Old Timer

4-0.....SIGH

The Braves showed us last year it's impossible to blow a 5+ game lead at any point in the season. This year the Braves, Nats and Phillies will be winning a ton of games. You cannot afford to start off 1-4 or 0-5. If they do, it will be extremely hard to overcome that. Its not one team you have to beat out, but 3.

Should we start betting on how long until Ozzie goes off on this team ?

3-0 and the hole gets deeper

We'll be in a HUGE hole if we start off the seaon 0-2. Mentally our team could be in a big hole.....JJ & Buherle defeated and then on to Philly with Nolasco, Zambrano and Sanchez pitching ? It's not inconcievable to be 0-5 or 1-4 by the time we roll into Houston. Season over after 5 games. In this division, it could be....

This is horrible, they look lost

We should be able to light up Champman if our guys are patient. The guy is wild as sh*t. Buck didn't read your post

We'll be in a HUGE hole if we start off the seaon 0-2. Mentally our team could be in a big hole.....JJ & Buherle defeated and then on to Philly with Nolasco, Zambrano and Sanchez pitching ? It's not inconcievable to be 0-5 or 1-4 by the time we roll into Houston.

Damn our offense hasn't shown up for the regular season yet It wasn't there in Spring Training either. No doubt about it, looks like we're in for a slow start to the season. Yeah. Which is disappointing but OK. 162 game season. Gotta pace ourselves as fans and not flip out. True, it is 162 games, but you don't want to bury yourself early. It also may be a chance to take advantage of Philly since they are without Howard & Utley. Their offense should be suffering too. Their pitching is so good, though ... Yep, and that's why we need to be able to take them now, when one of their elements is suffering. When they hit, they will be impossible to beat.

Damn our offense hasn't shown up for the regular season yet It wasn't there in Spring Training either. No doubt about it, looks like we're in for a slow start to the season. Yeah. Which is disappointing but OK. 162 game season. Gotta pace ourselves as fans and not flip out. True, it is 162 games, but you don't want to bury yourself early. It also may be a chance to take advantage of Philly since they are without Howard & Utley. Their offense should be suffering too. They scored one run today. That's one more than us so far today.....

Damn our offense hasn't shown up for the regular season yet It wasn't there in Spring Training either. No doubt about it, looks like we're in for a slow start to the season. Yeah. Which is disappointing but OK. 162 game season. Gotta pace ourselves as fans and not flip out. True, it is 162 games, but you don't want to bury yourself early. It also may be a chance to take advantage of Philly since they are without Howard & Utley. Their offense should be suffering too.

Trevon martin incident? What does that have to do with this? Unless you really feel its whites vs blacks. I don't care about the rest of what you said. The whole after Trevino martin thing gets to me. Treyvon Martin is from Miami (student at Miami Krop High School) and tensions are still high in Miami over that. It could have been a way of the Marlins reaching out to the Afro-American community is all I am saying.

Damn our offense hasn't shown up for the regular season yet It wasn't there in Spring Training either. No doubt about it, looks like we're in for a slow start to the season.

