BZ75

i'm not so sure which pitcher is more valuable to his respective team just because of how many more innings schmidt pitched at his level. i'm close to saying schmidt was more valuable, but it has to be noted that gagne's ERA was almost half that of schmidt. My thoughts exactly. And even then, if we tried to figure out who exactly was the most valuable pitcher this year it would still be difficult to answer.

You can't blame the writers for voting for Gagne. He had a spectacular year. One could argue that a pitcher like Mark Prior or a Jason Shmidt is more valuable than a closer like Gagne. I mean, I would want the ace pitcher...most definitely. BUT the Cy Young isn't given to the most valuable pitcher...and I can't say that Gagne was the best pitcher all around b/c it's very difficult to compare his innings pitched to those of a starters. But I doubt anyone would deny how awesome Gagne was. If this was the American League and we were talking about Keith Foulke wining...then sure I would be annoyed...and I like Foulke. He's an excellent closer. But Gagne wasn't only excellent this year. He was ridiculously dominant and freakishly awesome...if I could make up a new word...I would. Giantsin04, you can't honestly tell me that you aren't letting your bias take over.

Welcome to the board...I'm relatively new myself

Well, my understanding is that when a player tests positive for steroids, his name will be released. Baseball has been under tons of scrutiny for a while now. Sportswriters are constantly using Bonds and Sosa as whipping boys. So, if a player is named, there would be a lot of media backlash. I have a feeling that MLB did its best to try to make the situation much lighter than it is. I think guys like Bud Selig have a very distorted image of baseball, and everytime Selig and Co. speak...they sound as if they're trying to pull a fast one on us. As far as this issue goes, I don't think there's any happiness to be felt from today's report. Read all of the columns tomorrow, and you'll know why. Because baseball has already been crapped on as of today...and there's proof of it in that report. Sure, it's best if those that are guilty are punished, but it's not something to be happy about. It's sort of a catch-22 I guess. If Bonds is caught using steroids, the last thing I say will be," Yay! I'm so glad that jerk got caught!" If Bonds is caught, a lot of small children will grow up overnight.

Beinfest deserved it.? No one did more with less - just look at the payroll differences between Florida and SF.? Then, look at all the moves that went into making this team a champion - Beinfest was robbed.? There is still too much anti-Marlin sentiment (envy) out there.? Yes, that is what I said. If McKeon does not win NL Manager, then it will be a sham.? This team went from 10 games under .500 to champs.? When was the last time that was done?? Cox should get some credit too, the Braves did pretty well considering, but they were still a playoff team on paper.? Alou, please.? When you have Barry Bonds in your lineup, you dont really have to figure things out that much.? That team did not miss a beat because that team runs on Bonds alone.? Look at what we did against them in the playoffs to see that example in place. I think Sabean needs to be given a minute amount of credit for at least signing Bonds. But Beinfest deserved it THIS year, definitely. The biggest reason is the talent from the minor leagues that did well in the big leagues. Sorry, it doesn't take a genius to sign one of the best players in baseball history. Especially if you have money to throw around. Hence the word "minute."

for those who care about the more esoteric stats (which is nobody, I'm sure): VORP: Berroa: 34.0 Matsui: 22.5 Gerut: 17.9 RAP: Berroa: 27.0 Matsui: 23.6 Gerut: 20.1 Matsui's playing time gives him the edge over Gerut, but Berroa comes out on top. Apparently, George doesn't care. All that matters is that a Yankee didn't win.

Beinfest deserved it. No one did more with less - just look at the payroll differences between Florida and SF. Then, look at all the moves that went into making this team a champion - Beinfest was robbed. There is still too much anti-Marlin sentiment (envy) out there. Yes, that is what I said. If McKeon does not win NL Manager, then it will be a sham. This team went from 10 games under .500 to champs. When was the last time that was done? Cox should get some credit too, the Braves did pretty well considering, but they were still a playoff team on paper. Alou, please. When you have Barry Bonds in your lineup, you dont really have to figure things out that much. That team did not miss a beat because that team runs on Bonds alone. Look at what we did against them in the playoffs to see that example in place. I think Sabean needs to be given a minute amount of credit for at least signing Bonds. But Beinfest deserved it THIS year, definitely. The biggest reason is the talent from the minor leagues that did well in the big leagues.

How am I biased?? Sabean is the best GM in baseball. He is ONE of the best in baseball, not the best. Theo Epstein is a better GM yea, Theo did a good job of getting 2nd place again for the Red Sox -that bullpen by committee was a wonderful idea I don't doubt that Theo is good, but I don't know how good yet. I'm interested to see how he handles the contract mess he was given with Pedro, Nomar and the others who are free agents next year.

