I am bashing yours because of what it did then. Not today because they are actually making an effort to support Judiasm.

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How is pleading not to have Holy Ground bombed something wrong?

513026[/snapback]

How is standing by and letting millions die not wrong?

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Take a look at what you just posted, genius.

 

Partisanship at its worst, right here.

513626[/snapback]

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

 

 

 

 

You can't deny it Juanky (or anyone else for that matter)

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

 

513631[/snapback]

The Catholic church is the largest non-government organization, it is also the most influenical organization in the world. The ideas that have been spread from the Catholic church have improved individuals

 

As far as it being anti-semitic, everything in the world outside the U.S. and Israel is anti-semitic.

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

 

513631[/snapback]

The Catholic church is the largest non-government organization, it is also the most influenical organization in the world. The ideas that have been spread from the Catholic church have improved individuals

 

As far as it being anti-semitic, everything in the world outside the U.S. and Israel is anti-semitic.

513641[/snapback]

No one has yet to explain to me why they stood by and let Jews and millions of others die when they could've spoken up about it.

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

 

513631[/snapback]

The Catholic church is the largest non-government organization, it is also the most influenical organization in the world. The ideas that have been spread from the Catholic church have improved individuals

 

As far as it being anti-semitic, everything in the world outside the U.S. and Israel is anti-semitic.

513641[/snapback]

No one has yet to explain to me why they stood by and let Jews and millions of others die when they could've spoken up about it.

513642[/snapback]

They were in the middle of Italy, which was surrounded by the facist Italian army. What could they have done?

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

 

513631[/snapback]

The Catholic church is the largest non-government organization, it is also the most influenical organization in the world. The ideas that have been spread from the Catholic church have improved individuals

 

As far as it being anti-semitic, everything in the world outside the U.S. and Israel is anti-semitic.

513641[/snapback]

No one has yet to explain to me why they stood by and let Jews and millions of others die when they could've spoken up about it.

513642[/snapback]

They were in the middle of Italy, which was surrounded by the facist Italian army. What could they have done?

513645[/snapback]

Why did single people harbor dozens of Jews when they we're surrounded by whole countries of anti-semitism and germans. Because they had the guts to stand up to facsism and not let innocents die because no one else stood up for them.

B4P, what part of "You do realize that the Holocaust was not known until pretty much after the war was completed, when the Americans were liberating most of Europe?" didn't you understand?

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

 

 

 

 

You can't deny it Juanky (or anyone else for that matter)

513631[/snapback]

What the hell? Anti-Islam? When? For the Crusades? Hell of a way to hold something that happened what, 500 years ago, against the Church today.

 

Anti-Semitic? How again? For not denouncing something no one knew was happening until after the American liberation of Germany?

 

Why do you continue to hold events that happened years before our time against us? I don't hate you because your ancestors killed my God do I?

Why do you continue to hold events that happened years before our time against us? I don't hate you because your ancestors killed my God do I?

513745[/snapback]

 

Ok Juanky, it was agreeable till you said that. That is probably the single most anti semitic thing you can say.

 

I never said anything bad about Catholicism, just the fact that your "Head" stood by and did absolutely nothing in the Holocaust. And if you brush off history it's bound to happen again. Catholic as a religion I don't mind, there are plenty of people in it that have done great things. Hell, there are plenty of catholics in the holocaust who decided to harbor Jews, some for money, but most for the fact that you're religion doesn't allow people to be murdered. You've lost a great deal of credibility here Juanky, a great deal.

VATICAN CITY -- An inquiry into the actions of war-time Pope Pius XII during the World War II has been suspended, The Associated Press reports.

 

A panel of Jewish and Catholic historians, jointly selected by the Vatican and a Jewish group, has suspended its research because the Vatican has failed to open archives crucial to the investigation, said AP.

 

But Cardinal Walter Kasper, head of the Vatican office for relations with other religions, said the archives were not accessible for "technical reasons" and denied the records would not be released.

 

Former Pope Pius XII is currently being considered for sainthood but is accused by many Jews of failing to speak out against the Holocaust during his papacy.

 

Last October the panel released a preliminary report into their investigation requesting access to the Holy See's correspondence, on the grounds crucial information was missing from the 11 volumes of documents already released by the Vatican.