That said, I have said in other posts that it should have been FORMER MARLINS, and a nice gesture would have been to include those representing the Afro-American community, since they are a large part of the community. So you are basically giving preference to Lenny Harris over Conine, Hough/Santiago, Sheffield, etc.? Nobody takes issue with using former Marlins, but it's silly to think that it should be a black Marlin. There is no justification for it. It only makes sense in your head, because you think this "cause" is important. So what does Ali have to do with the "Hispanic Community" you claim they are trying to reach ? Nothing. My point was that if they were going to be going out of their way to appease a certain race, it would be the Hispanics. The Marlins made a decision (apparently) that race wasn't a factor. They were going for the name and some kind of Miami connection. If you actually read stories about MLB and that includes the Marlins the last time I checked, there is an emphasis on trying to reach out to the Afro-American community. The Youth Center in Los Angeles, and the Urban Baseball Classic (that is between historically Afro-American colleges and shown on MLB Network) are just two examples of MLB reaching out to the Afro-American community. That's great and all, but it has nothing to do with the Marlins, ballpark, or Little Havana. Therefore it's not appropriate for the first pitch. And I would like to add your snide remarks about me trying to promote an "agenda" were completely out of line, and the 1st volley between us. If you didn't have an agenda yourself, this thread would never have had this discussion. My post would have been more or less passed over without anyone else commenting on it. But it was YOU, with your own reasons who have caused this. I think you owe the moderators and admins on this board an apology for causing this rancor between us. It would not have been passed over. You said in a serious manner that Lenny Harris would have been a great choice for the first pitch. And then you keeping droning on and on about why it's absolutely necessary for the Marlins to go out of their way to cater to blacks in the oppening ceremony. It makes no sense. That's why I'm calling you and that's why others are calling you out. When you show a serious lack of good judgment, people are going to mention it. First of all IF YOU REREAD MY POSTS, I never INSISTED, just gave it as a suggestion in lieu of Ali, much as others have. I would be fine if it was Conine and no one else. He is after all known as "Mr Marlin". But it also would have been a better idea, THAN ALI, to have former Marlins players THAT ACTUALLY GREW UP IN MIAMI throw out the first pitch, and that if they had those 3 who are Afro-American, it would again be a good gesture to the Afro-American community, especially in light of the Trayvon Martin incident. I never once had said that is the only players they should have. And if they did that, NO ONE should have a problem with that. Its better than Ali. Conine is better than Ali, and almost anyone would have been a better idea, but trying to reach out to the Afro-American community would have been a good thing, for the reasons I have already stated in this thread. I have nothing more to respond to you.

As for Lenny Harris, he is a native of Miami, and he played on the 2003 Marlins. He and Dawson both are Miami natives and represent the Afro-American community here that DESPERATELY needs encouragement from MLB to foster kids into playing baseball. Why would you expect the Marlins to integrate your pet political crusade into the first pitch? There is no justifiable reason for the Marlins to cater to the African American community on this. There is no reason to be snide in your comments. This is not a political debate at all. Its about Miami and what would have been best for OUR community on opening night. Those from outside of South Florida should mostly sit back and just read. If you couldn't be there, or be involved stay out of the conversation. Then consider that a lost opportunity. There used to be more than a dozen baseball fields in the areas of Liberty City, South Miami, Overtown and Miami Gardens which are primarily Afro-American in their makeup. Now there are just 3. That is not giving those kids the same opportunities that Lenny Harris, Andre Dawson and Warren Cromartie had growing up here to learn & be exposed to baseball. Baseball in this community will need to have more than the Hispanic community involved to stay relevant. The Anglo-Caucasion community in Miami-Dade County is less than 10% of the population now, and that of the Afro-American is at around 20%. That is a large chunk of the population that doesn't have many places to nuture and grow the next generation of Afro-American players from the Miami area. That is baseball's loss. Oh, so I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the matter? Who's being snide in his remarks here? You are the one who has taken on this pet cause that nobody else seems to feel strongly about and for whatever reason thinks that it should be heavily integrated into the opening ceremonies of the new ballpark. You don't seem to consider that it has nothing to do with the Marlins, the ballpark, or the Hispanic demographic that the Marlins are openly and heavily catering to. You are completely alone in your belief that having someone like Lenny Harris throw out the first pitch would have been best for the Marlins and the Miami baseball community. This isn't saying that the Marlins' charities shouldn't reach out to blacks, but it's completely ridiculous and unjustifiable for you to regard this as something that needs to be featured so prominently in the opening of the new ballpark. You, as usual, don't read EVERYTHING and of course wish to always put your spin on what others are posting. You are notorious for it. That said, I have said in other posts that it should have been FORMER MARLINS, and a nice gesture would have been to include those representing the Afro-American community, since they are a large part of the community. So what does Ali have to do with the "Hispanic Community" you claim they are trying to reach ? They had an Afro-American there, to do it, and one that has very dubious connections at best to the Miami area. If you actually read stories about MLB and that includes the Marlins the last time I checked, there is an emphasis on trying to reach out to the Afro-American community. The Youth Center in Los Angeles, and the Urban Baseball Classic (that is between historically Afro-American colleges and shown on MLB Network) are just two examples of MLB reaching out to the Afro-American community. And I would like to add your snide remarks about me trying to promote an "agenda" were completely out of line, and the 1st volley between us. If you didn't have an agenda yourself, this thread would never have had this discussion. My post would have been more or less passed over without anyone else commenting on it. But it was YOU, with your own reasons who have caused this. I think you owe the moderators and admins on this board an apology for causing this rancor between us.

