redsoxplasticfigureman

link Interesting this is!

How much Offense do the O's really need? They are turning into the Rangers of the East. I mean you'd think that this line up would be good enough the way it is, how many potential 20-30 HR, 100 RBI guys does a team need? Sosa, Palmiero, Mora, Gibbons, Nevin, Tejada?... and Brian Roberts isn't playing to shabby either. Unless the Orioles are going to move Nevin, or one of those other guys they will be stuck in 3rd place until they get some quality pitching. 871746[/snapback] The offense is what has been losing the majority of the games for about the last month.I dont care what you guys say, I'm not going to let you rain on my parade, Sidney Ponson might be gone! 871749[/snapback] Bamer so you would rather spend the 11mil on a okay 1st baseman then on a decent starter?Seriously the O's are not going to make the playoffs without pitching they have Sox,Yankees,Blue Jays,Twins,Anaheim,Chicago and Oakland who all have a better pitching staff than the O's.There are only 4 teams that are going to make it to the dance and the only chance they have is the wildcard.My bet is the the Wild card is not coming from the East this year Minnesota will take the final spot.The White Sox and Angels are locks barring a major disaster on either of those teams.You gotta believe either Boston or NewYork are going to take the East.I don't think the O's will last in the race witout some decent pitching. Expecially with no ACE.

"Phil doesn't want to go anywhere," Axelrod told TSN. "He's from this area. He's building a new home in San Diego. He has three children in school here. His parents attend a good portion of the games -- they live 80 or 90 miles up the road. San Diego is where he wants to be." http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/ken-ro.../20050723a.html 871732[/snapback] WOW!!Does anyone want to play for the O's??????You have to wonder what the hell the O's FO is thinking.They are looking more and more desperate as the days go by.

Well, they have no room for Lowell now. Maybe the one thing we've haven't about is this: The O's simply don't know what they're doing and don't know how to react in a pennant race. 871721[/snapback] That is a very good point!!!If the O's want to stay in the race pitching will get them there and not offense as we have seen with the 2003 Sox and 2004 Yankees.Offense wins you games,pitching wins you championships.

That isn't realistic. They wouldnt trade a starter until they knew for sure they would be getting Burnett and for the Marlins Nevin wouldn't improve anything. 871709[/snapback] Well, they can still go after one of the other available starters. I'm betting that they can get Weaver or one of the other names floating around for much less than they'd be giving up to Florida. Of course, Burnett is the best name out there, but if they gave up on the deal, they aren't SOL for a starter. 871718[/snapback] Actually they are SOL Weaver blows.Or did you forget how he pitched for the Yankees! If the published reports about the O's wanting to shed Ponsons contract so they can take on Lowell are true,then this Nevin deal has Nixed the idea of Burnett going to the O's since Nevins contract is about the same money wise. I take it that Nevin will play 1st while Palmeiro DH's?Then they platoon Gibbons and Bigbie in the OF?

That would be a decent trade if Mays hadn't gotten bombed in 4 of his last 7 outings!!!The sox are more interested in Romero and are not going to give up Mueller for Mays.

I hope you Marlin fans are watching this. The Sox and O's fans are creaming all over themselves at the thought of getting Burnett. Sorry, go cry in your beah...and eat a crab.....but I do hope one of you beat the Yankees. 871048[/snapback] Too be Honest most Sox fans don't want to see Burnett come to Boston.Most think he will be bust kinda like what Pavano is to the Yankees right now and would rather stay with Arroyo. Boston doesn't need a starter they need a closer we have Schilling.

That may be true, but Gammons is a huge Red Sox fan lol. A newspaper article I read earlier today was saying that the Red Sox were having second thoughts about dealing Arroyo and were wanting to try to get Burnett for Wade Miller and prospects instead. 871088[/snapback] I read the same thing!You have to wonder how much of any of these reports/rumors are true. The Redsox would be stupid not to trade Arroyo for Burnett.But perhaps with Pavano's struggles so far with the Yankees may have put a sour taste in there mouths and not wanting to risk it.

What exactly is Boston offering? I know Arroyo but what else? 871061[/snapback] One had a 3 way with the Twinkies sending Joe Mays,Arroya and a prospect the Marlins way.While sox would get Burnett,Lowell and Romero.Twins would get Mueller and prospects. But there were many others trying to find them.

