Shaq-Man Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Posted on Thu, Apr. 28, 2005 COURTS Denny's customers sue, claiming discrimination Seven South Florida men are suing for $28 million, claiming discrimination by Denny's because of their Middle Eastern heritage. BY LUISA YANEZ [email protected] Seven men of Middle Eastern descent who say they were kicked out of a South Florida Denny's and compared to terrorist Osama bin Laden have filed a discrimination lawsuit against the diner seeking $28 million in damages. ''This was a terrible act against Arab Americans,'' said Alan C. Kauffman, one of the attorneys for the group, which includes a doctor, a real estate agent, insurance broker and a restaurant owner. The seven men are of Egyptian, Lebanese, Syrian and Palestinian descent. They are U.S. citizens and live in Broward and Palm Beach counties. Their suit against the Denny's franchise at 401 SE First Ave., Florida City, has been filed in Miami-Dade County; no date for a jury trial has been set. The diner is run by Restaurant Collection, Inc. of Miami-Dade. Filing suit are: Mohammad Natour, of Plantation; Ehab Mohammed, of Boca Raton; Ehab Albaradi, of Hallandale; Nabil Arafat, of Pompano Beach; Usama El-A-Baidy, of Hallandale; Esam Hessein, of Hollywood and Usama Mohamed, of Dania. Each man seeks $4 million in damages. The alleged incident stems from the group's early morning visit Jan. 11, 2004. ''They were seated by the hostess, given menus, and their drink order was taken and served,'' Kauffman said. According to the 10-page complaint, the men waited more than an hour for their food. Frustrated, one of the men -- Ehab Albaradi -- approached shift manager Eduardo Ascano and inquired about the group's order. Ascano allegedly said: ''Bin Laden is the manager of the kitchen'' and ''Bin Laden is in charge,'' referring to the Arab terrorist Osama bin Laden. Albaradi and a second plaintiff, El-A-Baidy, decided to speak to Ascano again about their order. Angered, Ascano told the short order cooks in the kitchen to cancel the group's order, the suit claims. El-A-Baidy then asked Ascano why he had used the name bin Laden. ''We don't serve bin Ladens here! You guys, out!'' Ascano allegedly said. Also in the diner at that hour: a group of police officers from an unidentified agency. But when one of the plaintiffs requested a police report of the incident, a female officer refused and pulled out her handcuffs. She then ordered the men to ''Get out, get out!'' the men claim. The men paid for their drinks and left. Kauffman said he is trying to identify the officers. For now, the lawsuit names Restaurant Collection Inc. and Ascano. Ascano is no longer with the company, Kauffman said. Attempts to reach him were unsuccessful. In a statement, Restaurant Collection said that the 'allegations of discrimination were immediately and thoroughly investigated by an independent, outside agency that found no evidence whatsoever to support the guests' claims.'' In January, the Florida Commission on Human Relations said there was ''reasonable cause''' to believe the group had been discriminated against. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11507589.htm El-A-Baidy then asked Ascano if he had used the name "Bin Laden", and Ascano admitted that he had. When Plaintiff El-A-Baidy asked why Ascano had done so, Ascano angrily replied, "I say whatever the f*** I want to say!" Ascano went on to say, "We don't serve Bin Ladens here!" and then stated to all Plaintiffs: "You guys, out! You're not to come here anymore; you're not welcome here anymore!" As Ascano was shouting these statements at Plaintiffs in front of the entire restaurant, a uniformed female police officer, who was a patron of the restaurant with another uniformed police officer, sought to enforce the inflammatory, derogatory, racist, and discriminatory remarks made to Plaintiffs by RCI's employee and agent, Ascano, by also telling Plaintiffs, "Get out! Get out!" Plaintiff El-A-Baidy then asked the female officer to make out a police report for the incident involving Ascano. Instead of agreeing to do so, the female police officer continued to shout at Plaintiffs by ordering and saying to them, "Out, get out!" Plaintiff El-A-Baidy then asked the female police officer for her name. She refused, pulled out her handcuffs, and stated, "You'll have my name on your arrest report!" and, "Come on, anyone here want to get arrested?" it might have been half-way believable if they kept the police officer part out of it. being hated on by a racist denny's staff AND by a racist cop in one outing just sounds like over-embellished BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Marino Forever 13 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 People need to know when to keep their mouths shut. I can't beleive that the cops got involved and told the men that they had to leave or be arrested. In my legal opinion (for what it is worth) the lawyer for the 7 patrons will sue Denny's for Discrimination and file a complaint if not sue the local police department. $28 million sounds a little heavy, I doubt