There are no details, so there is no concrete information on whether this is a diesel sub or nuclear. I'm pretty confortable that it is diesel. If nuclear, Iran is a lot further along than we thought.

 

More likely than this sub being nuclear powered, and still of significant uncertainty, is how it serves as a launching platform. Iran is widely suspected of having in its possession Russian-made SS-22-N nuclear anti-ship missiles.

 

What I believe most likely, from my purely amatuer analysis, is that it can launch the new AS-18/KH-59 (Nato designation: "Kazoo") anti-ship missile, which Russia first exported this year and Iran was its first customer, although, at the time, Iran did not have a platform for launching this missile. This would at least explain why Iran wanted this missile. According to Putin, in his meeting with Chirac on January 31, this missile doesn't not keep a ballistic trajectory, changes altitude and direction, and can thus defeat all of our missile defense systems. The KH-20 version of this missile carries a nuclear warhead, but Russia has not (officially anyway) exported that version. However, the KH-59 and KH-20 use identical launch platforms.

 

Putin is upset with Bush for continuing on with our BMD (Ballistic Missile Defense) system. His argument is that the deterent against nuclear strike is retaliation, and the BMD nullified retaliation. Bush argued that the BMD is for protection against rogue launches, not Russian (I guess he was planning on letting the Russian missiles through). The result was Putin made the development of the advanced missiles that can defeat our BMD a top priority. Now, those missiles are being exported to what we consider rogue nations. I wonder when was the last time we thought things through. This is like having the Keystone Cops running the show.

 

Iran boosts Gulf presence with locally-made submarine

7 March 2006

 

TEHERAN - Iran?s armed forces have deployed a new locally-built submarine in Gulf waters, state television reported on Tuesday.

 

The vessel is named the Nahang, meaning whale, and was ?built by specialists in the Iranian defence ministry and has the capability to carry multipurpose weapons for different missions?, Rear Admiral Sajjad Kouchaki said.

 

?The submarine is fully adapted to the Persian Gulf,? he said, adding that the Iranian navy was pursuing a policy of deterrence in the strategic waters -- home to the world?s largest oil reserves.

 

No further details on the submarine were given.

 

Last May state media announced Iran had begun producing its first locally-built submarine. At the time it was called the Ghadir, named after a Shiite religious holiday.

 

According to foreign military experts, Iran?s inventory of submarines patrolling Gulf waters includes up to six Russian-built SSK or SSI Kilo class diesel submarines.

 

In recent months Israel has been dangling the threat of pre-emptive action to stop Iran?s disputed nuclear energy programme -- seen as a mask for weapons development.

 

The United States has also refused to rule out military action against Iran.

Khahleej Times (UAE)

The result was Putin made the development of the advanced missiles that can defeat our BMD a top priority.

 

:banghead

I've always thought that the Missile Shield was a waste of money, and this just seems to support that. It's extremely expensive, and unreliable technology right now.

 

Plus, the odds that we would get hit with a nuke from a missile launch, as opposed to a bomb smuggled into the U.S., seem to decrease every day. Bush must think we're still fighting the Cold War.

Isnt the concept of mutually assured destruction rendered moot when discussing rogue nations? I mean is it now singularly assured suicide? Apart from China and India, no country is big enough in size or population to go tit for tat with the US the way the USSR could. They couldnt destroy the entire US via nukes without being fully obliterated first. Even if we got hit and couldnt stop it, we would just destroy those countries before they even got to 20% of us. So yeah, a dirty bomb is a much bigger threat.

It has to be diesel because they do not have that kind of complicated nuclear technology available to build a nuclear sub. The Israelis or the Americans need to blow this thing out of the water. In any matter of war Iran launching any missles would be suicide.

I don't think that the Iranians have the ability to hit anything further than Israel, so they aren't a threat to the U.S. right now.

 

However, North Korea is developing a new missile that can reach Alaska and possibly the West Coast.

I don't think that the Iranians have the ability to hit anything further than Israel, so they aren't a threat to the U.S. right now.

 

However, North Korea is developing a new missile that can reach Alaska and possibly the West Coast.

 

 

They don't have to hit the continental US, just our fleet in the Persian Gulf.

I don't think that the Iranians have the ability to hit anything further than Israel, so they aren't a threat to the U.S. right now.

 

However, North Korea is developing a new missile that can reach Alaska and possibly the West Coast.

 

 

They don't have to hit the continental US, just our fleet in the Persian Gulf.

 

But why would they do that? They can't possibly have as many nukes as the US, fear of retaliation should keep them from striking anything belonging to the US. It's more likely they use those nukes for other targets.

my guess is that it could be a Kilo class submarine, not sure if they could build there own kilo though.

I don't think that the Iranians have the ability to hit anything further than Israel, so they aren't a threat to the U.S. right now.

 

However, North Korea is developing a new missile that can reach Alaska and possibly the West Coast.

 

 

They don't have to hit the continental US, just our fleet in the Persian Gulf.

 

But why would they do that? They can't possibly have as many nukes as the US, fear of retaliation should keep them from striking anything belonging to the US. It's more likely they use those nukes for other targets.

We have played ourselves into a position where Iran has us by the short & curlies.

 

Iran has a military of 800,000 and long range missiles that can reach Israel and most analyst believe Europe. Russia has been admitting Iranians to its missile training labs for years. Iran also has the military capability, and have threatened to, sink ships in the the Strait of Hormuz. This would effectively cut off virtually all of the Middle East oil supply, and also leave the US with no allies in the region (or much of the world), as we would be seen as the instigators.

