January 18, 200620 yr Just something I have been pondering over the passed few days... Why wouldnt Dontrelle want to go to arbitration? Why did he agree to the offer by the Fish? Any thoughts?
January 18, 200620 yr Just something I have been pondering over the passed few days... Why wouldnt Dontrelle want to go to arbitration? Why did he agree to the offer by the Fish? Any thoughts? I thought he did go through arbitration... Nevermind...this is the line that got me, but I realize it was just negotiations: "Our conversations were never heated or frustrated," Sosnick said. "We just tried to make progress with each call. Neither of us felt like we had to go down to the last five minutes tomorrow to try to make a point. Ultimately, it was Dontrelle's decision. He was anxious to have this put behind him."
January 18, 200620 yr Just something I have been pondering over the passed few days... Why wouldnt Dontrelle want to go to arbitration? Why did he agree to the offer by the Fish? Any thoughts? Relative to what he got, is it really worth it for maybe another $500K? Plus there's always the chance that arbitration goes in the Marlins favor given the ho-hum 2004 for Dontrelle.
January 18, 200620 yr Swift is essentially correct. Both sides worked to not go to arbitration and at the numbers agreed to there was little left on the table that Willis' side could hope to garner by going through the arbitration process. Additionally it also sends a signal how highly they regard their All-Star pitcher and portends well for subsequent contract negotiations.
January 18, 200620 yr Author So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year
January 18, 200620 yr So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year Because, under the rules of arbitration, he's guaranteed no less than 80% of his 2006 salary for 2007. Considering 2007 doesn't bode well for a repeat Cy Young contendership, 80% of $4.35 million is better than rolling the dice and losing. Let's be honest, Dontrelle's good young and exciting, but his numbers aren't so great that we'd be talking record-breaking first year arbitration numbers. Just my opinion, but the Marlins could make a very compelling case in arbitration that Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency (if that makes sense). PS, Marlins2003, I'm shocked you didn't use this opportunity to throw in "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!" :cool
January 18, 200620 yr So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year Let's be honest, Dontrelle's good young and exciting, but his numbers aren't so great that we'd be talking record-breaking first year arbitration numbers. Just my opinion, but the Marlins could make a very compelling case in arbitration that Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency (if that makes sense). Can you please back this up. Give me super-two pitchers in the last ten years that have put up better numbers than 46-27 and a 3.27 ERA. Also, please tell us what you mean by inconsistent. He's been in the big leagues for 3 seasons and he's had two phenominal seasons and one mediocre season. How is that inconsistent?
January 18, 200620 yr PS, Marlins2003, I'm shocked you didn't use this opportunity to throw in "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!" :cool My copy of "Thousand and One Cliches to Use on Messageboards" is out being rebound Swifty or I probably would have
January 18, 200620 yr So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year Let's be honest, Dontrelle's good young and exciting, but his numbers aren't so great that we'd be talking record-breaking first year arbitration numbers. Just my opinion, but the Marlins could make a very compelling case in arbitration that Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency (if that makes sense). Can you please back this up. Give me super-two pitchers in the last ten years that have put up better numbers than 46-27 and a 3.27 ERA. Also, please tell us what you mean by inconsistent. He's been in the big leagues for 3 seasons and he's had two phenominal seasons and one mediocre season. How is that inconsistent? Consistency is not Dontrelle's strong suit. I'm sorry. Starting 2003 out 9-1 with a 2 ERA and ending 5-5 with an ERA close to 5 isn't consistent. Being a sub .500 pitcher in 2004 (10-11, 4.02 ERA) is again inconsistent. He was streaky as hell in 2005, but he put up great numbers. So, Dontrelle's had one great year (2005) one good year (2003) and one "meh" year (2004). That's inconsistent by my book. Or: 14-6, 3.30 ERA 160.7 IP 10-11, 4.02 ERA 197 IP 22-10, 2.63 ERA 236.3 IP I don't see how that even suggests a pattern of continual improvement. The only thing that he's bettered each season is number of innings pitched (which, important, is not a huge money # for pitchers). As for a starting pitcher who had a better record going into his first year of arbitration, here's one, and he's a lefty too, whose debut coincided with his team's competitive resurgence: Andy Pettitte. 1995: 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP 1996: 21-8 3.87 ERA 221 IP 1997: 18-7 2.88 ERA 240.3 IP And Pettitte both lowered his ERA every year and his number of losses, while increasing his numbers of innings thrown. Next?
