Jump to content


Ohio: 200k "mismatched" Voters


Out of the Past
 Share

Recommended Posts

The fraud in this election just is rampant.. about 1 in 3 new voter looks funny.

 

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/31101144.html

 

Ohio elections chief appeals court ruling

By Associated Press

 

POSTED: 08:58 a.m. EDT, Oct 16, 2008

 

COLUMBUS: Ohio's top elections chief has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene in a dispute over whether the state is required to do more to help counties verify voter eligibility, a spokesman for her office said Thursday.

 

Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat, filed an appeal the high court late Wednesday, said spokesman Jeff Ortega.

 

On Tuesday, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati sided with the Ohio Republican Party and ordered Brunner to set up a system that provides names of newly registered voters whose driver's license numbers or Social Security numbers don't match records in other government databases.

 

The GOP contends the information for counties will help prevent fraud.

 

At least 200,000 newly registered voters have mismatched data, according to an initial review by Brunner's office.

 

Brunner's office said Wednesday that she would comply with the lower court's ruling. Ortega said the office would release a statement later Thursday on why she chose to file an appeal.

 

Brunner has called the issue a veiled attempt at disenfranchising voters and said other checks exist to help determine eligibility.

 

Ohio Republicans issued a statement calling the situation a shameful mess and criticized her for initially saying she would comply with the earlier court ruling.

 

About 666,000 Ohioans have registered to vote since January, with many doing so before the contested Democratic presidential primary election between Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton in March.

 

COLUMBUS: Ohio's top elections chief has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene in a dispute over whether the state is required to do more to help counties verify voter eligibility, a spokesman for her office said Thursday.

 

Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat, filed an appeal the high court late Wednesday, said spokesman Jeff Ortega.

 

On Tuesday, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati sided with the Ohio Republican Party and ordered Brunner to set up a system that provides names of newly registered voters whose driver's license numbers or Social Security numbers don't match records in other government databases.

 

The GOP contends the information for counties will help prevent fraud.

 

At least 200,000 newly registered voters have mismatched data, according to an initial review by Brunner's office.

 

Brunner's office said Wednesday that she would comply with the lower court's ruling. Ortega said the office would release a statement later Thursday on why she chose to file an appeal.

 

Brunner has called the issue a veiled attempt at disenfranchising voters and said other checks exist to help determine eligibility.

 

Ohio Republicans issued a statement calling the situation a shameful mess and criticized her for initially saying she would comply with the earlier court ruling.

 

About 666,000 Ohioans have registered to vote since January, with many doing so before the contested Democratic presidential primary election between Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton in March.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


There is no voting fraud unless they vote.

 

The mismatched records could indicate people moving and not updating their address in their driver's license (I did this not too long ago - are you going to accuse me of fraud?) or simply typos (if I put myself down as John Sidney McCain on legal documents and I registered as John McCain that would be a mismatch because John McCain can be John A. McCain or John D. McCain or John John McCain). That doesn't amount to fraud.

 

Stop making a big deal out of nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Registration fraud is fraud and you shouldn't blow-it off as if it's unimportant just because not every single fraudulent registrant will turn into a fraudulent vote. Also, by flooding the system with fraudulent applications you overwhelm election officials and prevent them from cleaning up otherwise illegal voters. In Florida, for example, we have over 100,000 felons that should be removed from the voting rolls but were not removed due to lack of resources. If we have a close election, say McCain up by 0.25%, the felons that remained in the rolls would likely turn the election in Obama's favor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Registration fraud is fraud and you shouldn't blow-it off as if it's unimportant just because not every single fraudulent registrant will turn into a fraudulent vote. Also, by flooding the system with fraudulent applications you overwhelm election officials and prevent them from cleaning up otherwise illegal voters. In Florida, for example, we have over 100,000 felons that should be removed from the voting rolls but were not removed due to lack of resources. If we have a close election, say McCain up by 0.25%, the felons that remained in the rolls would likely turn the election in Obama's favor.

 

What are the elements of fraud?