I can definitely argue that a guy who maybe 20% of the crowd (at best) has heard of would have been a worse selection than Ali. I think it would have been cool to an Orange Bowl legend out there. If you're going to have a UM affiliated person, I'd rather it have been Howard Schnellenberger than Jim Fraser. Really, nobody would have known who he is. Lenny Harris is a hysterical idea. Absolutely and tremendously hysterical. Jim Fraser ?!?!? At least get the man's name right. Its RON Fraser. Don't assume just because YOU haven't heard of him (it shows by getting his name wrong) there aren't THOUSANDS of Miami residents that know who he is and what he contributed to baseball not only at UM but by holding his baseball camps for 25 years with youth from all over the county, including those who couldn't pay for the camp (who were given tutition money by big UM donors so they could attend). He affected the lives (for the better) of thousands and thousands of boys AND girls who attended his camps every Summer. He absolutely would have been a better choice than Ali, for many, many reasons, that I haven't even stated in my posts. Honestly, after living in Miami for my first 19 years of existence, I hadn't heard of him either, but you are correct that just cause myself or doublebob hadn't that he isn't known. However, there's a lot of people that were there that were my age that probably don't know who he is either. Dwayne Johnson would have been huge. Went to UM, became one of the biggest names in WWF/E, a movie star that's well known ... could have been great as well with his Wrestlemania win the other day. Even The Rock would have been better, I agree. At least he played games in the Orange Bowl. But Loria had to go "de basier" this up.

I would have preferred former marlins or former big name baseball players. That is exactly what it should have been.

As for another option, Edgar Renteria and Craig Counsell together would have been nice. Didn't Edgar just retire? I know Craig did. That would have been GREAT, and add Conine who was in both 1997 & 2003, and another guy from 2003 and that's what it should have been. But just as I suspected he would, Loria screwed this once in a lifetime thing up.

I'm wondering about any analogies between this versus when Ted Williams came out on a cart, looking rather decrepit, at the All Star Game, which seemed go be universally received as a great moment. Ted Williams at least looked alive. Ali last night looked like he was dug up from the grave. That is what was so, so bad about this.

As for Lenny Harris, he is a native of Miami, and he played on the 2003 Marlins. He and Dawson both are Miami natives and represent the Afro-American community here that DESPERATELY needs encouragement from MLB to foster kids into playing baseball. Why would you expect the Marlins to integrate your pet political crusade into the first pitch? There is no justifiable reason for the Marlins to cater to the African American community on this. There is no reason to be snide in your comments. This is not a political debate at all. Its about Miami and what would have been best for OUR community on opening night. Those from outside of South Florida should mostly sit back and just read. If you couldn't be there, or be involved stay out of the conversation. Then consider that a lost opportunity. There used to be more than a dozen baseball fields in the areas of Liberty City, South Miami, Overtown and Miami Gardens which are primarily Afro-American in their makeup. Now there are just 3. That is not giving those kids the same opportunities that Lenny Harris, Andre Dawson and Warren Cromartie had growing up here to learn & be exposed to baseball. Baseball in this community will need to have more than the Hispanic community involved to stay relevant. The Anglo-Caucasion community in Miami-Dade County is less than 10% of the population now, and that of the Afro-American is at around 20%. That is a large chunk of the population that doesn't have many places to nuture and grow the next generation of Afro-American players from the Miami area. That is baseball's loss.

I can definitely argue that a guy who maybe 20% of the crowd (at best) has heard of would have been a worse selection than Ali. I think it would have been cool to an Orange Bowl legend out there. If you're going to have a UM affiliated person, I'd rather it have been Howard Schnellenberger than Jim Fraser. Really, nobody would have known who he is. Lenny Harris is a hysterical idea. Absolutely and tremendously hysterical. Jim Fraser ?!?!? At least get the man's name right. Its RON Fraser. Don't assume just because YOU haven't heard of him (it shows by getting his name wrong) there aren't THOUSANDS of Miami residents that know who he is and what he contributed to baseball not only at UM but by holding his baseball camps for 25 years with youth from all over the county, including those who couldn't pay for the camp (who were given tutition money by big UM donors so they could attend). He affected the lives (for the better) of thousands and thousands of boys AND girls who attended his camps every Summer. He absolutely would have been a better choice than Ali, for many, many reasons, that I haven't even stated in my posts.