Hype that saved our season It is so funny when people such as myself say: Wow Dontrelle is the greatest, he got crowds to come to games. We only averaged 16 f***ing thousand people per game. The world series champs. W/o that ESPN the Magazine and s*** like that Dontrelle probably wouldn't be ROY. Podsednik had a crazy a** year, especially for a rookie. And Dontrelle helped himself out with his bat, but not to an extreme where you can say he won 14 games and Webb won 10 because Dontrelle hit better. Exactly. It's all media-driven.

The reason why Dontrelle won 4 more games is because of his team's ability to score. Put Brandon Webb on the Marlins and you WOULD NOT have the B-Train or sellouts but instead a superstar. His numbers are very similar to Beckett's this year. I'm glad there are people willing to admit this.

I disagree. Although his hitting stats are way better than Webb's, they are still not good enough to say that those stast are the reason why he won four more games. ....and it looks like we have a winner for the NO SH*T, EINSTEIN award So then tell me...how was Willis better than Webb?

Pitched well enough to win games and even reverse that record, but losses are still losses.? No, they dont determine how good a pitcher is, but they certainly shape the picture.? Strikeouts dont tell us anything either.? But you have to start formulating something here. If losses don't determine how good (or bad) a pitcher is...than exactly what picture does that stat shape? Wins and losses in one season tells me very little... And stikeouts don't tell us anything? Sheesh. My brain is hurting. strikeouts mean nothing, i'll agree with that. it doesn't matter how you get them out, it matters how many runs you give up win-loss record means little apart from the offensive production of your teammates when comparing starting pitchers with similar ERAs in the AMERICAN LEAGUE. you're forgetting that in the national league, the pitcher himself has to step up to the plate. willis is a far superior hitter than webb. correct me if i'm wrong, but the rookie of the year is the best all-around rookie in the league. it's not like the cy young or the gold glove. webb might be better at pitching, but he's not all-around superior to willis. Strikeouts do matter. Especially K/9innings. Webb was a better pitcher than Willis. What you're saying is that Dontrelle's hitting stats make him better than Webb. And that they helped him win more games than Webb. I disagree. Although his hitting stats are way better than Webb's, they are still not good enough to say that those stast are the reason why he won four more games. Wins and Losses over one season say very little all by themselves...and that goes in both leagues. The most important stats are those that are obviously secondary to the voters.

Pitched well enough to win games and even reverse that record, but losses are still losses. No, they dont determine how good a pitcher is, but they certainly shape the picture. Strikeouts dont tell us anything either. But you have to start formulating something here. If losses don't determine how good (or bad) a pitcher is...than exactly what picture does that stat shape? Wins and losses in one season tells me very little... And stikeouts don't tell us anything? Sheesh. My brain is hurting.

I can understand being annoyed that Webb shot of his mouth about Willis, but I don't understand how anyone can justify Willis winning over Webb at all. It doesn't bother me that he won it. I really don't give a lot of credence to most of the awards given out, but everyone here should realize the awesome power of the media and how it affected both Willis and Webb. Willis did a great job this year, not doubt about it. Webb also did a great job...better than Willis. Yet Willis was ordained the best rookie pitcher even before the All Star break. This means nothing to me, but I bet it meant a lot to Webb. The guy busted his butt this year...and as a rookie who hasn't learned the ways of the media and how to deal with it...he probably let it get to him. I think Webb deserves a break here. you made a really good point.... but I still believe that what he said was very uncalled for. He made it seem like Dontrelle did nothing to deserve this award and that the voters should only care about the second half. Granted, Webb had a far better second half. BUT Willis had a better first half...PLUS Willis made the all-star team, got a lot of recognition from that outstanding first half, helped rejuvenate the Marlins ROTY is not just about stats...yes Webb might have had a better ERA and this and that.But Willis had something far better than stats, he had South Florida baseball fans back in those empty PPS seats for him (at first) For god's sake, the kid had coined a national nickname by his second month. Willis had more recognition for a reason. And the recognition helped him a lot obviously since reporters vote. I think most people outside of the Marlins and D-Backs fan bases looked at both of the pitchers and said, "Wow, these two guys are pretty comparable, but that dude Willis is just too freakin' cool." That's what I take from this whole thing. It's not wrong. It's just about opinions and what some may prefer. That being said, the onus is now on Webb to produce next season. He'll be the one looking like a fool if he doesn't. If he had shut his mouth, the pressure would have been on Willis.

He didn't do anything the second half This is what is so wrong with Webb comments. You can be bitter and even say that you think you deserved the award, and that's ok. But you don't belittle a peer ballplayer like that. I agree that it's was a really bad thing to say...but I'm going to give a rookie one more shot to redeem himself. So basically, he has one more shot before I lump him in with another whiny pitcher by the name of Pedro.