By sitting on their hands, the Marlins also run the risk of not turning as much of a profit as they could've packing the seats with fans coming to see Miguel knock one out of the park, not to mention building a perennial contender and the other players they may have to jettison by refusing to budge on their policy of yearly contracts.

 

The team has been competitive. Miggy has been here since '03 "knocking them out of the park." Where are these fans you speak of that are packing the seats now? They were there when the BoSox came to town. And they were there the final week end when the Phillies were here and in the hunt til the final day. Other than that they weren't packing the seats. And I don't believe they would magically pack the seats just because Miggy is signed long term. He's here now and we can't get an average of 15K into the place.

 

No magic need be involved. It is a trust thing. A novel concept, I know. But when the Marlins had the 2005 firesale they made an implicit and explicit promise to the fans that refused to abandon the team that Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis would be the cornerstones of this franchise. The Marlins could have avoided losing a number of fans in the wake of the firesale and restored some trust by signing both to long term contracts before the 2006 season. But there is no need to wallow in the past. Move forward, make an attempt to sign at least Miguel to a long term contract before it becomes too expensive to even consider. Negotiate a contract now, and the Marlins can save some money on his remaining arby years and keep him beyond 2009. Much more money could have been saved if this had been done in years past, but it is not necessarily already a lost cause. You don't just let possibly the greatest player of his generation walk without attempting to sign him to a long term contract. It is makes bad baseball sense.

 

 

"A trust thing." Interesting concept that works both ways. Shows a short memory. Or a selective one. The Marlins have signed players to long term contracts in the past. Castillo and Lowell pop right into my head. And they were fan favorites. Plus signed other players long term. Delgado ring a bell? There was Miggy on those teams bashing the ball and Willis with that strange wind up. And where were the fans packing the stands for a competitive team that was showing stability? Not at the ball park. Your argument would only hold water if the fans had been at the games and not keeping us near the bottom of the attendance stats and then after the sale had stayed away. Not the way it happened and no amount of saying things will be different just because we have a new fan favorite duo will change that.

The Marlins sign players to one year contracts until they can become FAs. That's the way they have always done it under every ownership group. Miggy will most likely be gone regardless of what is offered to him from the Marlins. SFX will let him know to not sign long term with us. To do so would hurt him in the long run because he will become the next highest paid player in MLB history once he hits the FA market. And the $$$ he will bring into that group from his ad compaigns in a larger, more visible market will most likely equal or exceed his salary. Miggy being in another uniform in '09 or '10 will be the fault of all parties involved, including the lackadaisical support of the South Florida fan base. Complain all you want about it but be sure to point fingers and claim blame where it is due.

 

I'm not here to get dragged down into another discussion on the past firesales. Been there, done that, don't feel like doing it again right now. But I will say a couple of things. First, you seem to have a very selective view on the long term contracts the Marlins have signed. How did the Marlins treat players they signed to long term contracts? I think it is an open question as to whether they entered into some of the more recent ones in good faith, especially the Delgado deal with how it was structured and his subsequent boot out of South Florida after one season. Then after writing about the Delgado, Castillo and Lowell multiyear contracts you flat out state the Marlins have always been about one-year contracts being the way it has always been. Which is it?

 

But that is the past and right now I'm talking about this offseason and the future. You think Miguel will most likely be gone regardless of what is offered to him by the Marlins. That may be true. But we will know if the Marlins never try. SFX may advise him to wait, they may not. We still have him tied up in arbitration for the 2008 and 2009 seasons and he is still only 23 years old. It isn't like the market would sour for Cabrera if he were to sign say a 4 year contract with the Marlins. Under that type of deal, by the end of his contract after the 2011 season he would be 27 years old with the very real chance of having established himself as being the best player in baseball. If the Marlins let Cabrera walk after the 2009 season without making an attempt to sign him to a multiyear deal, or worse, trading him, will you be satisfied?

 

As far as the crying poormouth and blaming the fans, the Marlins, the media and anyone else lost the right to do that ever again as long as this ownership group remains after they decided to go into a second straight season with the lowest payroll in baseball while pocketing more money than they spend on the team on the field before a single ticket is sold.

How did the Marlins treat players they signed to long term contracts? I think it is an open question as to whether they entered into some of the more recent ones in good faith.

....

You think Miguel will most likely be gone regardless of what is offered to him by the Marlins. That may be true. But we will know if the Marlins never try. SFX may advise him to wait, they may not.

