October 30, 200422 yr when have i supported the buying of manure or the reconstruction of iraq in general.? if anything i've been saying lets get the hell out of there. no, it's really not forced labor, but it's pretty close to it and it is abusive. 604465[/snapback] So are you another of of those against a plan including tutoring for failing kids and for buying 250 tons of fertilzer for Iraqis? I posed that question to you and you didn't answer it so I had to assume there was a reason you were not answering it. If its so abusive and so appauling why are you not in Florida fighting this? If you feel so strongly about it go somewhere and fight about it. You live in Miami, so this "abuse" happens around you.
October 30, 200422 yr 1st of all, you did not post the question to me, you posted to tonyi. 2ndly, that's your problem as an american, i'm not one. i'm on temporary stay in this country.
October 30, 200422 yr perhaps i got it from here http://web.archive.org/web/20040210043828/...ues/natservice/ 604452[/snapback] As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service. I assume that is what you are reffering to. The mandatory service for high schoolers is 50 hours of community service. I don't see how that would take two years, you can do that in a week. And it is not forced, the kids don't need to go to public high schools, go read the thread we discussed this ad nausem. And the two years of service in the military for tuition is not forced ior mandatory it is just a plan for anyone who signs up for the armed forces will get 4 years of college tuition payed for. So are you another of of those against a plan including tutoring for failing kids and for buying 250 tons of fertilzer for Iraqis? There seem to be alot of you, no wonder America is in trouble. 604457[/snapback] you did not post the question to me, you posted to tonyi. 604470[/snapback] Is that not a response directly to your post? Yes or no? And if I am responding right to your post would that question not also be meant for you? Seriously. Some people....
October 30, 200422 yr i'm sorry, but there you are not asking me, you are accusing me. 2 totally different things.
October 30, 200422 yr i'm sorry, but there you are not asking me, you are accusing me. 2 totally different things. 604475[/snapback] No notice the question mark (?) at the end of the question. All you had to say was no I do not support that. But you didn't and just ignored the question and then said it was not posted to you. Was the question posed to you or not?
October 30, 200422 yr don't try to paint a different picture. you asked a rhetoric question which you yourself answered by saying "there seems to be a lot of you, no wonder america is in trouble".
October 30, 200422 yr don't try to paint a different picture. you asked a rhetoric question which you yourself answered by saying "there seems to be a lot of you, no wonder america is in trouble". 604479[/snapback] Was the question posed to you, yes or no? You said it was posed toward Tonyi, clearly it was posed to you.
October 30, 200422 yr don't try to paint a different picture. you asked a rhetoric question which you yourself answered by saying "there seems to be a lot of you, no wonder america is in trouble". 604479[/snapback] Was the question posed to you, yes or no? You said it was posed toward Tonyi, clearly it was posed to you. 604482[/snapback] no it was not, what was posted toward me was an acusation. stop being so stupid.
October 30, 200422 yr You say you are against Kerry's 100 day plan to improve america, and more direct his service for high schoolers plan. Part of that plan is college kids toutoring kids in highschool and make scholarship money for it. I am now and always have been against forced uncompensated child labor. I am not against compensated labor. Part of the "plan" is bogus, part of it isn't. I don't believe I ever said I was against the who thing lock stock and barrel..,even a broken clock is right twice a day... 604487[/snapback] Okay Tony then answer this simple question. Do you support Kery's 100 day plan? Yes or no?
October 30, 200422 yr don't try to paint a different picture. you asked a rhetoric question which you yourself answered by saying "there seems to be a lot of you, no wonder america is in trouble". 604479[/snapback] Was the question posed to you, yes or no? You said it was posed toward Tonyi, clearly it was posed to you. 604482[/snapback] no it was not, what was posted toward me was an acusation. stop being so stupid. 604489[/snapback] It went from a rhetoric question to an accusation? Make up your mind already! Talk about a flip flopper. "Its a rhetoric question" "It an accusation" What's next, "It's a declaritive statement"?
October 30, 200422 yr dealing with a**holes is deffinitely anoying. specially those who think of themselves as smart yet can't follow the logic of a 5th grade level conversation.
October 30, 200422 yr What part of "Part of the "plan" is bogus, part of it isn't." don't you understand? Parts I support with enthusiasm, parts I think are bogus. Not being a dem party droid, I don't feel compelled to think everything Kerry mouths is necessarily the right thing. 604497[/snapback] Make believe you are a senator, or a congress man Tony. You are making this very simple question difficult. This plan is proposed to you. Do you vote yes on it? Do you vote no on it? Or do you abstain from voting?
October 30, 200422 yr dealing with a**holes is deffinitely anoying. specially those who think of themselves as smart yet can't follow the logic of a 5th grade level conversation. 604499[/snapback] I know. I hate that too. When you pose a question to them in response to something they said and at first they ignore it. Then later on they say it was not posed to them even though it clearly was. And then they flip flop from calling it a question to calling it an accusation.