 

In many cases the volumes left out the Vatican's response to reports of Holocaust atrocities, panel members said, without which they would be unable to conclude their inquiry.

 

In a letter to the group on June 21, Kasper offered to let the panel talk to the Vatican scholar on Pius, also suggesting that archives elsewhere could help answer some of the panel's questions.

 

But Eugene Fisher, a panel co-ordinator and senior official at the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington told AP that boxes of documents dated after 1923 simply have not been catalogued and bound for release.

 

The Vatican, he said, only has two archivists cataloguing the papers and has been releasing them slowly as they become ready. "It's not a question of whether," the documents will be released, he told AP. "It's all a matter of time."

 

The Jewish co-ordinator of the group, Seymour Reich, chairman of the International Jewish Committee for Inter-religious Consultations, was doubtful the archives would be made available.

 

Reich, as quoted by AP, said: "What's deeply disappointing to me and what is a letdown is the failure on the part of the Vatican to furnish a positive reply to a team of scholars, one half of whom were appointed by them."

 

Vatican officials could not be reached for comment, said AP.

 

Reverend Gerald Fogarty, a Catholic member of the panel, said he doubted the Vatican was withholding incriminating information that might slow down the beatification of Pius XII.

 

In a letter to Kasper, the five team members acknowledged they had agreed to the project without a Vatican pledge to open the archives, but said they had done so in the hopes that in the process of research the documents would become available.

 

Here's one news story concerning the matter, I will post the new one as soon as I find it.

Err, the archives are for members of the Vatican only.

Expectations high for papal apology on Israel visit

 

March 12, 2000

Web posted at: 9:33 p.m. EST (0233 GMT)

In this story:

 

'I know that he is going to address it'

 

Past attempts to ease relations

 

From staff and wire reports.

 

JERUSALEM -- Many Israelis will be watching closely during Pope John Paul II's visit to the Holy Land next week to see if the pontiff will apologize directly for the Vatican's silence during the Holocaust.

 

Anticipation for such an apology heightened Sunday when the pope did not specifically mention the Holocaust -- the murder of 6 million Jews by the Nazis and their allies -- during his historic Mass asking God to forgive the Catholic Church for centuries of wrongdoing toward Jews and other groups.

 

 

"The pope (during the Holocaust -- Pius XII) is not mentioned in the forgiveness of the pope of today," said Israel's chief rabbi, Yisrael Lau. "This silence is standing on our blood without saying one word to prevent the bloodshed. This has to be condemned."

 

Avner Shalev, director of Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust memorial, said he was moved by the pope's words, but that he expects more during next week's papal pilgrimage.

'I know that he is going to address it'

 

"He has to pay tribute and commemorate the remembrance of the Holocaust, and I know that he is going to address" it, Shalev said.

 

Rabbi David Rosen, who led Israel's negotiations with the Vatican before ties between the two were established in 1994, noted that the pope has often emphasized the church's responsibility for past persecutions of Jews.

 

The pope's statement Sunday, according to Rosen, was "an added incentive and guidance for Christians to behave today differently from the way they did in the past, and I think from that perspective, the Jewish people should welcome these kind of statements." But Rosen also said he hopes the pope will be "more direct" during his upcoming trip.

 

Past attempts to ease relations

 

It was only three decades ago that the phrase "perfidious Jews" was eliminated from Catholic liturgy, and the church told Catholics to stop what was called the "teaching of contempt" stemming from the accusation that Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus.

 

John Paul II is seen by many Jews as having gone much further than any of his predecessors toward reconciliation and penance for centuries of Christian persecution of Jews.

 

"We are deeply saddened by the behavior of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer," John Paul II said Sunday as part of his prayer, "and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood with the people of the Covenant."

 

Israeli Cabinet Secretary Isaac Herzog said, "Undoubtedly it's historic ... The feeling that the Vatican itself is leading the way to all of the believers all over the world in changing the attitude towards Judaism and Jewish people."

Err, the archives are for members of the Vatican only.

513787[/snapback]

Than what is so bad about showing the truth to the world about Pope Pius XII?

I never said anything bad about Catholicism, just the fact that your "Head" stood by and did absolutely nothing in the Holocaust. 513775[/snapback]

 

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

513631[/snapback]

 

Care to rethink your comment?

