August 12, 200421 yr NAJAF, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military Thursday launched a major offensive against Iraqi militants loyal to renegade Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr in Najaf, south of Baghdad. CNN's Matthew Chance, embedded with U.S. Marines, said the assault by the U.S. military includes tanks, heavy weapons and armored vehicles. According to Chance, the fighting is taking place in close proximity as members of al-Sadr's Mehdi Army jump out of buildings to fire rocket-propelled grenades and mortars at American forces. The U.S. offensive comes a day after al-Sadr urged his armed followers to keep up their battle even if he is seized or killed. Iraqi and U.S. troops have been fighting al-Sadr's Mehdi Army for a week. The cleric has many supporters in Baghdad, particularly in the Sadr City neighborhood, and in southern Iraqi cities. U.S. military authorities warned Wednesday that a showdown was coming. "Iraqi and U.S. forces are making final preparations as we get ready to finish this fight that the Muqtada militia started," Col. Anthony Haslam, commanding officer of the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit, said in a statement. Al-Sadr, in a statement Wednesday, was resolute about continuing the battle but thanked those people who he said worked to establish peace in the city. Over the weekend, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said the the United Nations was "ready to extend its facilitating role to the current crisis." Al-Sadr had said Tuesday that he welcomed the help. Still, the violence continued into Wednesday. Over a 24-hour period that ended in the morning, 57 Iraqis in other al-Sadr strongholds were killed in clashes. Of those, 29 died in the Meisan province in southeastern Iraq, a Ministry of Health official said. Fourteen people were killed in Baghdad, and 10 died in Diwaniya province. Basra reported four deaths, according to the official, who added 323 Iraqis were wounded. On Tuesday, U.S. forces used loudspeakers to urge militants to surrender and residents to evacuate battle zones in the south-central city, which has an estimated population of about a half-million. Members of the Mehdi Army militia are holed up in the city's Imam Ali Shrine, one of the holiest sites in Shiite Islam, and in the Wadi al Salam cemetery. U.S. forces are firing back at militia positions in the cemetery but have not stepped foot in the sacred mosque compound. U.S. military sources said the military is considering sending Iraqi forces, rather than Americans, into the compound. Chopper crash kills 2 Marines Two U.S. Marines died late Wednesday when a CH-53 helicopter crashed in al Anbar province, west of Baghdad, the Coalition Press Information Center said. Three others were injured. According to CPIC, the aircraft went down around 10:15 p.m. (2:15 p.m. EDT) while "flying in support of security and stabilization operations" in the sprawling, restive region that includes Falluja -- a stronghold for the Iraqi resistance. The cause of the accident is under investigation, but no enemy fire was observed in the area of the helicopter. With the deaths, 935 U.S. military personnel have died in Iraq since the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Bomb explodes at market Six people were killed Wednesday morning in a market explosion in Diyala province north of Baghdad, an Iraqi Ministry of Health official said. Eleven people were wounded in the town of Khan Bani Saad, about 19 miles (30 kilometers) northeast of Baghdad, the official said. "No policemen or national guards were in al-Dijaj market," a police officer said. "The terrorists want to kill everyone." Other developments # Iraqi security forces on Wednesday battled insurgents in al-Kut after they attacked city hall, police stations and National Guard barracks, the Coalition Press Information Center said. CPIC reported casualties on both side but gave no details. Al-Kut is located about 100 miles (160 kms) southeast of Baghdad. # On the outskirts of Falluja, Marines on the ground took fire from suspected insurgents manning heavy weaponry, Marine Lt. Col. Thomas Johnson said Wednesday. The Marines called in air support. Jet fighters bombed what the officials said was a team of about eight suspected insurgents manning the weaponry. It is not known at this time if there were any casualties. # Controversial politician Ahmed Chalabi is in Iraq to face an arrest warrant, a spokesman for his Iraqi National Congress group said Wednesday. Chalabi is "in very high spirits and ready to face anything," the spokesman said. The warrant charges the former exile leader with counterfeiting. Also Wednesday, Chalabi's daughter Tamara announced in Washington that her father has filed a lawsuit against the government of Jordan. (Full story) Wow this is what its come to.