October 30, 200422 yr What part of "Part of the "plan" is bogus, part of it isn't." don't you understand? Parts I support with enthusiasm, parts I think are bogus. Not being a dem party droid, I don't feel compelled to think everything Kerry mouths is necessarily the right thing. 604497[/snapback] Make believe you are a senator, or a congress man Tony. You are making this very simple question difficult. This plan is proposed to you. Do you vote yes on it? Do you vote no on it? Or do you abstain from voting? 604500[/snapback] I'd split it into different bills and cause the pieces to be voted on by individual merit so the bogus parts can fail without dragging down the good parts. This happens all the time. 604503[/snapback] It is not your bill to split it is Kerry's. So Tony do you support the plan or not? Because based upon what I see in the previous thread you do not, you just categorically bash the plan. You can not have it both ways. You either support the plan or you do not, you can not kinda, maybe, support the plan. You still support the plan which includes buying 250 tons of fertilizer for Iraq. So do you support a plan that includes tutoring for kids or not?
October 30, 200422 yr Presidents don't submit bills in congress. 604509[/snapback] I was trying to get you to think outside of the box since you have a hard time answering the question point blank. But since you still will not answer if you support the plan I can say this. Tonyi: A man who is not sure if he supports a plan which includes tutoring kids, but calls plans which pays for 250 tons of fertilizer as "good news".
October 30, 200422 yr Why should I listen to the rantings of someone who obviously doesn't understand some of the most fundamental mechanisms of how our government works? 604514[/snapback] I know how our governemnt works just fine. The question is why would anyone listen to someone who does not know if he supports a simple education plan or not. Are you that unopionated Tony? Yet you support a plan which pays for 250 tons of fertilizer for another country easily.
October 30, 200422 yr Yet you support a plan which pays for 250 tons of fertilizer for another country easily. Is Kerry going to slash foreign aid budgets to zero and spend all that money on domestic US programs? That would certainly be a good way to win influence around the world...NOT. 604519[/snapback] Does he list in any of his plans that he is ready to pay for 250 tons of fertilizer for Iraq?
October 30, 200422 yr A starving populace doesn't win many friends... 604526[/snapback] Why are they starving? Who destroyed their farm land? Did you support the Iraq war at any point?
October 30, 200422 yr how do you destroy dirt? 604531[/snapback] You see Tony farmland is what we educated people consider fertile land. You drop bombs on it well, lets just say it is no longer fertile, rather it is a barren hole in the ground. Do you support the war in Iraq Tony?
October 30, 200422 yr You believe we had a major Iraq farmland bombing campaign going eh? 604539[/snapback] Probably not, but it is hard to say that none of the bombs anywhere didn't hit farms. And it is also hard to say tanks, trucks, troops didn't stamper and walk all through farms, ripping up the ground hurting the land. Tony are you saying you think the farms did not gget injured during the Iraq operation at all? And Tony, do you support the invasion of Iraq?
October 31, 200422 yr Feel free to present any evidence that significant acreage of Iraqi farmland was somehow bombed into unusability. I think you are the one who needs to prove that, you support a plan which pays for 250 tons of fetilizer. I assume they are using it on farm land, unless of course they plan on just putting it at the bottom of some lake. I support finishing the job then leaving. 604650[/snapback] That contridicts what Badnarik would do if he were elected. Did you support going into Iraq in the first place?
October 31, 200422 yr Feel free to present any evidence that significant acreage of Iraqi farmland was somehow bombed into unusability. I think you are the one who needs to prove that, you support a plan which pays for 250 tons of fetilizer. I assume they are using it on farm land, unless of course they plan on just putting it at the bottom of some lake. Why would I support your inane claims? You were the one suggesting there was bombed out farms, not me. And you suggest the purchase of 250 tons of fertilizer and giving it to Iraqis is "good news". If there is no use for the fertizlier, would you still consider spending money on 250 tons the stuff as "good news". If not, find me what they are using those 250 tons of fertilizer on. I support finishing the job then leaving. That contridicts what Badnarik would do if he were elected. Did you support going into Iraq in the first place? Apparently the meaning of "safely" still eludes you...why am I not suprised...after all dems have argued over what the meaning of the word "is" is in the past... "Safely" has 3X more letters than "is" so the opportunity for obfuscation is greatly enhanced :lol Given that we were enforcing no-fly zones and being shot on a regular basis, by Saddam and given that sanctions were joke, and given that available intel suggested there was a clear danger... In THAT geolitical context (which Badnarik would NOT have been a participant in to begin with), yes. Do I desire to be there? No. Practical people, as opposed to droids, often are forced to accept things they'd rather not do in the first place because they've been handed a situation not of their making. 604660[/snapback] I am not a democrat, I am a registered republican, which I have covered before on here. I think our troops would be more "safe" on an airplane or ship out of the middle east than romaing around Fallujah fighting, don't you? So you supported going to war, something that is completely against Libertarian beliefs. You said in another thread that they do not lash out or send troops over seas, a reason why OBL would not of attacked on 9/11 had a libertarian been in charge for the last 200 years, because we would keep to ourselves. You also support seeing the course through, also against Badnarik. What exactly do you share with Badnarik when in comes to view points?
