NOMARLINSSTADIUM

Well it looks like the time has finally come to bid a farewell to the Florida Marlins.. As was discussed a number of months ago, there are quite a number of reasons that this was coming (as everyone should have seen) but the real backbreaker were the storms in the last number of years.. That itself has taken any money that would have possibly gone to a project like that.. But aside from that, the fact remains that South Florida is NOT a baseball area.. Just think of it.. Two world series wins and they are third from the bottom in attendance.. Of course, people watch it on TV, but noone goes to the games.. Its the fans that never stepped up here.. I had suggested a surcharge on tickets as well as merchandise (take a look at my earlier post) and almost all of the replies were talking about how it would be too expensive for the fans and thats what we pay taxes for.. Noone really has brought up that the Florida Marlins is a "FOR PROFIT CORPORATION" and is in the business like any to make a profit.. Also, another point that has somehow got ignored is that for a number of months in the year, the Marlins are the ONLY pro sports team that is in town and even with that, people will not go.. I think that in itself says a lot.. Well now its over.. You have to face the fact that they WILL BE GONE.. It will actually be a little refreshing not to have to worry about our tax money being wasted on another "Miami Arena" But looking in retrospect (and I will cut and paste the surcharge idea below) if you my plan would have been enacted and the extra charges that I had suggested you KNEW would have kept your team here, would you have considered paying the extra surcharge on merchandise and tickets worth it?? There is an easy and fair way that the marlins could have secured the financial means to erect this staduim a long time ago which I would refer to the 7-10 plan.. So far since 2001, there have been 5,797,603 people attend home Marlins games.. Discounting 10% for comp tickets and adding a flat $7.00 "Stadium Surcharge" to the ticket price comes to $36.5 Million.. Couple that with a 10% upcharge on Florida Marlins licenced merchandise (at the wholesale level to keep the paperwork as small as possible) and that would probably almost double the $36.5 Million.. At that rate, the rasing of funds would not be an issue, and construction would have probably already been underway for you..

I would be upset of any of my sports teams left as well, but it would not affect my pride in my community, city or state.. Were you not proud of your area before the Marlins came to town?? Panthers?? Heat?? Ive got friends in Toronto and though they lost their team, they are still proud of their city.. Personally, If any sports team were to leave, it would not affect my pride in my community, city or state.. I would be extremely mad if the Dolphins or Marlins left South Florida. 799211[/snapback]

I do agree with the county squandering money 100%!!! Voting machines, PAC, Airport, etc.. You know all too well.. And the county is all for this project.. That in itself should be a frightening idea to you!! (by the way, MLB refuses to guarantee any cost overruns.. I wonder why!!) Remember, though that the Marlins are in a stadium now and any jobs in the area of a new stadium are balanced out by jobs lost in the area that its in now (which is not much).. If the Marlins would have provided a positive business impact, there would be more business in that area already.. They have been playing for more than 10 years remember and any good businessman would have placed business there if there was a profit to be made.. To the new guy: EAT s*** The county squanders money in so many ways, the airport project, the Performing Arts Center, subsidizing the MTV awards, Latin Grammys, etc while a baseball stadium would provide more visability than all of those combined. A new stadium would provide a boom for the city it is in, bringing new investment for shops, parking, restaurants, etc and all the jobs that come along with it. Its time taxpayers get their money's worth on something and thats having baseball in Miami. 799203[/snapback]

Good Afternoon: I live in the North Miami / Aventura area.. Well within the draw area of this team which I consider to be Dade/Broward County.. I was actually waiting for someone to talk about the ticket price.. Though you feel that it is a counterproductive area, remember that it is you the fan / ticket purchaser who determines if the price of the tickets are worth it or not.. If at that price, the actual fan base decides that it is not worth it and does not want to "step up to the plate", then the organization has choices to move to another facility (The Homestead Sports Complex lays vacant!!) relocate, or shut down operations.. It should not, however, be the responsibility of the citizens of each and every county in Florida to bear the costs and give the breaks to one local business to which a majority of the people in that area have proven is not relavant.. Sir, first off, I'd like to ask where you live (citywise). Be specific if you live inside of Miami Dade, say Coral Gables, Kendall, etc. Second, your $7 dollar ticket surcharge is a novel idea - however it's a counterproductive one. I myself own season tickets because I can get them at $6 a game.....I pay for my seats myself, and at $13 a game I would be going to significantly fewer games. 799095[/snapback]