 

You basically called the Church out, in one sentence, for everything before Pope John Paul II. That is on the same level as if I were to critcize you for your ancestors killing Jesus. Same exact thing. But since the Catholics are wrong all the time and we're such evil people that hate all Jews, Muslims, and everyone basically not Catholic, then there is no way that anything you did in the past isn't open game but what we did is.

 

I apologize for having my beliefs and I'll never question any other major religion again, because the Catholics 650 years ago were such evil people.

Err, the archives are for members of the Vatican only.

513787[/snapback]

Than what is so bad about showing the truth to the world about Pope Pius XII?

513791[/snapback]

When do the Jews break centuries old custom just because of outside pressure? Why do we have to do it instead? I'm not familiar with the investigations, but I'm telling you the way the archives work. That's tradition, tradition doesn't falter 'just because'.

I never said anything bad about Catholicism, just the fact that your "Head" stood by and did absolutely nothing in the Holocaust. 513775[/snapback]

 

Pahleeze. What have the corrupt Catholic church ever done for the world until Pope John Paul II was annointed the pope. Absolutely nothing other than spew vile, gutless crap about any religion not catholic. Take it as you want, but the Catholic Church has been and always will be anti-semitic, anti-islam, anti-protestantiasm, anti-whatever else.

513631[/snapback]

 

Care to rethink your comment?

 

You basically called the Church out, in one sentence, for everything before Pope John Paul II. That is on the same level as if I were to critcize you for your ancestors killing Jesus. Same exact thing. But since the Catholics are wrong all the time and we're such evil people that hate all Jews, Muslims, and everyone basically not Catholic, then there is no way that anything you did in the past isn't open game but what we did is.

 

I apologize for having my beliefs and I'll never question any other major religion again, because the Catholics 650 years ago were such evil people.

513797[/snapback]

Sarcasm bites Juanky...

Err, the archives are for members of the Vatican only.

513787[/snapback]

Than what is so bad about showing the truth to the world about Pope Pius XII?

513791[/snapback]

When do the Jews break centuries old custom just because of outside pressure? Why do we have to do it instead? I'm not familiar with the investigations, but I'm telling you the way the archives work. That's tradition, tradition doesn't falter 'just because'.

513798[/snapback]

You know sometimes traditions are outdated. Judiasm adapts and hopefully, and I've seen it, the Catholic church tries to.

Sarcasm bites Juanky...

 

No, if you are going to try and form some kind of argument against my religion's earthly institution, don't teeter and form one set argument. You went from rambling about the Holocaust, to talking about anti-islam, to some other garbage.

 

The Crusades are over. The Holocaust is over. The reign of the Catholic Church over Europe is over. How I have anything to do with this, I don't know. Maybe it's just because I happen to be Catholic.

 

Holding the mistakes of the past against today's Church is sad and blind. It is just as blind as Nazis who killed just because of who people were. Different level, same blindness.

Sarcasm bites Juanky...

 

No, if you are going to try and form some kind of argument against my religion's earthly institution, don't teeter and form one set argument. You went from rambling about the Holocaust, to talking about anti-islam, to some other garbage.

 

The Crusades are over. The Holocaust is over. The reign of the Catholic Church over Europe is over. How I have anything to do with this, I don't know. Maybe it's just because I happen to be Catholic.

 

Holding the mistakes of the past against today's Church is sad and blind. It is just as blind as Nazis who killed just because of who people were. Different level, same blindness.

513804[/snapback]

I do hold it against em. You know why? You'd want to as well if your people were murdered by the millions and a major religious institution was at the head of some of it. As well as the fact that they stood by in the holocaust.

AT THE HEAD OF IT?

 

I didn't see any Catholics pulling triggers on guns in the Holocaust.

 

I saw people like Saint Maximilien Koby, protecting Jews. I saw people like him, dying to protect others in a concentration camp.

 

But it's ok, because only Jews died in the Holocaust, everything the Catholic Church does is wrong because of people that used to be in the Church and are no longer here, and we can't speak because of things that we did in the past but you are allowed to speak because of something that happened to you in the past.

 

It's the past. The past.

 

As long as you continue to hold the Holocaust and the Crusades against the Catholic Church, I'll continue to hold your people killing Jesus against you personally.

 

I'm not a low enough person to hate an entire religion because of something that happened 60 or 500 years ago.