January 18, 200620 yr Fantastic. We are having our own D Train arbitration case....Instead of causing rifts between the Marlins and Dontrelle, we are causing rifts between ourselves regarding our superstar pitcher.
January 18, 200620 yr So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year Let's be honest, Dontrelle's good young and exciting, but his numbers aren't so great that we'd be talking record-breaking first year arbitration numbers. Just my opinion, but the Marlins could make a very compelling case in arbitration that Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency (if that makes sense). Can you please back this up. Give me super-two pitchers in the last ten years that have put up better numbers than 46-27 and a 3.27 ERA. Also, please tell us what you mean by inconsistent. He's been in the big leagues for 3 seasons and he's had two phenominal seasons and one mediocre season. How is that inconsistent? Consistency is not Dontrelle's strong suit. I'm sorry. Starting 2003 out 9-1 with a 2 ERA and ending 5-5 with an ERA close to 5 isn't consistent. Being a sub .500 pitcher in 2004 (10-11, 4.02 ERA) is again inconsistent. He was streaky as hell in 2005, but he put up great numbers. So, Dontrelle's had one great year (2005) one good year (2003) and one "meh" year (2004). That's inconsistent by my book. Or: 14-6, 3.30 ERA 160.7 IP 10-11, 4.02 ERA 197 IP 22-10, 2.63 ERA 236.3 IP I don't see how that even suggests a pattern of continual improvement. The only thing that he's bettered each season is number of innings pitched (which, important, is not a huge money # for pitchers). As for a starting pitcher who had a better record going into his first year of arbitration, here's one, and he's a lefty too, whose debut coincided with his team's competitive resurgence: Andy Pettitte. 1995: 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP 1996: 21-8 3.87 ERA 221 IP 1997: 18-7 2.88 ERA 240.3 IP And Pettitte both lowered his ERA every year and his number of losses, while increasing his numbers of innings thrown. Next? You're wrong. Dontrelle simply had a sophomore slump. In addition, most pitchers go through up and down periods within a season. In fact, I'll say that all do, unless they have an absolutely dominant season (such as Pedro Martinez in the late 1990s or Randy Johnson). Dontrelle was much younger than Andy when he first came up. Andy was 23 when he put up 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP and at that same age Dontrelle put up 22-10 2.61 ERA. And Andy was on great teams those years - his ERA in 1995 was worse than Dontrelle's in 2004 yet he still had a winning record. My point about his three seasons is that it's such a short period that you can't even begin to claim to see a pattern. You could easily argue that 2004 was an abberation and not part of any inconsistency, especially when you consider he was onlyl 22 years old. Once we have 4-5 seasons to evaluate, then we can say whether or not he was inconsistent. Find me a 23 year old pitcher in the last ten or twenty years with Dontrelle's career numbers up to now. You can't.
January 18, 200620 yr So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year Let's be honest, Dontrelle's good young and exciting, but his numbers aren't so great that we'd be talking record-breaking first year arbitration numbers. Just my opinion, but the Marlins could make a very compelling case in arbitration that Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency (if that makes sense). Can you please back this up. Give me super-two pitchers in the last ten years that have put up better numbers than 46-27 and a 3.27 ERA. Also, please tell us what you mean by inconsistent. He's been in the big leagues for 3 seasons and he's had two phenominal seasons and one mediocre season. How is that inconsistent? Consistency is not Dontrelle's strong suit. I'm sorry. Starting 2003 out 9-1 with a 2 ERA and ending 5-5 with an ERA close to 5 isn't consistent. Being a sub .500 pitcher in 2004 (10-11, 4.02 ERA) is again inconsistent. He was streaky as hell in 2005, but he put up great numbers. So, Dontrelle's had one great year (2005) one good year (2003) and one "meh" year (2004). That's inconsistent by my book. Or: 14-6, 3.30 ERA 160.7 IP 10-11, 4.02 ERA 197 IP 22-10, 2.63 ERA 236.3 IP I don't see how that even suggests a pattern of continual improvement. The only thing that he's bettered each season is number of innings pitched (which, important, is not a huge money # for pitchers). As for a starting pitcher who had a better record going into his first year of arbitration, here's one, and he's a lefty too, whose debut coincided with his team's competitive resurgence: Andy Pettitte. 