For my entire life, I have had pride in my community, city, and state and have had so long before the Marlins, Heat, or Panthers arrived.. The only reason that I dont say Dolphins is because I was too young then!! Personally, If any sports team were to leave, it would not affect my pride in my community, city or state.. I am a sports fan, but feel that any sports team should be treated like the for profit business it actually is.. Many people totally discount that most of these players make more than 99% of the population here, but yet we are being asked to foot the bill.. As for advertising, Advertising will go on and clients come and go.. Also, I am sure that no television stations would see any impact because if them leaving since airtime is always a valuable commodity.. Personally I doubt that it would be much of a loss with the exception of the few that have a full time position with the organization.. You are indeed correct in your numbers that where the marlins would pull in $4-5 million a year for state taxes they would recieve back up to 2 million and that it would be a credit, but I ask you what else could the state do with the money and put it to good use?? I would suggest that after the past year that we have had, why not instead extend the tax credit to make things like hurricane shutters and hurricane damage protection items tax exempt.. This would benefit more people, maybe save a left or two, and make more sense.. If they leave, then they do.. If they stay, good for them and their fans.. But their are other ways that I have shown to get the funds to build a stadium which would cost the state absolutely nothing and not result in forcing people to sell their homes via Imminent Domain.. I know over disney very well with a few relatives working for them. But, I wasnt talking of their moving here as much as their current breaks they recieve. There is other areas you are not putting into the debate benefits that dont come from straight business for the company. Pride for the community, sense of selfworth and other areas like this. You are forgetting the employment for taxes generated by advertising on the stadium, radio and Tv medias. The Taxes taken in within players down here living. The jobs many of them are small in pay scale and often part time, agreed completely. Yet, with the possibility of the marlins leaving that would be no tax break at all. The deal that within the state legislature wasnt giving away money to finance the stadium. It was a deal in place for a tax credit return. Where the marlins would pull in 4-5 million a year for state taxes they would recieve back up to 2 million. If they pulled in more then the 4 million required (half the money on the dollar) then they wouldnt get any more back from it. This was not the government giving out money it was merely a credit. If the marlins leave, what taxes do they get at all? They would lose all 4,5,6 million plus the advertising, jobs revenue. Everything would be lost. I concur if it was a hand out of money but a tax return is given to all individuals for overages of sums given each apiral. This is no different except for a company that provides an entertainment for the community. 798833[/snapback]

Sir, Im not here to insult people and shout out names.. My only goal is to show that there are other ways to obtain money from within the fan base than to subject unknowing people who are not a part of the marlins nor their fanbase to an extra of those dreaded three letter words.. TAX!! I also did not even consider in my original posting the revenue from naming rights which could be sold which could add another $30 Million to the revenue.. Take a careful look at my original posting and consider the possibilities lost.. Somebody needs to ban this moron. 798831[/snapback]

Im sure that a lot of people were soured by the marlins because of the "firesale".. However looking at the second World Series victory, the attendance record ony improved from 28th in the league to 26th in the league (without any firesale).. This also being the state with the 4th largest population at 15,982,378.. The numbers that I have only cover the 2001 year to the present..? Feel free to check them out at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...01&seasonType=2 you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002? 798764[/snapback] 798782[/snapback] He's not questioning your stats. He's making the point that people gave up on the team after the firesale. If there hadn't been a firesale the team would have had greater attendance. 798785[/snapback]

I can show you some key differences yes.. When a company like IBM relocates to the state, it creates not only jobs so giving them a tax break to relocate here would be a good decision.. We all know that FPL is their own game and Im sure that the State of Florida would do whatever to assure that the electrical infrastructure is proper.. When Walt Disney World was originally being created, did you know that Disney did not want for anyone to know that they were coming so they originally bought land under "dummy corporations" to keep it a secret so we know that there were no tax breaks at that time.. Im sure that they do get some now.. How much Im sure that noone really knows, but Im sure that the Florida tourism base would not be what it is if not for the Walt Disney World originally opening in Orlando.. Now for the Marlins Stadium issue.. Aside from some temporary construction jobs, the Jobs created would be neglagible at best.. It would basically be the same number of people at a different location.. Look what happened when clients left the Miami Arena.. Concession stands, security, media support and whatever else still work, just at a different location.. Most of those people also are part time employees who are offered no benefits so their loyalty to their employed are not going to be the best.. The net gain would be absolutely nothing.. Just remember that businesses like the Florida Marlins are in business to make a profit so there is a reason that most for profit teams do not build stadiums on their own.. IBM recieved large tax breaks for coming to Boca Raton in the early 80s. Prat and Wittney get huge state tax breaks for being within this state. FPL gets huge tax breaks within this state for managing the power services. There is huge tax breaks for Waste Management company. Disney recieves monsterous tax breaks within florida, cruise lines gets large tax breaks within the state. Please tell me how a tax break for the Marlins for a stadium is different? 798803[/snapback]