You are assuming that Burnett will be gone after the season, this is one of the places he would like to sign. 871043[/snapback] You didn't hear what Gammons said about Burnett today? link Here is what was said. Gammons is on WEEI now speaking of the Burnett trade. Mentions that it will be difficult for the Sox to deal with them given the acrimonious relationship between the owners. Also mentioned that Burnett desperately wants to come to Boston - so much so that he's made clear his intention to test FA if dealt to the Orioles. Edit: Also mentioned that the Yankees really aren't all that interested in Burnett and was only in it attempting to "dump" Pavano's contract It goes on a few pages after Gammons basically said (paraphrasing to the best of my recollection) "AJ wants to play for Boston so bad that he will go to free agency if he ends up anywhere else" No mention of why. As far as I know Burnett has no connection to the area. Take it FWIW

I still believe that the Redsox proposed trade is far better than what the O's are offering!! If the Marlins were to get Arroyo you guys would love him.

I'm not saying the Orioles are going to the World series or anything. But this trade is a no brainer once the money is worked out, they have to do it, it improves the team for sure. 870952[/snapback] What are they gonna do with Lowell paying him what 13 million assuming the Marlins pay about 5 mill? There not going to sit Mora or Palmeiro.

Spoken like a true sawcks fan...If you think Julio is the only decent reliever the Orioles have you havent been watching. Chris Ray will take his job , a rookie with trememndous upside and an ERA below 1. The problems in the bullpen have been Steve Reed who was designated for assignment a week ago, Steve Kline who is probably in the trade, and BJ Ryan had a couple bad games recently. 870782[/snapback] Okay so you are ready and willing to throw a unproven relief pitcher in the middle of a pennant race in the same division as the Sox and Yankees and don't forget the Jays?The O's would be a heck of a team if they have the pitching to go along with there awesome offense.All three of the teams listed below have better pitching staffs then the O's do.Burnett isn't going to make a difference if your starters can't go 6-7 innings and only give up 3-4 runs.Even by some miracle if the O's do win the east or take the wild card there starters have absolutly no playoff expierience at all.As a Sox fan i saw last year how important starting pitching is in 5 OR 7 game series.1 guy is not going to do it it takes the whole staff from starter to closer and the O's do not have it period even with Burnett. 870821[/snapback] Again, have you been watching. The pitching has been good lately. The offense isnt producing and thats been losing us games. Tonight Chen got hit hard by a liner, maybe that was why he got rocked or maybe not. Ray might not take Julio's place , I'm not sure, Jason Grimsley may get that job actually. I'm not seeing how the Red Sox rotation or the Yankees are so good, really all 3 of the top teams in the division have very close roations in my opinion. 870852[/snapback] Playoff expierience is the big diffrence!!Everyone of the Sox starters have playoff expierience and have won.The only weakness i see on the Sox from a pitching perspective is in the bullpen.Schilling isn't going to be closing games in the playoffs he is going to be a starter which makes there starting rotation even stronger when healthy.They are one arm away pitching wise to be a pitching staff that can getou through the playoffs and win. The Yankees also with Johnson,Mussina.Gordon,Rivera,Pavano,Sturtze who all have dug deep in the playoffs and won. The playoffs are a whole different monster than the regular season, where you can afford a few bad starts.In the playoffs your either a hero or a chump and the chumps are usually the ones with no expierience. I'm not trying to knock the O's but i truly believe they don't have a enough to beat the Sox and Yankees and get anywhere in the playoffs.

LMAO the O's trading away the only decent relief help they have for a rent a player.If the O's are this desperate for? Burnett and are willing to give up Kline and Julio or even one of them then make that trade and quick.Also to take on Lowell and his salary were he is just going to sit on the bench.LMAO!!!!The O's if they do this trade are pure idiots and should be the laughing stock of baseball.If the O's think that 1 pitcher is going to bring them over the top against the Sox and Yankees there FO? is seriously smokin some crack. 870747[/snapback] Spoken like a true sawcks fan...If you think Julio is the only decent reliever the Orioles have you havent been watching. Chris Ray will take his job , a rookie with trememndous upside and an ERA below 1. The problems in the bullpen have been Steve Reed who was designated for assignment a week ago, Steve Kline who is probably in the trade, and BJ Ryan had a couple bad games recently. 870782[/snapback] Okay so you are ready and willing to throw a unproven relief pitcher in the middle of a pennant race in the same division as the Sox and Yankees and don't forget the Jays?The O's would be a heck of a team if they have the pitching to go along with there awesome offense.All three of the teams listed below have better pitching staffs then the O's do.Burnett isn't going to make a difference if your starters can't go 6-7 innings and only give up 3-4 runs.Even by some miracle if the O's do win the east or take the wild card there starters have absolutly no playoff expierience at all.As a Sox fan i saw last year how important starting pitching is in 5 OR 7 game series.1 guy is not going to do it it takes the whole staff from starter to closer and the O's do not have it period even with Burnett.