1995: 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP 1996: 21-8 3.87 ERA 221 IP 1997: 18-7 2.88 ERA 240.3 IP And Pettitte both lowered his ERA every year and his number of losses, while increasing his numbers of innings thrown. Next? You're wrong. Dontrelle simply had a sophomore slump. In addition, most pitchers go through up and down periods within a season. In fact, I'll say that all do, unless they have an absolutely dominant season (such as Pedro Martinez in the late 1990s or Randy Johnson). Dontrelle was much younger than Andy when he first came up. Andy was 23 when he put up 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP and at that same age Dontrelle put up 22-10 2.61 ERA. And Andy was on great teams those years - his ERA in 1995 was worse than Dontrelle's in 2004 yet he still had a winning record. My point about his three seasons is that it's such a short period that you can't even begin to claim to see a pattern. You could easily argue that 2004 was an abberation and not part of any inconsistency, especially when you consider he was onlyl 22 years old. Once we have 4-5 seasons to evaluate, then we can say whether or not he was inconsistent. Find me a 23 year old pitcher in the last ten or twenty years with Dontrelle's career numbers up to now. You can't. :lol Backing way off your "find me a first year arbitration pitcher" stance from before aren't you. A sophomore slump? Are you joking? Why didn't Pettitte have this sophomore slump? I mean, I think both are pretty fair comparisons. Hell, where was Miguel Cabrera's sophomore slump? They both came up for teams that had been (short term) unsuccessful in the recent past. They both were left-handed, they both debuted in the same season that their team made the playoffs for the first time in a while. Pettitte improved every year, Willis has had a rather erratic three seasons. And, since we're doing a 23 year old pitcher game, here's one with better numbers: Vida Blue: At 23 he was 53-28.
January 18, 200620 yr So in arbi lets say marlins offer 3 and Willis asks for 8 He gets the 3, after taxes, paying the agent--its not like some amazing raise from what he was making last year...more, obvi but not tons more...if the arbitrator gives him 8, thats great--thats life changing money...why not roll the dice on it? 22 wins with little chance of having as great of a season this year Let's be honest, Dontrelle's good young and exciting, but his numbers aren't so great that we'd be talking record-breaking first year arbitration numbers. Just my opinion, but the Marlins could make a very compelling case in arbitration that Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency (if that makes sense). Can you please back this up. Give me super-two pitchers in the last ten years that have put up better numbers than 46-27 and a 3.27 ERA. Also, please tell us what you mean by inconsistent. He's been in the big leagues for 3 seasons and he's had two phenominal seasons and one mediocre season. How is that inconsistent? Consistency is not Dontrelle's strong suit. I'm sorry. Starting 2003 out 9-1 with a 2 ERA and ending 5-5 with an ERA close to 5 isn't consistent. Being a sub .500 pitcher in 2004 (10-11, 4.02 ERA) is again inconsistent. He was streaky as hell in 2005, but he put up great numbers. So, Dontrelle's had one great year (2005) one good year (2003) and one "meh" year (2004). That's inconsistent by my book. Or: 14-6, 3.30 ERA 160.7 IP 10-11, 4.02 ERA 197 IP 22-10, 2.63 ERA 236.3 IP I don't see how that even suggests a pattern of continual improvement. The only thing that he's bettered each season is number of innings pitched (which, important, is not a huge money # for pitchers). As for a starting pitcher who had a better record going into his first year of arbitration, here's one, and he's a lefty too, whose debut coincided with his team's competitive resurgence: Andy Pettitte. 1995: 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP 1996: 21-8 3.87 ERA 221 IP 1997: 18-7 2.88 ERA 240.3 IP And Pettitte both lowered his ERA every year and his number of losses, while increasing his numbers of innings thrown. Next? You're wrong. Dontrelle simply had a sophomore slump. In addition, most pitchers go through up and down periods within a season. In fact, I'll say that all do, unless they have an absolutely dominant season (such as Pedro Martinez in the late 1990s or Randy Johnson). Dontrelle was much younger than Andy when he first came up. Andy was 23 when he put up 12-9 4.17 ERA 175 IP and at that same age Dontrelle put up 22-10 2.61 ERA. And Andy was on great teams those years - his ERA in 1995 was worse than Dontrelle's in 2004 yet he still had a winning record. My point about his three seasons is that it's such a short period that you can't even begin to claim to see a pattern. You could easily argue that 2004 was an abberation and not part of any inconsistency, especially when you consider he was onlyl 22 years old. Once we have 4-5 seasons to evaluate, then we can say whether or not he was inconsistent. Find me a 23 year old pitcher in the last ten or twenty years with Dontrelle's career numbers up to now. You can't. :lol Backing way off your "find me a first year arbitration pitcher" stance from before aren't