the Judge will yield to that. This is alomost under the same grounds as the other Denny's lawsuit a few decades ago where black patrons sued the Denny's Coporation for $46 million, for discrimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Mollusk Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 If the cop is a regular patron and a good friend of the Dennys people, it sounds exactly right. These guys will have plenty of witnessess to testify on their behalf if their claim is true. But Im sure those people will be characterized as unpatriotic. :confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradcore Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 They were wondering where their food was after only waiting an hour? C'mon. Everyone know it takes at least two hours to get your food at Denny's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fritz Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I remember Denny's got busted for racism about 10 years ago. They weren't serving black people and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 I remember Denny's got busted for racism about 10 years ago. They weren't serving black people and such. 757297[/snapback] yeah, that's the other reason why i think this is exaggerated BS. there isn't an easier target. i know if i wanted to sue a major national restaurant chain for racial discrimination, i'd hit up denny's without thinking twice. i wouldn't be surprised if the guy called them bin ladens (probably after being cussed out and called a s***), but the story as a whole doesn't even make logical sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhxPhin Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 yep this reeks of BS ... if it was as loud as they state, then finding a witness will not be that difficult also, with the educations these guys possess, it seems like they would be smart enough to get arrested so that way there would have to be some record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Mollusk Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 The reality is nobody knows what actually happend here so any claim that its BS or its true is absolute speculation with about as much foundation as your average Jose Canseco claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhxPhin Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 i'm not saying that it IS bs ... just that it sounds like it is very well could be true and a loud scene, in a restaurant, during breakfast hours should draw a witness or 2 will be interesting to see how this unfold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 well, we don't know denny's side of the story, but even looking only at the plaintiffs' alleged sequence of events, it's certifiably overly-exaggerated BS. link to the filing read it. it's preposterous...it doesn't even follow logical sense. nobody suddenly gets angry, cancels your order, and cusses you out for being a bin laden without any provocation. no cop witnesses this, all of a sudden gets angry, and threatens to arrest you with no provocation. yeah, it's BS. the guy clearly bitched out the manager for having to wait too long for his food, probably got violent and insulting, and probably got a bitching in return. "durr, but these guys got their food before my table of seven!!" who woulda thunk? earn your $28 million the way everyone else does, you low-life scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 yep this reeks of BS ... if it was as loud as they state, then finding a witness will not be that difficult also, with the educations these guys possess, it seems like they would be smart enough to get arrested so that way there would have to be some record 757304[/snapback] Bingo! If they went to the extent of wanting a police report, they obviously had the intention of law-suit in their minds, so one of them would have taken the arrest, gotten it all on paper, and then, on top of the discrimination, also had a wrongful arrest suit under their belt. It smells fishy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Mollusk Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Because if they didnt ask for a police report, Im sure everyone here would believe them right? Clearly their merely making the allegation is proof that its BS for some of you guys and proves they lack credibility. And this line of logic makes no sense. If they are lying about how it went down, then why would they demand a police report be made out that says no such conflict existed? And what they say in the brief is not different at all from whats in the newspaper allegations shaqman. And yeah, this stuff does happen. Conoco had to deal with one of its employees who did the same thing a while back. A hispanic father and daughter bought some gas and the women demanded to see ID when they tried to pay by credit card. Then she made a comment on how Mexicans always steal gas and then kicked the people out when they demanded to see her manager. Later on she admitted to her employer that she did do that. That kind of fact pattern doesnt carry a presumption of BS the way