 

(1) Defendant made a false statement regarding a material fact;

 

 

(2) Defendant knew or should have known the representation was false;

 

 

(3) Defendant intended that the representation induce plaintiff to act on it; and

 

 

(4) Plaintiff suffered damages in justifiable reliance on the representation.

 

 

Unless your little story there can show that these people intentionally misrepresented something here, your claims are meritless. It's not enough to simply turn in something that is incorrect. You can't accuse me of fraud if I turned in a voter registration form that has my new address that doesn't match the records because I haven't changed my address on my driver's license or because I forgot to include my middle name or middle initial. That's not fraud. That's a mistake. Don't confuse the two.

 

Plus, I hope you are aware of this, but felons can vote in the state of Florida. That's a new law.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no voting fraud unless they vote.

 

The mismatched records could indicate people moving and not updating their address in their driver's license (I did this not too long ago - are you going to accuse me of fraud?) or simply typos (if I put myself down as John Sidney McCain on legal documents and I registered as John McCain that would be a mismatch because John McCain can be John A. McCain or John D. McCain or John John McCain). That doesn't amount to fraud.

 

Stop making a big deal out of nothing.

 

Prin, you forgot one big mismatch on the voter rolls: JOE THE PLUMBER!!! One database has his surname starting Wo-, another has it starting Wu-. By the pure technical standpoint the Republicans are trying to stand by, Joe the Plumber would be purged from the voter rolls! Oy, talk about irony!

 

EDIT: I want to include the link from Politico: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/100...he_plumber.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Registration fraud is fraud and you shouldn't blow-it off as if it's unimportant just because not every single fraudulent registrant will turn into a fraudulent vote. Also, by flooding the system with fraudulent applications you overwhelm election officials and prevent them from cleaning up otherwise illegal voters. In Florida, for example, we have over 100,000 felons that should be removed from the voting rolls but were not removed due to lack of resources. If we have a close election, say McCain up by 0.25%, the felons that remained in the rolls would likely turn the election in Obama's favor.

 

What are the elements of fraud?

 

(1) Defendant made a false statement regarding a material fact;

 

 

(2) Defendant knew or should have known the representation was false;

 

 

(3) Defendant intended that the representation induce plaintiff to act on it; and

 

 

(4) Plaintiff suffered damages in justifiable reliance on the representation.

 

 

Unless your little story there can show that these people intentionally misrepresented something here, your claims are meritless. It's not enough to simply turn in something that is incorrect. You can't accuse me of fraud if I turned in a voter registration form that has my new address that doesn't match the records because I haven't changed my address on my driver's license or because I forgot to include my middle name or middle initial. That's not fraud. That's a mistake. Don't confuse the two.

 

Plus, I hope you are aware of this, but felons can vote in the state of Florida. That's a new law.

 

It's agaisnt the law to provide false information in voter registration forms. I'm sure some in the 200k in Ohio were honest mistakes but I'm sure many of them were not and those should be prosecuted.

 

Regarding the new felon law in Florida, some felons can vote and some felons cannot vote.. the rights were only restored to certain felons, not to all felons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Registration fraud is fraud and you shouldn't blow-it off as if it's unimportant just because not every single fraudulent registrant will turn into a fraudulent vote. Also, by flooding the system with fraudulent applications you overwhelm election officials and prevent them from cleaning up otherwise illegal voters. In Florida, for example, we have over 100,000 felons that should be removed from the voting rolls but were not removed due to lack of resources. If we have a close election, say McCain up by 0.25%, the felons that remained in the rolls would likely turn the election in Obama's favor.

 

What are the elements of fraud?

 

(1) Defendant made a false statement regarding a material fact;

 

 

(2) Defendant knew or should have known the representation was false;

 

 

(3) Defendant intended that the representation induce plaintiff to act on it; and

 

 

(4) Plaintiff suffered damages in justifiable reliance on the representation.

 

 

Unless your little story there can show that these people intentionally misrepresented something here, your claims are meritless. It's not enough to simply turn in something that is incorrect. You can't accuse me of fraud if I turned in a voter registration form that has my new address that doesn't match the records because I haven't changed my address on my driver's license or because I forgot to include my middle name or middle initial. That's not fraud. That's a mistake. Don't confuse the two.

