FOXSPORTS:

 

"Florida's fire-sale follies

 

When the Marlins traded nine members of their 1997 world championship club over a span of eight months, they acquired building blocks for their future ? right-hander A.J. Burnett, first baseman Derrek Lee, center fielder Preston Wilson.

They also acquired 15 young pitchers who never made an impact in the majors, demonstrating that the odds rarely are good when obtaining pitching prospects.

 

The Marlins are using the same strategy in their latest fire sale, landing pitching in each trade. For right-hander Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell, they received right-handers Anibal Sanchez and Jesus Delgado from the Red Sox in addition to shortstop Hanley Ramirez. For first baseman Carlos Delgado, they received right-hander Yusmeiro Petit and first baseman Mike Jacobs from the Mets.

 

Sanchez and Petit eventually could join Dontrelle Willis and Jason Vargas to form a gifted young rotation, but the outcome of such trades often depends upon whether the pitchers A) stay healthy and B) adjust successfully to the majors.

 

Willis was the bounty when the Marlins sent pitchers Matt Clement and Antonio Alfonseca to the Cubs in a cost-cutting trade at the end of spring training in 2002. The Fish also hit it big when they acquired right-hander Brad Penny for reliever Matt Mantei in 1999.

 

Unfortunately for the Marlins, their own history points to the difficulty of building through fire sales.

 

Jackpots are the exception, not the rule.

 

-Ken Rosenthal"

ESPN has a similar article talking about how a proven guy is always better than an unproven guy with lots of talent

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...showtopic=53559

ESPN has a similar article talking about how a proven guy is always better than an unproven guy with lots of talent

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...showtopic=53559

 

 

Yeah, remember all the "stud" players we got from the 1998-99 fire sale? Let's review.

 

Livan traded to SF for Jason Grilli and Nate Bump

Renteria traded to STL for Pablo Ozuna (the key to the deal), Braden Looper, and Armando Almanza

Robb Nen traded to SF for Ps Mike Villano, Joe Fontenot and Mick Pageler (WHO COULD FORGET?)

Moises Alou traded to HOU for P Oscar Henriquez, P Manuel Barrios and P Mark Johnson

Jeff Conine traded to KC for Blaine Mull

 

I could go on.

 

The point is that we for every Leiter we flip for an A.J. and every Kevin Brown we flip for a Derrek Lee, we make two or three trades for highly touted prospects who never do anything.

The name Geoff Getz(sp?) rings a bell

Regardless of position, "can't miss" prospects often do.

 

I'm more upset that we're acquiring more young pitching when we already have that in droves in all levels of our system.

Regardless of position, "can't miss" prospects often do.

 

I'm more upset that we're acquiring more young pitching when we already have that in droves in all levels of our system.

 

I'm also not too happy about the "load up on pitching prospects" strategy that this FO subscribes too

The name Geoff Getz(sp?) rings a bell

 

That would be Geoff Goetz, a lefthanded reliever (usually) who could throw 94-96. The Marlins liked him a lot, but if I remember, he had some shoulder problems and never was the same after that.

The name Geoff Getz(sp?) rings a bell

 

 

Yeah, but Goetz was part of that Preston Wilson package, so I think we made out okay on that deal.

 

Plus, we also got Ed Yarnall in that deal, who we then flipped (along with Mark Johnson and Todd Noel (remember him?) for Mike Lowell.

The fact that Jim Thome, who has much more negative value than Lowell, was just trade for Rowand tells me we got fleeced on Delgado big time.

The fact that Jim Thome, who has much more negative value than Lowell, was just trade for Rowand tells me we got fleeced on Delgado big time.

 

 

Not exactly. The Phils had to throw in a lot more than $7 mil to rid themselves of Thome.

The fact that Jim Thome, who has much more negative value than Lowell, was just trade for Rowand tells me we got fleeced on Delgado big time.

 

 

Not exactly. The Phils had to throw in a lot more than $7 mil to rid themselves of Thome.

 

So we shouldn't have had to pay any money, especially when he's being dealt within the division and we have two good not great prospects back.

Regardless of position, "can't miss" prospects often do.

 

I'm more upset that we're acquiring more young pitching when we already have that in droves in all levels of our system.

 

 

That's assuming those prospects were even "can't miss" prospects in the first place. We're certainly not getting any right now.

The fact that Jim Thome, who has much more negative value than Lowell, was just trade for Rowand tells me we got fleeced on Delgado big time.

 

 

Not exactly. The Phils had to throw in a lot more than $7 mil to rid themselves of Thome.

 

So we shouldn't have had to pay any money, especially when he's being dealt within the division and we have two good not great prospects back.

 

Rotoworld is implying that Philly is going to pay about 1/2 of Thome's remaining $43.5M. That plus Rowand is due $11.5M over the next 3 years. So for a team like the Marlins who are trying to shed payroll we did just fine.

Thome is a stretch away from tearing something and Delgado has just come off a very solid season. Apples to oranges.

ESPN has a similar article talking about how a proven guy is always better than an unproven guy with lots of talent

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...showtopic=53559

 

 

Yeah, remember all the "stud" players we got from the 1998-99 fire sale? Let's review.

 

Livan traded to SF for Jason Grilli and Nate Bump

Renteria traded to STL for Pablo Ozuna (the key to the deal), Braden Looper, and Armando Almanza

Robb Nen traded to SF for Ps Mike Villano, Joe Fontenot and Mick Pageler (WHO COULD FORGET?)

Moises Alou traded to HOU for P Oscar Henriquez, P Manuel Barrios and P Mark Johnson

Jeff Conine traded to KC for Blaine Mull

 

I could go on.

 

The point is that we for every Leiter we flip for an A.J. and every Kevin Brown we flip for a Derrek Lee, we make two or three trades for highly touted prospects who never do anything.

 

That's just what I thought when I saw the topic...

 

 

Remember the Fontenot!

Great thread. We are all thinking these kids will be another D Train or Brad Penny.

 

Just this evening I heard on the 790 how the Boston folks weren't too please with Hanley Ramirez's work ethic and the lack of committment he had to baseball.

 

Sounds like a kid someguy needs to chaperone in the club house, hopefully not Miggy.

But isn't it funny how whenever someone gets traded, the fans of that team automatically go ahead and bash that particular player?

 

Like the entire Red Sox Nation have had a hard-on for HanRam for years, and as soon as he's been dealt it's like "Oh, he's got work ethic problems, he'll never make it".

 

Same can be said for Mets fans with Petit.

 

Fans can be so fickle sometimes.

But isn't it funny how whenever someone gets traded, the fans of that team automatically go ahead and bash that particular player?

 

Like the entire Red Sox Nation have had a hard-on for HanRam for years, and as soon as he's been dealt it's like "Oh, he's got work ethic problems, he'll never make it".

 

Same can be said for Mets fans with Petit.

 

Fans can be so fickle sometimes.

 

Disagree. Mets fans are high on Jacobs and Petit. Mike Jacobs is an offensive machine. He won't put up Delgado numbers this year, but he's a solid offensive player with a lot of pop in his bat. Petit is no bum either. You guys did all right for yourself. We got a 34 year old 1B, with a great history and most likely will have 1-2 good years. You guys got 2 players that will be major leaguers for years to come.