LMAO the O's trading away the only decent relief help they have for a rent a player.If the O's are this desperate for Burnett and are willing to give up Kline and Julio or even one of them then make that trade and quick.Also to take on Lowell and his salary were he is just going to sit on the bench.LMAO!!!!The O's if they do this trade are pure idiots and should be the laughing stock of baseball.If the O's think that 1 pitcher is going to bring them over the top against the Sox and Yankees there FO is seriously smokin some crack.

I don't think Valdez is a lefty. I'm not defending the trade, but it's apparent that you where boston-tinted glasses yourself.? Arroyo is not comparable to AJ Burnett.? And not even that close. 869673[/snapback] :blink: since when did he change his pitching hand from right to left :plain 869684[/snapback] Okay shoot me Valdez is righty but still the trade makes no sense but for the fish.

I don't think Valdez is a lefty. I'm not defending the trade, but it's apparent that you where boston-tinted glasses yourself.? Arroyo is not comparable to AJ Burnett.? And not even that close. 869673[/snapback] Lets look at this years stats with Burnett first: A Burnett W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO 6 6 3.68 19 19 3 1 124.2 111 60 51 9 3 47 120 Arroyo W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO 8 5 4.05 20 19 0 0 122.1 121 62 55 14 9 27 68 Now here are the versus numbers for the starters now keep in mind that Arroyo pitches in the A.L which we would both agree is a pitchers nightmare given those A.L lineups.Also he pitches in a very hitter friendly Fenway Park. The only diffrence i see is the strikeouts and actually Arroyo has the better #s considering the league he is in and the hitting talent he faces every 5 days.

Ok, yall want Encarnacion to? Or another prospect? I dont see how that deal is terribly lopsided. 869599[/snapback] Considering Valdez hasn't pitched since he is on the DL.Players on the DL can't be traded .Even if he was healthy Valdez would get killed in fenway since he is a lefty. As you have the trade as the Marlins giving up Burnett who is a FA to be at the end of the season,A left handed pitcher currently on the DL and a ML ready pitching prospect which would be who? The Redsox would give up Miller who is a legit #2 when healthy and Arroyo who is comparible to Burnett .Then you would want the Sox to give away a ML ready pitcher who in the sox system could be Papelbon,Declaremen or other.Then a major league lefty in Embree who is a decent pitcher when he pitches well. The Reds then would give up Willy Mo Pena who is a starter in left for 2 unknowns and a middle relief lefty who has strugged so far. So in turn the Marlins are giving up essentially Burnett for 2 established decent ML pitchers and a starting left fielder. If you don't see how this trade is lopsided then please give me some of what your smokin.LOL

I know there is a slim to none chance Burnett will stay, but I am almost as happy at getting compensation picks than I am at some of the stuff we are getting in return. Actually here is my dream deal: Red Sox get: AJ Burnett Ismael Valdez(I know he has no real trade value, but they do need stregnth in the pen) Reds get: Marlins MLB ready pitching prospect Red Sox MLB ready pitching prospect Alan Embree Marlins get: Bronson Arroyo Wade Miller Willy Mo Pena 2006 Lineup CF Juan Pierre 2B Luis Castillo 3B Miguel Cabrera 1B Carlos Delgado RF Willy Mo Pena C Paul Lo Duca LF Jeremy Hermida SS Alex Gonzalez 2006 Rotation Dontrelle Willis Josh Beckett Bronson Arroyo Scott Olsen/Jason Vargas(whichever impresses more in ST) Wade Miller. I know this clashes with my idea of completely building the pen and rotation in-house, but since this deal would be made this year, it really doesnt, and it gives a couple of our guys 1 more year. Also, since the team will be exremely young(only players 30 or ever=Miller, Delgado, Castillo, and Lo Duca), we need firey manger Pena. That is a WS calibre team. Also, the team would be cheap: Willy Mo, Olsen, Vargas, Cabrera, and Hermida would all be in the $300-$400 K price range, Miller and Arroyo would prob be $1.5-2.5 million, Beckett and Willis would both still be reasonibly priced, and since we know the status of Delgado, Castillo, and Lo Duca's contracts, it would afford us the payroll flexibility to work around that and give Gonzo what he needs to stay, give Pierre a 2 or 3 year deal, and make any mid season moves that need to be made. THIS SHOULD BE THE DEAL! 869490[/snapback] I know your a fish fan but nothing like making up a lopsided deal for your fav team!It will never happen from a Redsox perspective and if it did the FO would then be put in front of a firing squad here in Boston.

