June 7, 200521 yr Ive seen quite a few posts here about people looking for tax money for erecting a new stadium for the marlins and I cant see how people can expect complete strangers to start "footing the bill" for a minority of people in this state.. First of all, though some people would disagree, baseball really does not have a following here despite the Marlins winning two championships.. Sports Illustrated last year during its 50th anniversary did a state by state review and survey and when people were asked what their favorite professional team was, the Marlins did not even make the list!! (The New York Yankees did make the list with 9%).. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!! Aside from this, people really do not attend games here and the attendance proves that as well.. Just look at the numbers from the 2003 season when the Marlins won the world series.. The attendance averaged 16,290 which is third from the BOTTOM!! 1,303,215 people went to games that year and the average was somewhere in the area of 2.3 million people.. ONE MILLION LESS PEOPLE!! Again.. People just do not go to games here.. Its a fact!! There is an easy and fair way that the marlins could have secured the financial means to erect this staduim a long time ago which I would refer to the 7-10 plan.. So far since 2001, there have been 5,797,603 people attend home Marlins games.. Discounting 10% for comp tickets and adding a flat $7.00 "Stadium Surcharge" to the ticket price comes to $36.5 Million.. Couple that with a 10% upcharge on Florida Marlins licenced merchandise (at the wholesale level to keep the paperwork as small as possible) and that would probably almost double the $36.5 Million.. At that rate, the rasing of funds would not be an issue, and construction would have probably already been underway for you.. The collection of money this way would be by far the most appropriate way of raising the funds because you are obtaining the money from the people that support the Marlins and do not affect the people that do not.. Now there are people that Im sure will this that these charges would be outragious and to those people I ask this.. If you are the person who wants them here so badly, why are you asking someone else to pay??
June 7, 200521 yr Author Good Afternoon Gooch.. Actually I never did address that did I?? Personally for me it does not matter one way or another if a new stadium is built.. Like any other "For Profit Corporation" if they have the needs as well as the capital, they should be in a facility that suits them well.. They should, however, act like any other corporation and pay for it themselves.. Its just business, thats all!!
June 7, 200521 yr you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002?
June 7, 200521 yr Why not call the major office and voice your concern? Since state money is dead. And you won't get much support on this forum. Or is your intention to troll and get a heated argument?
June 7, 200521 yr btw, there are a billion posts here on opinions on if the money should be public, etc. The search function is handy some times, you know
June 7, 200521 yr Ive seen quite a few posts here about people looking for tax money for erecting a new stadium for the marlins and I cant see how people can expect complete strangers to start "footing the bill" for a minority of people in this state.. First of all, though some people would disagree, baseball really does not have a following here despite the Marlins winning two championships.. Sports Illustrated last year during its 50th anniversary did a state by state review and survey and when people were asked what their favorite professional team was, the Marlins did not even make the list!! (The New York Yankees did make the list with 9%).. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!! Aside from this, people really do not attend games here and the attendance proves that as well.. Just look at the numbers from the 2003 season when the Marlins won the world series.. The attendance averaged 16,290 which is third from the BOTTOM!! 1,303,215 people went to games that year and the average was somewhere in the area of 2.3 million people.. ONE MILLION LESS PEOPLE!! Again.. People just do not go to games here.. Its a fact!! There is an easy and fair way that the marlins could have secured the financial means to erect this staduim a long time ago which I would refer to the 7-10 plan.. So far since 2001, there have been 5,797,603 people attend home Marlins games.. Discounting 10% for comp tickets and adding a flat $7.00 "Stadium Surcharge" to the ticket price comes to $36.5 Million.. Couple that with a 10% upcharge on Florida Marlins licenced merchandise (at the wholesale level to keep the paperwork as small as possible) and that would probably almost double the $36.5 Million.. At that rate, the rasing of funds would not be an issue, and construction would have probably already been underway for you.. The collection of money this way would be by far the most appropriate way of raising the funds because you are obtaining the money from the people that support the Marlins and do not affect the people that do not.. Now there are people that Im sure will this that these charges would be outragious and to those people I ask this.. If you are the person who wants them here so badly, why are you asking someone else to pay?? 798751[/snapback] Sorry you are wrong the Marlins got 22% in the favorite baseball team category and the Yankees got a little less than half that of that number.
June 7, 200521 yr Author Actually I am correct.. Sports Illustrated last year during its 50th anniversary did a state by state review and survey and when people were asked what their favorite professional team was, the Marlins did not even make the list!! (The New York Yankees did make the list with 9%).. You can confirm this at: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/...states/florida/ Please remember that only if people were SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT BASEBALL were the Marlins even mentioned, but when people were asked about sports teams as a whole, the Marlins did not even place in the survey..