Well we will see.. Only time will tell.. 10 years from now more baseball players will be on that list. (Arod, Palmeiro, Cabrera and maybe some of the guys on the DRays) 798801[/snapback]

You can come up with one as Im sure that many people in the forum can.. However, as a whole people replied like this.. Greatest athlete who ever lived in or played for a team in your state Dan Marino 33% Emmitt Smith 8% Steve Spurrier 5% Bob Griese 5% Not one baseball player.. In this state, for the most part, if you do not specifically baseball, people do not think about it when thinking sports.. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!!? Greatest Athletes Steve Carlton, Miami Second-winningest lefty (329); second-most career strikeouts (4,136); four Cy Young Awards 798783[/snapback]

Of Course, as citizens, people have the right to ask the state for whatever they like.. The state has rejected this plan several times and will continue to do so as they know that there is absolutely no positive effect taxwise or tourismwise for building a new stadium.. If they are going to give tax rebates back, then there is no positive effect taxwise, and I personally do not know of anyone that has come from out of state on a vacation to specifically go to a Florida Marlins game.. As a citizen of this state I have the right to ask the State of Florida to help pay for whatever I want. The State helps pay for many things that I don't consider important so why can't I expect them to help pay for what I consider is important to me. In my opinion, the hicks in the other parts of Florida don't want to help out with any of South Florida needs or desires for many reasons. Some of which are not very pretty. 798780[/snapback]

The numbers that I have only cover the 2001 year to the present.. Feel free to check them out at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...01&seasonType=2 you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002? 798764[/snapback]

Actually I am correct.. Sports Illustrated last year during its 50th anniversary did a state by state review and survey and when people were asked what their favorite professional team was, the Marlins did not even make the list!! (The New York Yankees did make the list with 9%).. You can confirm this at: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/...states/florida/ Please remember that only if people were SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT BASEBALL were the Marlins even mentioned, but when people were asked about sports teams as a whole, the Marlins did not even place in the survey..

Good Afternoon Gooch.. Actually I never did address that did I?? Personally for me it does not matter one way or another if a new stadium is built.. Like any other "For Profit Corporation" if they have the needs as well as the capital, they should be in a facility that suits them well.. They should, however, act like any other corporation and pay for it themselves.. Its just business, thats all!!

Ive seen quite a few posts here about people looking for tax money for erecting a new stadium for the marlins and I cant see how people can expect complete strangers to start "footing the bill" for a minority of people in this state.. First of all, though some people would disagree, baseball really does not have a following here despite the Marlins winning two championships.. Sports Illustrated last year during its 50th anniversary did a state by state review and survey and when people were asked what their favorite professional team was, the Marlins did not even make the list!! (The New York Yankees did make the list with 9%).. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!! Aside from this, people really do not attend games here and the attendance proves that as well.. Just look at the numbers from the 2003 season when the Marlins won the world series.. The attendance averaged 16,290 which is third from the BOTTOM!! 1,303,215 people went to games that year and the average was somewhere in the area of 2.3 million people.. ONE MILLION LESS PEOPLE!! Again.. People just do not go to games here.. Its a fact!! There is an easy and fair way that the marlins could have secured the financial means to erect this staduim a long time ago which I would refer to the 7-10 plan.. So far since 2001, there have been 5,797,603 people attend home Marlins games.. Discounting 10% for comp tickets and adding a flat $7.00 "Stadium Surcharge" to the ticket price comes to $36.5 Million.. Couple that with a 10% upcharge on Florida Marlins licenced merchandise (at the wholesale level to keep the paperwork as small as possible) and that would probably almost double the $36.5 Million.. At that rate, the rasing of funds would not be an issue, and construction would have probably already been underway for you.. The collection of money this way would be by far the most appropriate way of raising the funds because you are obtaining the money from the people that support the Marlins and do not affect the people that do not.. Now there are people that Im sure will this that these charges would be outragious and to those people I ask this.. If you are the person who wants them here so badly, why are you asking someone else to pay??