you make it out to be shaqman. How does it not follow logic sense? I see no leap in logic. My problem with what youre saying is that you have not one bit of proof from either side. Have you personally talked to the witnesses? Have you personally talked to the partys involved? Youre in med school right? So why would you jump to conclusions without any investigation? You know better than that. And dude, youre relying on gomarlins for the 28 million figure. They are suing for a lot less than that as said in the brief. I dont know what your problem with these people are but Im baffled that youre convinced they are lying scum because of a Miami Herald article and a view that such events cannot happen in real life-virtually impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 And dude, youre relying on gomarlins for the 28 million figure. 757332[/snapback] I'll admit, I am a little surprised at how quick you are to defend the story, question the reasoning of those who suggest it doesn't follow logical sense, and implore others to learn all the facts when it appears that you yourself didn't even bother to glance at bolded text, let alone read the article: Denny's customers sue, claiming discrimination Seven South Florida men are suing for $28 million, claiming discrimination by Denny's because of their Middle Eastern heritage. BY LUISA YANEZ Seven men of Middle Eastern descent who say they were kicked out of a South Florida Denny's and compared to terrorist Osama bin Laden have filed a discrimination lawsuit against the diner seeking $28 million in damages. Filing suit are: Mohammad Natour, of Plantation; Ehab Mohammed, of Boca Raton; Ehab Albaradi, of Hallandale; Nabil Arafat, of Pompano Beach; Usama El-A-Baidy, of Hallandale; Esam Hessein, of Hollywood and Usama Mohamed, of Dania. Each man seeks $4 million in damages. It's believable that seven Arab men could walk into a restaurant and get discriminated against. It's believable that they could get called "Bin Ladens" at some point by the manager. Like I said, it was actually half-way believable up to that point. But then claiming to have been verbally abused by the "angry" shift manager (who apparently was incensed because he was asked a simple question) and kicked out for being "Bin Ladens"--all in front of police officers, as stated in their own filing--AND then having a crooked cop who witnessed and "sought to enforce" the allegedly unprovoked "inflammatory, derogatory, racist, and discriminatory remarks" pull out handcuffs and threaten to arrest you--again, allegedly without any provocation .... no, all that doesn't quite wash with me. There's some serious bull ladled into that sequence of events. Much like Barry and his flaxseed oil, I don't have to wait for "proof" to come out before I can casually trash these guys on an internet message board for having a story that doesn't make sense. I also don't need any further investigation to suggest they're low-lifes for thinking they're entitled to millions out of the pockets of others simply for being inconvenienced at a restaurant. And yeah, this stuff does happen. Conoco had to deal with one of its employees who did the same thing a while back. A hispanic father and daughter bought some gas and the women demanded to see ID when they tried to pay by credit card. Then she made a comment on how Mexicans always steal gas and then kicked the people out when they demanded to see her manager. Later on she admitted to her employer that she did do that. That kind of fact pattern doesnt carry a presumption of BS the way you make it out to be shaqman. How does it not follow logic sense? 757332[/snapback] That sequence of events sounds plausible and believable. This one, on the other hand, sounds like bull to a number of us. Also, like I said, I can buy that they were called Bin Ladens at some point, but the story as a whole doesn't wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Oh, and what's also interesting is that I saw two of these clowns being interviewed on TV yesterday. They claimed they unfairly had to wait 20 minutes to get a table, and they waited for their food for one hour before their confrontation with el jefe. When the interviewer told them that the security tape showed that the restaurant was full (contrary to their alleged story) and that they were seated to the first available clean booth that could seat the seven of them, the guy's only response was (paraphrased): "Actually, there was probably one or two other tables open that also could have seated all of us the way we were sitting." That's nice, asswipe, but why do you allege in your filing: At the time Plaintiffs entered the retaurant, the restaurant was not busy and, in fact, had only a few customers in addition to Plaintiffs. ... Despite there being only a few customers in the restaurant, Plaintiffs had to wait an unusually long time before being served their beverage order. When asked, both men also admitted that they had both declared bankruptcy in 2002 or 2001 before the incident took place. When asked why they deserve the figure of $28 million, the other guy responds (paraphrased loosely): "durr...you'll have to ask my lawyer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Mollusk Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Every suit, whether legit or not, raises a large amount and then draws its way down. It makes no sense to judge the merit of a case by the remedies desired. It's believable that seven Arab men could walk into a restaurant and get discriminated against. It's believable that they could get called "Bin Ladens" at some point by the manager. Like I said, it was actually half-way believable up to that point. But then claiming to have been verbally abused by the "angry" shift manager (who apparently was incensed because he was asked a simple question) and kicked out for being "Bin Ladens"--all in front of police officers, as stated in their own filing--AND then having a crooked cop who witnessed and "sought to enforce" the allegedly unprovoked "inflammatory, derogatory, racist, and discriminatory remarks" pull out handcuffs and threaten to arrest you--again, allegedly without any provocation .... no, all that doesn't quite wash with me. WHAT?! How can you cease at that point in the line of events? If theyve already commited blatant discrimination, already noted the ethnicity of the person and changed their behavior accordingly, what is so surprising that when confronted, these same people would get defensive and angry? Are you kidding me? And all they said the cop did was demand they leave. They didnt say she was crooked. Maybe she handled the matter that wasnt to their benefit and it bothered them but they never accused her of being part of some antiArab conspiracy. There argument is that her lack of proper enforcment officially ratified the conduct. And before you go off citing the brief, you need to understand one thing about legal briefs. They arent written with pure objectivity in mind. They present facts in a storytelling mechanism that leans the reader to the writers side. You know how Dennys is going to write their brief? They are going to say stuff like "the cook calmly tried to calm the men who refused to temper their unprovoked rage." And how the heck is the Conoco story believable to you and not this one? They are parallel in every form! There's some serious bull ladled into that sequence of events. Much like Barry and his flaxseed oil, I don't have to wait for "proof" to come out before I can casually trash these guys on an internet message board for having a story that doesn't make sense. I also don't need any further investigation to suggest they're low-lifes for thinking they're entitled to millions out of the pockets of others simply for being inconvenienced at a restaurant. When you dismiss something as fanciful and wrong, you probably need to back up that conclusion dont you? Listen, if something like this happens to you or your family members, would you prefer the court of public opinion to make conclusions on witnessess and evidence or on whatever conjectures arise from the story itself? Im sorry, but thats the problem with this country today. And Im not trying to single you out, but these days everyone is an armchair pundits who know the objective truth of the world from the local news and scant information. The reason I got so defensive is that the court of public opinion pisses me off to no end. Nor am I sitting there and saying that this actually happend. Please dont make the the harbinger of the claim that this is another example of evil antiArab discrimination and Dennys must be crushed. Id rather let the evidence hash itself out first. The videotape was a great piece of evidence. It undermines their veracity. Thats the kind of stuff lawyers and judges base their conclusions off of. But the court of opinion says nay to that. Before I say they are right or wrong, Im gonna wait until the witnesses say what they saw. Yeah, maybe it sounds less plausile to you, but its definitley not implausible. Dude, I think you made your mind up on this before thinking through all the facts. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that they are asking for that much money and not whether it actually happend. If you think there are frivilous lawsuits in this country, then fine..argue that out. But the two things are wholly separable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 And how the heck is the Conoco story believable to you and not this one? They are parallel in every form! The cop. If the lady in the Conoco case said two cops witnessed the the employee hurling racist insults at her and decided to threaten to handcuff her, then yes, I'd find it hard to believe. Like I've noted N times now, this story is perfectly believable up until the cop part. There it starts sounding like BS. If you find the cop part believable, then good for you, but I'd disagree. When you dismiss something as fanciful and wrong, you probably need to back up that conclusion dont you? Listen, if something like this happens to you or your family members, would you prefer the court of public opinion to make conclusions on witnessess and evidence or on whatever conjectures arise from the story itself? If I read a story and it sounds like BS, there's nothing unusual or wrong with noting that I think it sounds like BS. Heh, at least I bothered to read through the entire article before going off on my armchair punditry. Dude, I think you made your mind up on this before thinking through all the facts. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that they are asking for that much money and not whether it actually happend. If you think there are frivilous lawsuits in this country, then fine..argue that out. But the two things are wholly separable. 758744[/snapback] You're partially correct and partially wrong. This was my honest-to-god thinking when reading the article: "Hey, it certainly looks like these Arab guys got discriminated against, and that sucks. But they're douchebags for thinking they can make millions for it." I made up my mind from the outset that they were douchebags, but I believed their story (as I would with any story that sounds so plausible). Moments later, when I get to the cop part: "okay, now this sounds like BS. they're clearly ladling some bull into their story, which at first I originally believed. Now not only are they douchebags, but they have serious credibility issues." Do you follow? My initial reaction (with this story and any story where a person sues for millions for some minor inconvenience) was to believe they were douchebags, but I also thought they had a believable case. I don't assume a guy is making things up when he files a frivolous lawsuit like this one, but in this case, I changed my mind and came to that conclusion after reading a story that didn't sound plausible to me (as I noted in the very first post), and evidently others on this board didn't find the story credible, either. I still think these guys were called Bin Ladens at some point, but I really can't swallow the story as a whole. Make sense? Honest to god--in my mind, the story went from credible to outrageous in a couple lines. Now compare this thinking to that of a guy who, without even reading all the bolded text in the article, assumes the arguments for why the story sounds fishy are faulty. No offense, but you're not exactly one to give the lecture here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Mollusk Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I read the whole thing including the bolded text. Just because a narrative of the incedent comes off as questionable to you, doesnt mean its questionable as a whole. I also read the unbolded parts that suggested there was some basis for the thing cutting either way: In a statement, Restaurant Collection said that the 'allegations of discrimination were immediately and thoroughly investigated by an independent, outside agency that found no evidence whatsoever to support the guests' claims.'' In January, the Florida Commission on Human Relations said there was ''reasonable cause''' to believe the group had been discriminated against. These guys are going to have to bring witnessess, and not just their friends, if they are going to win a penny. The cop and the other guy would have to lie under oath if we are to believe these guys and the jury can judge how credible they are. Like I said, the videotape already undermines their claim because theyve already given past inconsistent statments. That makes them look bad. So based on that evidence, Ill say they are lying or not. But not by how their narrative is given through the media or through their own brief. If I was in that situation, I would want the benefit of the doubt that my evidence, not the way my story sounds when read on paper, is vital. Im sure you would too. Thats all Im saying. The fact is dude, if we judged veracity by how well a story is told and how believable it sounds, then a good con man could do us all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 The fact is dude, if we judged veracity by how well a story is told and how believable it sounds, then a good con man could do us all in. 758899[/snapback] Yes. Only a fool would conclude a story is the truth purely because it sounds believable. On the other hand, if a story doesn't even sound believable.... But you're right that none of us can definitively say whether or not these fellows were discriminated against. I can agree with you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadLicker Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Probably caught in a shift change period. Things get lost during shift changes. If I was hungry and things weren't proceeding at a pace I was happy with, I'd just go somewhere else. Never presume conspiracy when ordinary incompetence is a more plausible explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Is that $28 million American Dollars or riyals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Marino Forever 13 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Is that $28 million American Dollars or riyals? 759903[/snapback] This happened here. It is American dollars ($). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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