 

Plus, I hope you are aware of this, but felons can vote in the state of Florida. That's a new law.

 

It's agaisnt the law to provide false information in voter registration forms. I'm sure some in the 200k in Ohio were honest mistakes but I'm sure many of them were not and those should be prosecuted.

 

Regarding the new felon law in Florida, some felons can vote and some felons cannot vote.. the rights were only restored to certain felons, not to all felons.

 

How do you define false? Was it against the law for me to provide my new address when I hadn't changed my address on my driver's license? Was it against the law to not include my middle name?

 

These "mismatches" the article and you speak of would include the scenarios I just outlined.

 

Are you going to report me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Registration fraud is fraud and you shouldn't blow-it off as if it's unimportant just because not every single fraudulent registrant will turn into a fraudulent vote. Also, by flooding the system with fraudulent applications you overwhelm election officials and prevent them from cleaning up otherwise illegal voters. In Florida, for example, we have over 100,000 felons that should be removed from the voting rolls but were not removed due to lack of resources. If we have a close election, say McCain up by 0.25%, the felons that remained in the rolls would likely turn the election in Obama's favor.

 

What are the elements of fraud?

 

(1) Defendant made a false statement regarding a material fact;

 

 

(2) Defendant knew or should have known the representation was false;

 

 

(3) Defendant intended that the representation induce plaintiff to act on it; and

 

 

(4) Plaintiff suffered damages in justifiable reliance on the representation.

 

 

Unless your little story there can show that these people intentionally misrepresented something here, your claims are meritless. It's not enough to simply turn in something that is incorrect. You can't accuse me of fraud if I turned in a voter registration form that has my new address that doesn't match the records because I haven't changed my address on my driver's license or because I forgot to include my middle name or middle initial. That's not fraud. That's a mistake. Don't confuse the two.

 

Plus, I hope you are aware of this, but felons can vote in the state of Florida. That's a new law.

 

It's agaisnt the law to provide false information in voter registration forms. I'm sure some in the 200k in Ohio were honest mistakes but I'm sure many of them were not and those should be prosecuted.

 

Regarding the new felon law in Florida, some felons can vote and some felons cannot vote.. the rights were only restored to certain felons, not to all felons.

 

How do you define false? Was it against the law for me to provide my new address when I hadn't changed my address on my driver's license? Was it against the law to not include my middle name?

 

These "mismatches" the article and you speak of would include the scenarios I just outlined.

 

Are you going to report me?

 

You're the lawyer so maybe you can report back on what the law defines as "false" as far as voter registration is concerned. Also, you might want to read up on the felon law passed by Crist as you don't seem to understand it given that you're under the impression rights were restored to all felons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Registration fraud is fraud and you shouldn't blow-it off as if it's unimportant just because not every single fraudulent registrant will turn into a fraudulent vote. Also, by flooding the system with fraudulent applications you overwhelm election officials and prevent them from cleaning up otherwise illegal voters. In Florida, for example, we have over 100,000 felons that should be removed from the voting rolls but were not removed due to lack of resources. If we have a close election, say McCain up by 0.25%, the felons that remained in the rolls would likely turn the election in Obama's favor.

 

What are the elements of fraud?

 

(1) Defendant made a false statement regarding a material fact;

 

 

(2) Defendant knew or should have known the representation was false;

 

 

(3) Defendant intended that the representation induce plaintiff to act on it; and

 

 

(4) Plaintiff suffered damages in justifiable reliance on the representation.

 

 

Unless your little story there can show that these people intentionally misrepresented something here, your claims are meritless. It's not enough to simply turn in something that is incorrect. You can't accuse me of fraud if I turned in a voter registration form that has my new address that doesn't match the records because I haven't changed my address on my driver's license or because I forgot to include my middle name or middle initial. That's not fraud. That's a mistake. Don't confuse the two.

 

Plus, I hope you are aware of this, but felons can vote in the state of Florida. That's a new law.