LoMo replaced by Coghlan in today's lineup. Just being careful or is something up ? I am hoping that in a couple of weeks LoMo isn't shut down for surgery.

I mean, fine. But who is synonymous with baseball in Miami? Andre Dawson, Ron Fraser or Lenny Harris. I think it would have been a great gesture to the African-American community, had they let Dawson, Harris and CJ do a triple throw out 1st pitch. Especially in the wake of the Trayvon Martin scandal. Not a single one of those people would have been a good choice, IMO. Wait, what? Fraser and Harris I can understand, but clearly you are trolling me by saying Andre wouldn't have been a good choice. Ron Fraser has more connection to baseball in South Florida than just about anyone. He is a living legend of college baseball an still is known by the moniker of "The Wizard of College baseball". If not for his University of Miami baseball teams there would have been almost NO baseball above the High School level being played in Miami. There were wide gaps of no professional ball other than spring training by the Orioles. There had not always been a Florida State League team here, and it wasn't until the 1980's that FIU had a credible program (some would say they still don't) and Barry and Lynn Universities only play on the NAIA level. Fraser won more than a thousand games as the HC of the Canes, won two national Championships (1982 & 1985) and his teams made the NCAA tournament every year since 1973 til his retirement in 1992. By the way that's a streak that is still going on today - 39 years - the longest streak by any NCAA team in ANY NCAA sport, not just baseball. Fraser's innovative and commercial promotions brought record crowds (at the time Miami was always one of the highest attendance in college ball every year) out every year, and his teams were always more than competitive and many times played for a national championship in Omaha. He represents many of the good things about baseball in South Fla. Yes there is little to connect him to the Marlins, but he would have been better than Ali. You can't argue that. As for Lenny Harris, he is a native of Miami, and he played on the 2003 Marlins. He and Dawson both are Miami natives and represent the Afro-American community here that DESPERATELY needs encouragement from MLB to foster kids into playing baseball. I thought that MLB had promised to build a Community Youth program here like they have out in Los Angeles. What happened to that idea ? Just like a lot of things it got swept under the carpet, because it didn't make anyone money.....too bad people can't see the future and what might happen if they gave just a little bit back.

Right, this simply isn't worth it. Sorry I said anything. You win. OK. As I said, Ali was and is an anti-American jerk. I don't give a crap what his family thought about it, he and they are camera-whores, although one wonders why they would want to be. Perhaps it's become reflexive. Oh, you want Ali? OK, we'll provide him, just send the check to us and he'll be there, even if he's a doddering, half-dead old fool. At this point, he doesn't know if he's coming or going, but when he did, he was an unrepentant Islamist, and he has ever since been a total embarrassment to anyone who thought he was some sort of hero. He's anything but. Like I said, I despise him and everything he ever stood for. And again, I think Loria is not just an idiot, but an ass for even entertaining the horrible idea. OMFG...... Three Dots calling Loria an idiot. (looking around for the candid cameras)

My observation at the ballpark, and not on tv, was that the older crowd (vast majority) liked it. The younger crowd didn't know what to think because they weren't alive during his fighting years. I don't buy that. I never saw him fight, but still recognize him as one of the most legendary sports figures alive. I just don't enjoy people with severe Parkinson's being paraded across the field. I don't agree with parading him around either, but it was clear in my section that the older crowd enjoyed seeing him and exchanging stories while the younger crowd could simply say wow cool its the champ. That wasn't the reaction in my section. Most folks just kind of winced when we saw him shaking like that, and felt embarassed for him, and pitied him. I heard several people in the rows below and above me say this was horrible, but leave it up to Loria to do this kind of thing. One even said he hoped that now that the ballpark is done, that when Loria decides to sell he will pop the cork on some champagne. I know why Loria didn't want to throw out the 1st ball. No matter what some folks on this board want to think of him, and he does deserve applause for building the stadium, he is still one of the most hated figures in South Fla sports. Only Stephen Ross and his screwing up of the Dolphins has taken some of the heat off of Loria. People that don't live here, have no idea how much Loria is hated by the public.