If you explore the treatment of Delgado and Castillo beyond the questions that relate to their intent, you will discover why they couldn't. Nothing since then would suggest they can enter into a good faith commitment with Cabrera, or any one else.

 

[As far as the crying poormouth and blaming the fans, the Marlins, the media and anyone else lost the right to do that ever again as long as this ownership group remains after they decided to go into a second straight season with the lowest payroll in baseball while pocketing more money than they spend on the team on the field before a single ticket is sold.

I don't think any one's crying or blaming any one. The protections and risks people take are based on incentives, or to stated otherwise, the consideration of the actions of others. Fans are doing it, citing the actions of the team and its owners. Government officials are doing it, citing the commitment of the owners, fan interest and potential for economic development. The team is doing it. Every one's doing it. And I think that's BroncoBob's point. While some would like to vilify ownership or Cabrera or his agents, they ignore that it won't be one of those parties that results in a loss of Cabrera to another team, it will be every one including fans.

How did the Marlins treat players they signed to long term contracts? I think it is an open question as to whether they entered into some of the more recent ones in good faith.

....

You think Miguel will most likely be gone regardless of what is offered to him by the Marlins. That may be true. But we will know if the Marlins never try. SFX may advise him to wait, they may not.

If you explore the treatment of Delgado and Castillo beyond the questions that relate to their intent, you will discover why they couldn't. Nothing since then would suggest they can enter into a good faith commitment with Cabrera, or any one else.

 

The remainder of their payroll would suggest they could enter into a good faith commitment with Cabrera. Beyond that should take the lessons learned from how they handled Cabrera to heart when considering signing some of last years rookies to contracts that cover their arbitration years and beyond if they want to keep them beyond those arbitration years.

 

You can argue, and have argued, that with the stadium situation being what it is that the Marlins cannot enter into these types of agreements. I would argue that having to dump Cabrera or let him walk around the time that new stadium opens would be a terrible move on the Marlins part if they are interested in drawing a substantial number of new/old fans to a new stadium. If no stadium deal is reached and the Marlins are still forced to play in DS after their lease is up, all bets are off anyways.

 

However, even without a stadium deal in place the Marlins would still stand to profit in 2008 and 2009 by signing Cabrera to a multiyear deal (and save some money they would have otherwise had to give him in arbitration). Also, it could help garner local support, from fans and politicians, and put more momentum into the effort to get a stadium deal finalized. That is admittedly a stretch, but I think it is definitely within the realm of possibility.

 

Some type of good faith effort/sacrifice like this has to be made on the Marlins part after all of the ill-advised moves they have made in the past constructing payroll, the extreme build up/tear down cycles and how they've dealt with the community, and this would seem to be the ideal move for the Marlins to make.

You should amend to the beginning of your first sentence the words "under normal circumstances", as by either necessity or greed, the Marlins are not operating in such a way that would allow for such agreements to be negotiated in good faith.

 

And I would argue that it is the new stadium and new revenues that will allow Cabrera to be kept. That he would tossed aside at such a particular time and under circumstances that would allow them to negotiate such a contract, would stretch all reason not to mention the previous actions of this ownership. And I would appreciate it if you would not throw all reason out the window to support your claims against the owners or their treatment of Cabrera. I know this and similar issues invoke many emotional responses, but we need not inflame them to prove our points.

 

While I agree with the arguments in signing Cabrera long-term and the Marlins' potential to gain in SOME regards from such an agreement, what many of these arguments ignore (ALMOST exclusively I might add) is that the Marlins' situation does not allow them to offer such an agreement in good faith. With their future uncertain, they must hold on all rights to let him go should it become necessary. Whether that comes in the form of trading him for prospects to maintain respectability and promise of a winning club in a new stadium or new market. Or if it comes in keeping ties between Cabrera and the Marlins open enough for the Marlins to justify losing Cabrera to free agency (granted, a difficult concept for those who believe the Marlins even taking him to arbitration is a crime to accept). This issues would play an influence in the Marlins' negotiations with Cabrera, and likewise Cabrera and his agent's negotiations with the Marlins (as they also stand to benefit from the open arrangement), as to not allow for contract negotiations to be approached in good faith (by either party) nor to mutual benefit of both parties to prosper as well protect themselves from the deal. The only people who would stand to benefit, at least in the short term, are fans who wish to set aside their concerns of Cabrera's status and ignore the reality of the situation.

he's gone anyway....with Samson saying the payroll will stay low until the stadium opens ( which is the opposite of what they said last year)...by the time 2011 rolls around it will take probably 25-30 mill just to keep Cabrera and that will NOT happen....wth this group.....