 

It's agaisnt the law to provide false information in voter registration forms. I'm sure some in the 200k in Ohio were honest mistakes but I'm sure many of them were not and those should be prosecuted.

 

Regarding the new felon law in Florida, some felons can vote and some felons cannot vote.. the rights were only restored to certain felons, not to all felons.

 

How do you define false? Was it against the law for me to provide my new address when I hadn't changed my address on my driver's license? Was it against the law to not include my middle name?

 

These "mismatches" the article and you speak of would include the scenarios I just outlined.

 

Are you going to report me?

 

You're the lawyer so maybe you can report back on what the law defines as "false" as far as voter registration is concerned. Also, you might want to read up on the felon law passed by Crist as you don't seem to understand it given that you're under the impression rights were restored to all felons.

 

The answer to your question is that to be able to convict someone of voter registration false you have to prove 1) the defendant knew he or she was submitting something that is false and 2) did so with the intention that whoever was reviewing the application would act upon that false information. Here, if you make a mistake in your application (such as the examples I gave), there is no fraud because 1) I did not know I was submitting something that was false, 2) did not intend to defraud them, and 3) I was, in fact, eligible to vote (a mismatch in information may just mean the system has not been updated, and not that the information on the voter registration false is wrong). As such a mismatch is insufficient to prove voter registration fraud. You have to show 1) knowledge and 2) intent. Generally, that's hard to prove.

 

I know that not all the felons can vote. They have to apply to restore their rights - certain felons are not eligible. But my understanding is that they can apply and get their rights restored if they're eligible.

 

I still don't get why felons who have served their time (whether that be in prison or on probation) shouldn't be allowed to vote. I fail to see any kind of logic there. I know many Republicans would like to exclude felons from voting because they don't want black people to vote in large numbers, but I think that's totally unfair.

 

And every single election this is what Republicans do: try to suppress the vote by claiming "fraud".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still don't get why felons who have served their time (whether that be in prison or on probation) shouldn't be allowed to vote. I fail to see any kind of logic there. I know many Republicans would like to exclude felons from voting because they don't want black people to vote in large numbers, but I think that's totally unfair.

I think you forget that until the past 10+ years Florida has being a state run by the Democrats and currently with the GOP controlling the governorship and both houses of congress felons have more voting rights tahtn they ever have had. Just compare felon voting rights now with what they had under Graham and the democratic congress. I don';t agree with restoring their rights but the factb is under GOP control their rights have being restored while the Democrats did not lift a finger to restore them during the decades they were in control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny story. My fiance registered to vote at her college. The guy gave her the voters registration info etc. He told her "just fill out your name and w/e. I'll fill out the rest." She noticed he was wearing an obama pin, so she was like nahhh thats ok I'll do the rest myself. She marked down republican for party affiliation. She gets her card later on and guess what? The guy switched her party affiliation to democrat. Typical...

I'm not surprised at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny story. My fiance registered to vote at her college. The guy gave her the voters registration info etc. He told her "just fill out your name and w/e. I'll fill out the rest." She noticed he was wearing an obama pin, so she was like nahhh thats ok I'll do the rest myself. She marked down republican for party affiliation. She gets her card later on and guess what? The guy switched her party affiliation to democrat. Typical...

 

When I went to vote in 2006 in Virginia, I had the following happen to me. I woke up real early to vote before work, right when the polls were going to open. So I was in a white shirt and basketball shorts. I also have brown colored skin. Well when I got to the front of the line, I provided all the ID that the Virginia elections people had said I would need. I even had the document itself. But the women there told me I also needed "federally issued ID." The guy next to her gave her a look, but before he said anything, I gave her my social security card, which I had. After looking at it closely, she let me vote. As I was leaving, I stopped for a few seconds. I noticed she was asking that of anyone else except people who were latino or latino looking.

 

If republicans care so much about electoral fraud, will they be sending poll watchers to white affluent neighborhoods? Of course not.

 

Electoral fraud is the ready made excuse in case they lose the election.

 

Republicans never lose anything. They are never responsible for things going wrong. Something else is always the root cause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...