August 12, 200421 yr "Wow this is what its come to." Who do you think Americans are fighting, civilized people who think rationally ? What are Iraqis, and Americans dealing with in Iraq? The answer is simple, TERRORIST, people who claim to be freedom fighters, all they are doing is preventing peace. Did you honestly expect that there would be no uprising following the take over of Iraq...you do realize this is a WAR ZONE, it takes time and effort to restore peace, both things Pres. Bush is currently doing and striving for Beinfest4Prez you are one prentenious kid, its ok though I use to be like that, you'll grow up one day
August 12, 200421 yr Author "Wow this is what its come to." Who do you think Americans are fighting, civilized people who think rationally ? What are Iraqis, and Americans dealing with in Iraq? The answer is simple, TERRORIST, people who claim to be freedom fighters, all they are doing is preventing peace. Did you honestly expect that there would be no uprising following the take over of Iraq...you do realize this is a WAR ZONE, it takes time and effort to restore peace, both things Pres. Bush is currently doing and striving for Beinfest4Prez you are one prentenious kid, its ok though I use to be like that, you'll grow up one day 507284[/snapback] I KNOW ITS A WARZONE. But goddamnit we shouldn't even be here. And this happens to be the culmination of whats happened so far...
August 12, 200421 yr "Wow this is what its come to." Who do you think Americans are fighting, civilized people who think rationally ? What are Iraqis, and Americans dealing with in Iraq? The answer is simple, TERRORIST, people who claim to be freedom fighters, all they are doing is preventing peace. Did you honestly expect that there would be no uprising following the take over of Iraq...you do realize this is a WAR ZONE, it takes time and effort to restore peace, both things Pres. Bush is currently doing and striving for Beinfest4Prez you are one prentenious kid, its ok though I use to be like that, you'll grow up one day 507284[/snapback] Last time I checked it was Bush who proclaimed mission accomplished and it was Bush's MI that told us the rebuilding would be smooth. I dont think anyone else actually expected things to go smoothley.
August 12, 200421 yr Just turn this wack-job into a fine red mist and move on to the next wahoo. Why is it so hard to kill people nowadays?
August 12, 200421 yr Just turn this wack-job into a fine red mist and move on to the next wahoo. Why is it so hard to kill people nowadays? 507599[/snapback] I know you are being sarcastic... I hope you are being sarcastic... :o :banghead God damn it! We should have never set a foot in that country without assessing the consequences of going it alone! We should have not gone there, period! aaaargh! :mad :
August 12, 200421 yr Just turn this wack-job into a fine red mist and move on to the next wahoo. Why is it so hard to kill people nowadays? 507599[/snapback] I know you are being sarcastic... I hope you are being sarcastic... :o :banghead God damn it! We should have never set a foot in that country without assessing the consequences of going it alone! We should have not gone there, period! aaaargh! :mad : 507810[/snapback] Like your hero would say: "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement" JK, NYT, 9/6/02 "Even if the enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act" JK, NYT, 9/6/02 "The President always reserves the right to act unilaterally to defend the interests of our country" John Kerry....must I remind you again, Lcyberlina?
August 12, 200421 yr Just turn this wack-job into a fine red mist and move on to the next wahoo. Why is it so hard to kill people nowadays? 507599[/snapback] I know you are being sarcastic... I hope you are being sarcastic... :o :banghead God damn it! We should have never set a foot in that country without assessing the consequences of going it alone! We should have not gone there, period! aaaargh! :mad : 507810[/snapback] Like your hero would say: "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement" JK, NYT, 9/6/02 "Even if the enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act" JK, NYT, 9/6/02 "The President always reserves the right to act unilaterally to defend the interests of our country" John Kerry....must I remind you again, Lcyberlina? 507875[/snapback] Remind of what? John Kerry has never been against the war per se. He has been clear on the fact that he believed it was the right thing to do to get rid of Hussein, but the President rushed to war and that he completely missused the authorization congress gave him, which for your information was not a charte blanche for Mr. Bush. It was an authorization for the President to exhaust all means necessary BEFORE going to war. You see, things are not black and white hun, Mr. President sees the world that way, but it is much more complicated than that. Congress (specially the Dems) trusted Mr. President would be wise enough to confirm the intelligence findings and let the UN inspectors finish their jobs... But of course not, Mr. President is a stubborn stubborn man and he couldn't wait, so he prompted us into a war that now has us forever tied to the middle East. Needed some reminding yourself.
August 12, 200421 yr 10+ years of UN ineffectivness doesn't strike me as "rushed". 507965[/snapback] It's not a question of UN bureaucracy, but a question of US being careful and not going into war almost alone with no plan to win the peace.