you. A sophomore slump? Are you joking? Why didn't Pettitte have this sophomore slump? I mean, I think both are pretty fair comparisons. They both came up for teams that had been (short term) unsuccessful in the recent past. They both were left-handed, they both debuted in the same season that their team made the playoffs for the first time in a while. Pettitte improved every year, Willis has had a rather erratic three seasons. And, since we're doing a 23 year old pitcher game, here's one with better numbers: Vida Blue: At 23 he was 53-28. No, I am not backing off. Andy Pettitte had more wins but a higher ERA. His numbers weren't better. They are comparable (more wins but higher ERA). You still can't say that you can find a "super-two" first year arbitration starting pitcher in the last ten years that has done better than Dontrelle. Andy Pettite couldn't have had a sophomore slump because he didn't have a great rookie season. In 1996 Andy's ERA was only .15 lower than Dontrelle's sophomore slump. He had many more wins, but his team did win 92 games that season... so he had a better team around him than Dontrelle did. Just to put things into perspective, Dontrelle had one bad month in 2005 (July). Without that month, his season ERA is 1.98. And I am glad you found someone with a better lifetime record than Dontrelle at age 23. Vida Blue was a hell of a pitcher. You can't argue that a pitcher is inconsistent by simply pointing out that within seasons he had slumps. Who the f*** doesn't have slumps???? Everyone does. That's why you look at an entire season. So far, he's had a Cy Young caliber season, a ROY season, and a mediocre (but not bad) season. If after 6 seasons he has two Cy Young caliber seasons, one ROY season, and three mediocre seasons all jumbled together then I will admit that he's inconsistent. But three seasons (all while the pitcher is extremely young) simply isn't a big enough sample size to call him inconsistent.
January 18, 200620 yr Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that.
January 18, 200620 yr Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that. Exactly. And in 2000 he wasn't dominant, but he wasn't bad (his ERA was like 3.86).
January 18, 200620 yr Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that. Bring up 2003 and 2004. It's only fair to evaluate "consistency" by looking at the best and worst, otherwise it's simply an unfair sample field. Andy Pettite couldn't have had a sophomore slump because he didn't have a great rookie season. In 1996 Andy's ERA was only .15 lower than Dontrelle's sophomore slump. He had many more wins, but his team did win 92 games that season... so he had a better team around him than Dontrelle did. Didn't the '03 Marlins also win 92 games? And I am glad you found someone with a better lifetime record than Dontrelle at age 23. Vida Blue was a hell of a pitcher. Funny, after his 23rd, Blue became, essentially, a .500 pitcher. You can't argue that a pitcher is inconsistent by simply pointing out that within seasons he had slumps. Who the f*** doesn't have slumps???? Everyone does. That's why you look at an entire season. So far, he's had a Cy Young caliber season, a ROY season, and a mediocre (but not bad) season. If after 6 seasons he has two Cy Young caliber seasons, one ROY season, and three mediocre seasons all jumbled together then I will admit that he's inconsistent. But three seasons (all while the pitcher is extremely young) simply isn't a big enough sample size to call him inconsistent. Winning rookie of the year doesn't make a year great; the media votes for it, many factors have to be considered, not the slightest of which is that Dontrelle was a "sexier" story than Scott Podsednik (who many would argue deserved the '03 ROY award). Give me numbers, two good seasons sandwiched a "meh" season, all while no numbers indicate a consistent improvement, other than innings pitched. However, I do agree completely that 2006 is his "make good" year. If he comes up big, then I have no problem calling him an ace.
January 18, 200620 yr Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that. Bring up 2003 and 2004. It's only fair to evaluate "consistency" by looking at the best and worst, otherwise it's simply an unfair sample field. You said "he was streaky as hell in 2005". I was just proving you wrong. I don't deny the fact he was streaky 2003-2004.
January 18, 200620 yr Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that. Bring up 2003 and 2004. It's only fair to evaluate "consistency" by looking at the best and worst, otherwise it's simply an unfair sample field. You said "he was streaky as hell in 2005". I was just proving you wrong. I don't deny the fact he was streaky 2003-2004. Well, I'm sorry, perhaps I allowed myself to exagerate June and July, because it seemed that's when we were most desperate for wins and even Dontrelle was getting lit up. And honestly, I don't recall his August being that good, but numbers don't lie.