October 31, 200422 yr And you suggest the purchase of 250 tons of fertilizer and giving it to Iraqis is "good news". Food is usually considered good. Most people are addicted to food at birth and respond adversly when its not present... You consider fertilizer food? I hope your don't talk with your mouth full. If there is no use for the fertizlier, would you still consider spending money on 250 tons the stuff as "good news". If not, find me what they are using those 250 tons of fertilizer on. What leads you to believe there's no use for the fertilizer? Most farmers know what to do with fertilizer. Its not like we handed out 250 tons of Beanie Babies or Hulla Hoops to them. Well if all the farmland in Iraq is in good working order and is intact, why are we needing to give it out? I think our troops would be more "safe" on an airplane or ship out of the middle east than romaing around Fallujah fighting, don't you? Obviously. They'd be even safer here in the US. Good thing FDR didn't consider the saftey of the troops though isn't it? We could all be speaking German right now otherwise... You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about military forces and their application by nations. FDR attacked an enemy who was an ally with someone who attacked us, not to mention been attacking our allies and threatend our way of living. Iraq did not attack us 9/11 nor did they threaten our way of living. So you supported going to war, something that is completely against Libertarian beliefs. Within the GIVEN GEOPOLITICAL CONTEXT - yes. Did other Libertarians, mainly Badnarik, support going to war even given that context? You said in another thread that they do not lash out or send troops over seas, a reason why OBL would not of attacked on 9/11 had a libertarian been in charge for the last 200 years, because we would keep to ourselves. I categorically did NOT say Libertarians would not lash out. Quoteback please. If they are provoked, they will respond. We're not a bunch of mushbrained peacenicks. Leave us alone and we leave you alone. Libertarians would not engage in overseas military deployments. Quote
October 31, 200422 yr You consider fertilizer food? I hope your don't talk with your mouth full. I consider fertilizer a desirable component for efficent production of food. Why do you want Iraq to have an inefficient food production mechanism? Do you wish to starve them? I would assume Iraq has their own means of getting fertilizer. Did they run out of cows that we need to ship it out to give to them. Wait... does Halliburton ship out fertilizer now too.... Well if all the farmland in Iraq is in good working order and is intact, why are we needing to give it out? I would guess for the same reason its used extensively in the US. Note that there's been no massive farmland bombing campaign against US soil in recent years, yet farmers still use fertilizer. Ponder this reality for a moment...I'm sure you'll figure out the reason eventually. Hint: it has nothing to do with some strange desire of farmers to impoverish themselves to enrich fertilizer/chemical companies. Hint #2: what does fertilizer do for crops that a can of green spray paint won't? Well that would be giving out aid which is un-nessacary. If the farm land is in good shape, that could be seen as foreign aid, what do I mean could be, that is what it is! That is something else Badnarik is against, foreign aid. Did other Libertarians, mainly Badnarik, support going to war even given that context? I suppose you'd have to ask them. My name is not Kreskin. And speaking of the "B" man he is very anti-war as seen here. Badnarik article Libertarians would not engage in overseas military deployments. Yea, I said that and I stand by it. Your point? If you're attacked you hit back - that does not mean you install these never ending deployments like Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. I think 50 year military deployments are either wasteful, or indicitave of lack of will to solve whatever problem initiated them. Since we've not been attacked by Germany, Japan or South Korea recently, its pretty reasonable to state those deployments are a waste of money. 604816[/snapback] So the US was attacked by Iraq? Once again Tony, where do you get this stuff from? Since we've not been attacked by Iraq, its pretty reasonable to state those deployments as a waste of money, yet you want to stick it through. And you are for that deployment, yet against Germany, Japan, and South Korea deployments and they didn't attack us either. Flip flopping again eh Tony?
October 31, 200422 yr Do you not back anything your candidate stands for Tony? All you do is turn this back to the "major candidates". Lets discuss your man Badnarik for a second. How does he help in this situation? He wants an immediate withdrawl. He does not agree with any foreign aid, which would include Operation Amber waves. He does agree we should pull out of Germany, Japan and S. Korea. This is the man I can quote you on as supporting. So support his standpoints on these issues.
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