It's my first post here so please take it easy on me . I don't think the Redsox are going to bite on Burnett unless Lowell is taken off the table.Lowells numbers this year are similiar to what Kevin Millars are.Not to mention at the 18 million owed to Lowell.In fact i think the Marlins are grasping at straws here trying to include a under performing 3rd basemen with a 3-4 starter at this point.I do believe that Burnett can be great if given time with Varitek and become a legitimate cy young contender. As for the Redsox side Arroyo isn't a great pitcher similiar to Burnett in many ways without the k's and with a habit of hanging his breaking pitches. The only way i would make this trade from a Redsox side is if Lowell is taken out and i would give up Arroyo,Moss and Embree maybe throw in another middle end prospect if i can sign Burnett to a extension. 869412[/snapback] How kind of you to give a guy you just DFA'd, a third tier prospect and a pitcher who will be out of baseball in 3 years. 869419[/snapback] All Embree needs is a change of scenery and would probbaly work out as well as Chad Fox did.As for Moss he is the one of the Redsox top 10 prospects and is killing the ball recently after his slow start. 869452[/snapback] Saying somebody is a top ten prospect within an organization is really not great praise when you think about it. In any event we both know he is not one of the RS prized youngsters. 869459[/snapback] Lets do it this way taking Lowell out of the trade what would you want for Burnett as is with no "72 hour window"?

It's my first post here so please take it easy on me . I don't think the Redsox are going to bite on Burnett unless Lowell is taken off the table.Lowells numbers this year are similiar to what Kevin Millars are.Not to mention at the 18 million owed to Lowell.In fact i think the Marlins are grasping at straws here trying to include a under performing 3rd basemen with a 3-4 starter at this point.I do believe that Burnett can be great if given time with Varitek and become a legitimate cy young contender. As for the Redsox side Arroyo isn't a great pitcher similiar to Burnett in many ways without the k's and with a habit of hanging his breaking pitches. The only way i would make this trade from a Redsox side is if Lowell is taken out and i would give up Arroyo,Moss and Embree maybe throw in another middle end prospect if i can sign Burnett to a extension. 869412[/snapback] How kind of you to give a guy you just DFA'd, a third tier prospect and a pitcher who will be out of baseball in 3 years. 869419[/snapback] All Embree needs is a change of scenery and would probbaly work out as well as Chad Fox did.As for Moss he is the one of the Redsox top 10 prospects and is killing the ball recently after his slow start.

It's my first post here so please take it easy on me . I don't think the Redsox are going to bite on Burnett unless Lowell is taken off the table.Lowells numbers this year are similiar to what Kevin Millars are.Not to mention at the 18 million owed to Lowell.In fact i think the Marlins are grasping at straws here trying to include a under performing 3rd basemen with a 3-4 starter at this point.I do believe that Burnett can be great if given time with Varitek and become a legitimate cy young contender. As for the Redsox side Arroyo isn't a great pitcher similiar to Burnett in many ways without the k's and with a habit of hanging his breaking pitches. The only way i would make this trade from a Redsox side is if Lowell is taken out and i would give up Arroyo,Moss and Embree maybe throw in another middle end prospect if i can sign Burnett to a extension. 869412[/snapback] Welcome to the boards I know my first post wasn't popular so I be easy on ya. My posts is in regards to what I bolded. If you see that and truly beleive it what makes you think that the Sox won't see and realize that he is more valuable later to them now then later which ultimatly raises his value now. 869417[/snapback] I don't know what the Sox FO thinks about Burnett longterm.I think that the Sox not demanding the 72 hour window to sign him long term says 1 of 2 things either they don't want to sign him longterm or they believe they can sign him before the season ends.If i was Theo i would want Burnett longterm for the reasons i stated above. As for trade value, sure the value rises in my opinion but the Sox are not going to give up the top 5 prospects which are Papelbon,Lester,Pedroia,H.Ramirez or A.Sanchez,Everyone else is pretty much tradeable.

It's my first post here so please take it easy on me . I don't think the Redsox are going to bite on Burnett unless Lowell is taken off the table.Lowells numbers this year are similiar to what Kevin Millars are.Not to mention at the 18 million owed to Lowell.In fact i think the Marlins are grasping at straws here trying to include a under performing 3rd basemen with a 3-4 starter at this point.I do believe that Burnett can be great if given time with Varitek and become a legitimate cy young contender. As for the Redsox side Arroyo isn't a great pitcher similiar to Burnett in many ways without the k's and with a habit of hanging his breaking pitches. The only way i would make this trade from a Redsox side is if Lowell is taken out and i would give up Arroyo,Moss and Embree maybe throw in another middle end prospect if i can sign Burnett to a extension.