June 7, 200521 yr As a citizen of this state I have the right to ask the State of Florida to help pay for whatever I want. The State helps pay for many things that I don't consider important so why can't I expect them to help pay for what I consider is important to me. In my opinion, the hicks in the other parts of Florida don't want to help out with any of South Florida needs or desires for many reasons. Some of which are not very pretty.
June 7, 200521 yr Author The numbers that I have only cover the 2001 year to the present.. Feel free to check them out at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...01&seasonType=2 you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002? 798764[/snapback]
June 7, 200521 yr Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!! Greatest Athletes Steve Carlton, Miami Second-winningest lefty (329); second-most career strikeouts (4,136); four Cy Young Awards
June 7, 200521 yr The numbers that I have only cover the 2001 year to the present.. Feel free to check them out at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...01&seasonType=2 you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002? 798764[/snapback] 798782[/snapback] He's not questioning your stats. He's making the point that people gave up on the team after the firesale. If there hadn't been a firesale the team would have had greater attendance.
June 7, 200521 yr Author Of Course, as citizens, people have the right to ask the state for whatever they like.. The state has rejected this plan several times and will continue to do so as they know that there is absolutely no positive effect taxwise or tourismwise for building a new stadium.. If they are going to give tax rebates back, then there is no positive effect taxwise, and I personally do not know of anyone that has come from out of state on a vacation to specifically go to a Florida Marlins game.. As a citizen of this state I have the right to ask the State of Florida to help pay for whatever I want. The State helps pay for many things that I don't consider important so why can't I expect them to help pay for what I consider is important to me. In my opinion, the hicks in the other parts of Florida don't want to help out with any of South Florida needs or desires for many reasons. Some of which are not very pretty. 798780[/snapback]
June 7, 200521 yr Author You can come up with one as Im sure that many people in the forum can.. However, as a whole people replied like this.. Greatest athlete who ever lived in or played for a team in your state Dan Marino 33% Emmitt Smith 8% Steve Spurrier 5% Bob Griese 5% Not one baseball player.. In this state, for the most part, if you do not specifically baseball, people do not think about it when thinking sports.. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!!? Greatest Athletes Steve Carlton, Miami Second-winningest lefty (329); second-most career strikeouts (4,136); four Cy Young Awards 798783[/snapback]
June 7, 200521 yr You can come up with one as Im sure that many people in the forum can.. However, as a whole people replied like this.. Greatest athlete who ever lived in or played for a team in your state Dan Marino 33% Emmitt Smith 8% Steve Spurrier 5% Bob Griese 5% Not one baseball player.. In this state, for the most part, if you do not specifically baseball, people do not think about it when thinking sports.. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!!? Greatest Athletes Steve Carlton, Miami Second-winningest lefty (329); second-most career strikeouts (4,136); four Cy Young Awards 798783[/snapback] 798795[/snapback] 10 years from now more baseball players will be on that list. (Arod, Palmeiro, Cabrera and maybe some of the guys on the DRays)
June 7, 200521 yr IBM recieved large tax breaks for coming to Boca Raton in the early 80s. Prat and Wittney get huge state tax breaks for being within this state. FPL gets huge tax breaks within this state for managing the power services. There is huge tax breaks for Waste Management company. Disney recieves monsterous tax breaks within florida, cruise lines gets large tax breaks within the state. Please tell me how a tax break for the Marlins for a stadium is different?
June 7, 200521 yr Author Well we will see.. Only time will tell.. You can come up with one as Im sure that many people in the forum can..? However, as a whole people replied like this.. Greatest athlete who ever lived in or played for a team in your state Dan Marino 33% Emmitt Smith 8% Steve Spurrier 5% Bob Griese 5% Not one baseball player..? In this state, for the most part, if you do not specifically baseball, people do not think about it when thinking sports.. Also, when people were asked who the greatest athlete was who ever lived in or played for a team in your state, no baseball players were even mentioned!!? 10 years from now more baseball players will be on that list. (Arod, Palmeiro, Cabrera and maybe some of the guys on the DRays) 798801[/snapback]
June 7, 200521 yr Author I can show you some key differences yes.. When a company like IBM relocates to the state, it creates not only jobs so giving them a tax break to relocate here would be a good decision.. We all know that FPL is their own game and Im sure that the State of Florida would do whatever to assure that the electrical infrastructure is proper.. When Walt Disney World was originally being created, did you know that Disney did not want for anyone to know that they were coming so they originally bought land under "dummy corporations" to keep it a secret so we know that there were no tax breaks at that time.. Im sure that they do get some now.. How much Im sure that noone really knows, but Im sure that the Florida tourism base would not be what it is if not for the Walt Disney World originally opening in Orlando.. Now for the Marlins Stadium issue.. Aside from some temporary construction jobs, the Jobs created would be neglagible at best.. It would basically be the same number of people at a different location.. Look what happened when clients left the