Those who think that having a new stadium will magically make Cabrera a Marlin for life are deluding themselves. Lets say a stadium deal is finalized and the Marlins wait until the 2009 offseason to sign Cabrera to a long term contract. After being strung along every year by the Marlins, signing yearly contracts, what makes you think that Cabrera will necessarily even want to sign a multiyear deal with the club. Forgetting that, what makes you think he wouldn't want to enter the free agent market where he could stand by that time to possibly surpass Alex Rodriguez's contract?

 

By the way, I would appreciate it if you would quote the section where I got "emotional" and threw "all reason out the window to support your claims against the owners or their treatment of Cabrera."

 

While you keep falling back on the old future is uncertain argument, you ignore the fact the Marlins financial situation is more than stable due to revenue sharing, media/broadcasting revenues, merchandising, plus the money they are being paid this year by MLB with profits made from the sale of the Nationals to Lerner before they even sell a ticket. A multiyear deal with Cabrera need not necessarily include a no trade clause either, so I don't think that argument is valid. The Marlins could still have outs if they signed a multiyear deal now, but by waiting until 2009 they will almost certainly be priced out of the Cabrera sweepstakes.

 

Taking players to arbitration is not a crime. But certain players, and definitely players of Cabrera's caliber, should not if the organization wants to save money in the long run and keep them beyond their arbitration years. The Marlins have only themselves to thank now for raising the bar for first year arbitration salaries, and this effects them more than any other team due to their SOP and the sheer number of talented players slated to become arby eligible in 2009-2010.

I didn't suggest that with a new stadium, Cabrera will be re-signed. I said that the suggestion that Cabrera will be let go for financial reasons in spite of the prospective revenues of a new stadium flies in the face of reason and mounts to unneccessary fear mongering.

 

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, but I suggest you open your mind to what the Marlins situation is and the nature of negotiations between the Marlins and Cabrera as they are not limited to financial concerns.

I didn't suggest that with a new stadium, Cabrera will be re-signed. I said that the suggestion that Cabrera will be let go for financial reasons in spite of the prospective revenues of a new stadium flies in the face of reason and mounts to unneccessary fear mongering.

 

I'll respond to the rest of your post later.

 

I never wrote that the Marlins would let Cabrera go in spite of prospective revenues from a new stadium. That is you misinterpreting what I wrote. What I wrote and have been writing is that if the Marlins wait to attempt to sign Cabrera to a long term contract he will probably test the free agent market, that they could be priced out (by big market teams) and there is a chance that Cabrera will not even consider signing a multiyear deal with the club after being strung out by them with yearly contracts from 2007-2009. And of course the fact it would be a crime to either trade or let Cabrera walk without attempting to sign him to a long term contract. You don't let a generational player like Miguel just go without trying to keep him, or worse trade him, unless you want to be lumped in the annals of baseball history with the likes of Harry Frazee.

I guess I was confused by the words "having to dump Cabrera around the time that new stadium opens." To me, the words "to have to" suggest the Marlins would be forced to, not by the demands of Cabrera and his agents or the lure of free agency, but their own limitations. But with a new stadium opening, the limitations would not be as present in the past.

Cabrera knows that once he becomes a free agent he will be able to command a contract similar to A Rod's. I don't think he will be signing a long term contract with the Marlins without asking for more than the Marlins are willing to pay. I don't think the Marlins are willing to pay God himself that kind of money.

 

It is my opinion that we will have Miguel through the 2008 season, which by the way, may be the season where the Marlins go deep into the playoffs and who knows what can happen.

 

After the 2008 season, the best move the team can make is to trade Cabrera for 2 or 3 great prospects and take it from there. You can't wait until mid season of 2009 to trade him and expect to get a lot in return. This way the receiving team ( Yankees, Rex Sox, or whatever) will at least have him for one cheap (or relatively cheap) season with a chance to sign him to a long term ridiculously expensive contract.

 

The same may apply for Dontrelle.

 

By 2011 hopefully we will have our new stadium, our payroll will be in the average range, we will have a few stars of our own (Uggla, Ramirez, Johnson, Olsen, Sanchez, Nolasco, Hermida, Jacobs, Tank, etc ) and we will probably have added a few moderately priced free agents that could help us be competitive year after year.

 

I can live with this scenario.