August 12, 200421 yr Just turn this wack-job into a fine red mist and move on to the next wahoo. Why is it so hard to kill people nowadays? 507599[/snapback] I know you are being sarcastic... I hope you are being sarcastic... :o :banghead God damn it! We should have never set a foot in that country without assessing the consequences of going it alone! We should have not gone there, period! aaaargh! :mad : 507810[/snapback] Like your hero would say: "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement" JK, NYT, 9/6/02 "Even if the enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act" JK, NYT, 9/6/02 "The President always reserves the right to act unilaterally to defend the interests of our country" John Kerry....must I remind you again, Lcyberlina? 507875[/snapback] Youre not very good at defending Bush are you? This is Bush's war. What does it matter how you distort Kerry's words? You seem obsessed with whether John Kerry would have gone to war rather than actually defending what's going on now.
August 12, 200421 yr 10+ years of UN ineffectivness doesn't strike me as "rushed". 507965[/snapback] It's not a question of UN bureaucracy, but a question of US being careful and not going into war almost alone with no plan to win the peace. 507992[/snapback] The Clinton plan to "win the peace" in the balkans was what? Iraq is no longer the problem, outside influences are the problem. 508052[/snapback] I am not discussing Clinton. Clinton is long gone. I am discussing George W. Bush's policy in Iraq, which clearly has damaged our stance in the world more than what Clinton may have done. Let's not get sidetracked here into "but the Dems did this"... It usually turns into that when you can't defend your own policies.
August 12, 200421 yr Inability to accept and understand past failures invites future failure IMO. 508300[/snapback] It seems that Mr. Bush doesn't get your wisdom.
August 12, 200421 yr I think you exagerate the problems we're having. Losses so far are below the levels that senator Kerry was apparently willing accept when he voted to authorize. Do you forget that people were saying there'd be several thousand casualties just to accomplish the defeat of Saddam's army? 508499[/snapback] I am not exagerating anything, things are the way they are, no sugar coating. Whether you want to think that 900 American lives are "far below the levels" expected... One lost life is one loss too many. I am not going to discuss the motives and the blunders that put us into this situation again. It is pointless. This war should have never happened.
August 13, 200421 yr I am not exagerating anything, things are the way they are, no sugar coating. Whether you want to think that 900 American lives are "far below the levels" expected... One lost life is one loss too many. 508519[/snapback] What were the casualty estimates for Gulf War v1.0? One life lost is too many eh? Suppose we could save hundreds of thousands in Darfur with some sort of intervention, but it would cost a company of marines? Are you unwilling to spend American blood to benefit others? 508537[/snapback] For the right cause, I'd be willing to die myself. But I would never say that 900 lives are not worth worrying. It is easy for one to speculate with other people's sons, daughters, husbands and wives. To them their loss is great. Don't try to pin it on me to make it appear I don't care about the Iraquies, that is just disingenous...
August 13, 200421 yr to infer you don't believe the removal of Saddam is worth it in terms of benefit for the Iraqi people, reduced threat to Israel, the Saudi's and Kuwait. But that is not the reason we went in there... they have been trying to spin it like that, but the reason we went in there, the reason that was authorized, is to stop the spread of weapons. When they couldn't find any, they changed there tune. I don't believe we went in because of oppressed people. If we were looking to free oppressed people, we should start looking in our own hemesphere, like 90 miles south.
August 13, 200421 yr ...it seems fair to infer you don't believe the removal of Saddam is worth it in terms of benefit for the Iraqi people, reduced threat to Israel, the Saudi's and Kuwait. That is a good point. Saddam was definetely a mad man. He deserved to be removed. I am questioning the way we did it. I am questioning the timing, the planning (or lack of). IMO we should have not acted in the "spur of the moment", specially since we were involved in another major operation trying to catch the Terrorists that killed Americans. I want to know why this administration, particularly Rumsfeld and Cheney, dismissed the warnings, counsel and suggestions by more than a dozen of experienced military men, not even counting those officials in the administration with great foreign policy experience. This Iraq war not only seemed rushed and totally missmanaged but we went in without a clear plan for getting out.
August 14, 200421 yr Iraq was not a "distraction" from Afganistan. 510521[/snapback] Yeah, see who is back starting up the worlds largest congo line in Afganastan? Oh could it be the Taliban? Could it also be Al Queda? If you answered yes to both, you are right! Due to piss poor planning (do you notice a pattern of piss poor planning?), and the focus on Iraq, it seems that our old buddies have regrouped. Aid workers have left, because outside of the main cities, the Taliban rules. Taliban Rules. If that isn't a cool garage band name, I don't know what is...
August 14, 200421 yr Why don't you explain to us how US armor and ordinary infantry troops used in Iraq will operate in Afgani mountains? 511385[/snapback] So there is no way to win in Afganastan then right? Because what we are doing there now isn't working. I know that the thousands of aircraft over in iraq sure could help...
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