Miami Arena.. Concession stands, security, media support and whatever else still work, just at a different location.. Most of those people also are part time employees who are offered no benefits so their loyalty to their employed are not going to be the best.. The net gain would be absolutely nothing.. Just remember that businesses like the Florida Marlins are in business to make a profit so there is a reason that most for profit teams do not build stadiums on their own.. IBM recieved large tax breaks for coming to Boca Raton in the early 80s. Prat and Wittney get huge state tax breaks for being within this state. FPL gets huge tax breaks within this state for managing the power services. There is huge tax breaks for Waste Management company. Disney recieves monsterous tax breaks within florida, cruise lines gets large tax breaks within the state. Please tell me how a tax break for the Marlins for a stadium is different? 798803[/snapback]
June 7, 200521 yr Author Im sure that a lot of people were soured by the marlins because of the "firesale".. However looking at the second World Series victory, the attendance record ony improved from 28th in the league to 26th in the league (without any firesale).. This also being the state with the 4th largest population at 15,982,378.. The numbers that I have only cover the 2001 year to the present..? Feel free to check them out at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...01&seasonType=2 you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002? 798764[/snapback] 798782[/snapback] He's not questioning your stats. He's making the point that people gave up on the team after the firesale. If there hadn't been a firesale the team would have had greater attendance. 798785[/snapback]
June 7, 200521 yr Steve Carlton, Miami Second-winningest lefty (329); second-most career strikeouts (4,136); four Cy Young Awards. Wade Boggs, Tampa Batted .300 in 15 of 18 major league seasons; retired in 1999 with 3,010 hits. Tim Raines, Sanford Seven-time All-Star has 2,561 hits and is fifth alltime in steals with 807. Andre Dawson, Maimi Major league Rookie of the Year in 1977, MVP in '87 and eight-time All-Star; hit 438 homers. Dwight Gooden, Tampa Set rookie strikeout record as 19-year-old with Mets in 1984; won Cy Young in '85; pitched no-hitter for Yankees in '96. Alex Rodriguez, Miami Led Westminster Christian High to 1992 national high school baseball title; led AL in average, runs and doubles in first full season ('96); set AL mark for homers by shortstop (42) in '98. Jose Canseco, Miami With A's in 1988 became baseball's first 40-40 man and won MVP; 431 career homers. Rafael Palmeiro, Miami Underrated first baseman is among 1990s big league leaders in homers (328) and RBIs (1,068); has two Gold Gloves. Chipper Jones, Jacksonville State's high school player of the year in 1990; emerged as game's deadliest switch-hitter during '99 MVP year with Braves.
June 7, 200521 yr I know over disney very well with a few relatives working for them. But, I wasnt talking of their moving here as much as their current breaks they recieve. There is other areas you are not putting into the debate benefits that dont come from straight business for the company. Pride for the community, sense of selfworth and other areas like this. You are forgetting the employment for taxes generated by advertising on the stadium, radio and Tv medias. The Taxes taken in within players down here living. The jobs many of them are small in pay scale and often part time, agreed completely. Yet, with the possibility of the marlins leaving that would be no tax break at all. The deal that within the state legislature wasnt giving away money to finance the stadium. It was a deal in place for a tax credit return. Where the marlins would pull in 4-5 million a year for state taxes they would recieve back up to 2 million. If they pulled in more then the 4 million required (half the money on the dollar) then they wouldnt get any more back from it. This was not the government giving out money it was merely a credit. If the marlins leave, what taxes do they get at all? They would lose all 4,5,6 million plus the advertising, jobs revenue. Everything would be lost. I concur if it was a hand out of money but a tax return is given to all individuals for overages of sums given each apiral. This is no different except for a company that provides an entertainment for the community.
June 7, 200521 yr Im sure that a lot of people were soured by the marlins because of the "firesale".. However looking at the second World Series victory, the attendance record ony improved from 28th in the league to 26th in the league (without any firesale).. This also being the state with the 4th largest population at 15,982,378.. The numbers that I have only cover the 2001 year to the present..? Feel free to check them out at: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...01&seasonType=2 you seem to be pretty good with numbers can you tell me why there was such a drastic change in attendence from 1993-1997 compared to 1998-2002? 798764[/snapback] 798782[/snapback] He's not questioning your stats. He's making the point that people gave up on the team after the firesale. If there hadn't been a firesale the team would have had greater attendance. 798785[/snapback] 798829[/snapback] Attendance has gone up about 50% each of the last two years though.
June 7, 200521 yr Author Sir, Im not here to insult people and shout out names.. My only goal is to show that there are other ways to obtain money from within the fan base than to subject unknowing people who are not a part of the marlins nor their fanbase to an extra of those dreaded three letter words.. TAX!! I also did not even consider in my original posting the revenue from naming rights which could be sold which could add another $30 Million to the revenue.. Take a careful look at my original posting and consider the possibilities lost.. Somebody needs to ban this moron. 798831[/snapback]
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