 

Also, an attack could inflame Shiites througout the region. Shiites run Iran and Iraq, and have a huge influence in Saudi Arabia. A Shiite uprising in Iraq would put all of our troops their in much greater danger than they've ever faced. Hezbollah is a ally of Iran, and would further act to destabalize the region.

 

But it's not the military threat that is the cause for concern.

 

Russian and China both arm Iran, and both have been increasing friendly allies of Iran. In January, after selling Iran $700 million worth of missles, Russia also agreed to guard Iran's nuclear facilities. China will not just sit and watch us attack Iran. Also, with our deficits having us in a perilous economic position, we cannot either afford a war, nor afford to have China and Russia further dump their suppliies of US$. Either on of those countries, all by itself, could act to destroy us in 24 hours without ever firing a shot.

 

While the US media, and what seems like most of the US population, suffer from Alzheimers, the rest of the world does not. North Korea poses a much greater nuclear threat, but is ignored as it has little influence over the value of the US$, and is not an economic threat. Iran does have such influence, and will be using it in their new oil bourse, knowing that our debt has us in a position where we cannot stop them. To get into a war with Iran will likely only more rapidly bring about the demise of the US$, the protection of which would be the reason for going to war in the first place.

I don't think that the Iranians have the ability to hit anything further than Israel, so they aren't a threat to the U.S. right now.

 

However, North Korea is developing a new missile that can reach Alaska and possibly the West Coast.

 

 

They don't have to hit the continental US, just our fleet in the Persian Gulf.

 

But why would they do that? They can't possibly have as many nukes as the US, fear of retaliation should keep them from striking anything belonging to the US. It's more likely they use those nukes for other targets.

We have played ourselves into a position where Iran has us by the short & curlies.

 

Iran has a military of 800,000 and long range missiles that can reach Israel and most analyst believe Europe. Russia has been admitting Iranians to its missile training labs for years. Iran also has the military capability, and have threatened to, sink ships in the the Strait of Hormuz. This would effectively cut off virtually all of the Middle East oil supply, and also leave the US with no allies in the region (or much of the world), as we would be seen as the instigators.

 

Also, an attack could inflame Shiites througout the region. Shiites run Iran and Iraq, and have a huge influence in Saudi Arabia. A Shiite uprising in Iraq would put all of our troops their in much greater danger than they've ever faced. Hezbollah is a ally of Iran, and would further act to destabalize the region.

 

But it's not the military threat that is the cause for concern.

 

Russian and China both arm Iran, and both have been increasing friendly allies of Iran. In January, after selling Iran $700 million worth of missles, Russia also agreed to guard Iran's nuclear facilities. China will not just sit and watch us attack Iran. Also, with our deficits having us in a perilous economic position, we cannot either afford a war, nor afford to have China and Russia further dump their suppliies of US$. Either on of those countries, all by itself, could act to destroy us in 24 hours without ever firing a shot.

 

While the US media, and what seems like most of the US population, suffer from Alzheimers, the rest of the world does not. North Korea poses a much greater nuclear threat, but is ignored as it has little influence over the value of the US$, and is not an economic threat. Iran does have such influence, and will be using it in their new oil bourse, knowing that our debt has us in a position where we cannot stop them. To get into a war with Iran will likely only more rapidly bring about the demise of the US$, the protection of which would be the reason for going to war in the first place.

 

As of this current time Iran is much more of threat than North Korea. North Korea has less then 20 bombs (reportedly), but North Korea is in a pin because they really can't fire them anywhere. If North Korea fires a Nuke at South Korea then they would all be killed because of the consant northerly wind flow in that region, and If they Nuke China then God help them, they could strike Japan; but Japan has a strong army and is a U.S. alie.

 

Iran however is a much greater threat. Iran is a country that is supporting and has supported terrorist attacks on Americans for decades. They supported the 1998 Embasy bombings, the 2000 USS Cole bombing, and reportedly 9|11, and is currently sponsering uprisings in Iraq. The other problem is that the Iranian govenment could be overthrown at any time by terrorists, such as the Taliban or al-Qaeda, which would leave the Nuke in the hands of terrorists. As General Richard Myers once said, "Countries will never use Nuclear weapons because they now of the risk and the tragedy, but terrorists do not care and will kill anyone which do not beleive in their views." On the part of Russia and China, both countries sponsered the resolution to the U.N. Security Counsel on Iran. The size of the Iranian military means nothing. Iraq had a bigger military then us, and we topppled them, Germany in WWII had a better military then us, we won, the Soviets had a bigger military then us and we still won. The U.S. Military is the best in the world for a reason, they always get the job done and never back down.

 

Lets hypothetically say that Iran has 1 bomb. Now lets say that Israel sends in F-16's and F-18's to take out the Nuclear facilities in Iran, like the 1981 reactor bombing in Iraq. If Iran fires a missle at Israel then it would be an act of war, which would then get the coalition invloved. Now lets say that Iran fires a nuclear missle at Israel, that would then be suicide, because Israel has somewhere between 200 and 300 nukes and is not afraid to use them, and has said publicly it was prepared to use them in the Yom Kippur War in 1973. Before CNN broke the news that their was a nuclear explosion in Israel, Iran would be a heap of radioactive wasteland for thounsands of years.

 

Now on the Issue of the sub. It must be a diesel sub, because Iran does have the nuclear technology, that we now of, to build a nuclear sub. Not to mention, I googled the cost of Nuclear submarine in the cold war for the U.S., the price of a U.S. nuclear submarine in the early 80's was around the price of B-2 bomber at $2 billion, you probably have to double that to get close to todays price. I don't think Iran has that kind of money to spend on a sub. And if it is a diesel sub it will be like target practice for the U.S. Sub that has to take it out.