation this past offseason. 

BUT if you’re going with the “Loria reappears as owner this offseason with the team/farm as-is” idea, then yes, I agree, he’d have forked out a small sum of money in the first couple years on a few big backloaded deals.   But who knows, maybe those moves this time would’ve lead to success/contending/increased ticket sales to the point where we’d be keeping everyone even on the backloaded deals….

I pretty much said just that above that prompted the response you quoted.  If he inherited this roster the biggest threat would be what batshit crazy talent dump he'd order to get some deadline piece - although sometimes the cost justifies the price IF the piece is right see: Urbina, Ugueth. With some of the lesser than expected deals big names have been getting I think this roster would be VERY interesting indeed had Loria been in charge again.  Figures.

I'm also proud that i didn't fall for this dog and pony show masquerading as "much needed rebuild" they pulled when they bought the team though. I've been around long enough and seen enough shenanigans to know a cheap group when I see one.  I understood getting some of the money off the books but moving Yelich was the big red flashing light for me. Until my dying days I will despise Derek Jeter for wrecking any chance baseball has in S. Florida (until whenever Sherman finally sells too).

[MarlinsLou]

22 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I'm also proud that i didn't fall for this dog and pony show masquerading as "much needed rebuild" they pulled when they bought the team though. I've been around long enough and seen enough shenanigans to know a cheap group when I see one.  I understood getting some of the money off the books but moving Yelich was the big red flashing light for me. Until my dying days I will despise Derek Jeter for wrecking any chance baseball has in S. Florida (until whenever Sherman finally sells too).

Frankly, the Yelich trade is the only objectively batshit crazy bad deal they did - and that was before what Brinson/Harrison/Diaz turned into. The only second batshit crazy thing I think they've done is *not* getting one more bat (CF) this offseason when they are so close. Everything else has been good (Ozuna, dumping Stanton money, Nick Anderson and Jesus Sanchez)/neutral(Jazz, Floro)/defensible even if not ideal(Realmuto, Luzardo)/so irrelevant it doesn't matter. It's too soon on Garcia/Soler to note.

Despite the 1 run losses this year, the team is in really good shape if they get these last 1-3 pieces. We are frustrated as we want this "NOW" but in the grand scheme of things, they can do it the next 10 months and it achieves the same longterm result. We can fault them for failing now, but they have every resource available to them via money and prospects to fix this quickly whether the next month or two or March. We'll see. Wrecking any chance of baseball is just a bit much.

[rmc523]

6 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Frankly, the Yelich trade is the only objectively batshit crazy bad deal they did - and that was before what Brinson/Harrison/Diaz turned into. The only second batshit crazy thing I think they've done is *not* getting one more bat (CF) this offseason when they are so close. Everything else has been good (Ozuna, dumping Stanton money, Nick Anderson and Jesus Sanchez)/neutral(Jazz, Floro)/defensible even if not ideal(Realmuto, Luzardo)/so irrelevant it doesn't matter. It's too soon on Garcia/Soler to note.

Despite the 1 run losses this year, the team is in really good shape if they get these last 1-3 pieces. We are frustrated as we want this "NOW" but in the grand scheme of things, they can do it the next 10 months and it achieves the same longterm result. We can fault them for failing now, but they have every resource available to them via money and prospects to fix this quickly whether the next month or two or March. We'll see. Wrecking any chance of baseball is just a bit much.

You’re still very bullish on the timeline.   I’d counter with waiting longer and longer digs us further into a hole.