January 19, 200620 yr Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that. Bring up 2003 and 2004. It's only fair to evaluate "consistency" by looking at the best and worst, otherwise it's simply an unfair sample field. Andy Pettite couldn't have had a sophomore slump because he didn't have a great rookie season. In 1996 Andy's ERA was only .15 lower than Dontrelle's sophomore slump. He had many more wins, but his team did win 92 games that season... so he had a better team around him than Dontrelle did. Didn't the '03 Marlins also win 92 games? And I am glad you found someone with a better lifetime record than Dontrelle at age 23. Vida Blue was a hell of a pitcher. Funny, after his 23rd, Blue became, essentially, a .500 pitcher. You can't argue that a pitcher is inconsistent by simply pointing out that within seasons he had slumps. Who the f*** doesn't have slumps???? Everyone does. That's why you look at an entire season. So far, he's had a Cy Young caliber season, a ROY season, and a mediocre (but not bad) season. If after 6 seasons he has two Cy Young caliber seasons, one ROY season, and three mediocre seasons all jumbled together then I will admit that he's inconsistent. But three seasons (all while the pitcher is extremely young) simply isn't a big enough sample size to call him inconsistent. Winning rookie of the year doesn't make a year great; the media votes for it, many factors have to be considered, not the slightest of which is that Dontrelle was a "sexier" story than Scott Podsednik (who many would argue deserved the '03 ROY award). Give me numbers, two good seasons sandwiched a "meh" season, all while no numbers indicate a consistent improvement, other than innings pitched. However, I do agree completely that 2006 is his "make good" year. If he comes up big, then I have no problem calling him an ace. Fair enough. I didn't call him consistent. I just think it's ridiculous to call him inconsistent. If he goes 18-10 with a 3 ERA next season then he'll definitely be an ace. Three good to great seasons and one mediocre season early in a pitcher's career (who's also very young) is definitely not inconsistency. Also, Dontrelle's inconsistency during 2003 and 2004 was probably mechanical. He's fixed that (but he messed it up again in July 2005). Now that he knows himself better and has more experience, we'll start to really see if he's going to consistently be one of the top pitchers in MLB for the next decade or so (barring injury). I am going to bet that he has an ERA of about 3.20 or lower next season. Probably under 3. Lets look at D-Train's month by month stats: April: 5 Starts, 5-0, 1.29 ERA, 35 Innings, 3 CGs May: 5 Starts, 2-3, 2.06 ERA, 35 Innings, 0 CGs June: 6 Starts, 4-1, 2.62, 44.2 Innings, 1 CG July: 5 Starts, 2-3, 7.14 ERA, 29.0 Innings, 1 CG August: 6 Starts, 4-2, 1.06 ERA, 42.1 Innings, 1 CG September: 7 Starts, 4-2, 2.68 ERA, 50.1 Innings, 1 CG In only 5 starts did he allow more than 3 runs. Unless you mean streaky in a good way. Where he is 3 god-like months, 2 HOFer-like months, and one sh*tty month than I get your point. As for his career, take a look at his stats before being called up. Besides 2000 and 2004 Dontrelle has been dominant at every level. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/W/dontrelle-willis.shtml Dontrelle is an ace. Simple as that. Bring up 2003 and 2004. It's only fair to evaluate "consistency" by looking at the best and worst, otherwise it's simply an unfair sample field. You said "he was streaky as hell in 2005". I was just proving you wrong. I don't deny the fact he was streaky 2003-2004. Well, I'm sorry, perhaps I allowed myself to exagerate June and July, because it seemed that's when we were most desperate for wins and even Dontrelle was getting lit up. And honestly, I don't recall his August being that good, but numbers don't lie. Yes, numbers don't lie. We were most desperate for wins in September and he went 4-2 with a 2.68 ERA. He came up big. We just couldn't score.
January 19, 200620 yr There are arguments to be made against Willis being worth what he might want, and he didn't want to hear those from the organization that he has respect for.
January 19, 200620 yr PS, Marlins2003, I'm shocked you didn't use this opportunity to throw in "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!" :cool My copy of "Thousand and One Cliches to Use on Messageboards" is out being rebound Swifty or I probably would have :lol
January 20, 200620 yr Willis' career track record simply indicates amazingly consistent inconsistency I stopped reading after that . . .
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