I was surfing and I found this interesting tidbit on the Rockies...

 

They have long-term obligations for pitcher Mike Hampton. They owe Florida $2 million this year and in 2007, and $2.5 million in 2008 to finish off the trade of Hampton to the Marlins, who in turn sent him to Atlanta.

 

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/baseball/artic...4583413,00.html

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we done paying Atlanta for Hampton? So we're getting money - 6.5 million over 3 years - for him now?

 

...

We finished paying for Hampton last season, but I was unaware of this money being payed now.

 

Really, it amounts, essentially, to what we owe Pudge and Leiter this season.

We finished paying for Hampton last season, but I was unaware of this money being payed now.

 

Really, it amounts, essentially, to what we owe Pudge and Leiter this season.

 

I believe Swift is correct. Payments ceased last year.

at least thats done with, i thought he still had one year left

Straight to Samson's pockets

Straight to Samson's pockets

 

Yeah...like I said I knew we were done paying him last year...this is kinda what I was getting at.

 

How much do we owe Pudge and Leiter? And why do we always see those figures on estimated payroll lists if we're getting money for Hampton that would essentially pay for it?

Straight to Samson's pockets

 

Yeah...like I said I knew we were done paying him last year...this is kinda what I was getting at.

 

How much do we owe Pudge and Leiter? And why do we always see those figures on estimated payroll lists if we're getting money for Hampton that would essentially pay for it?

 

Cooking the books is much easier when one ignores sizeable payments made to the team by another team as well as a hefty revenue sharing check.

 

What I'm most surprised about is that no one in the media (be it local or national) has made a fuss that Loria's revenue sharing check from MLB figures to be nearly 4 times the salary he is paying this year's squad.

We finished paying for Hampton last season, but I was unaware of this money being payed now.

 

Really, it amounts, essentially, to what we owe Pudge and Leiter this season.

 

 

dont forget the deferred payment we have for Carlos Delgado in the pile

 

2 mil for pudge

1.5 mil for delgado

and like 250K for Leiter

Straight to Samson's pockets

 

Yeah...like I said I knew we were done paying him last year...this is kinda what I was getting at.

 

How much do we owe Pudge and Leiter? And why do we always see those figures on estimated payroll lists if we're getting money for Hampton that would essentially pay for it?

 

Cooking the books is much easier when one ignores sizeable payments made to the team by another team as well as a hefty revenue sharing check.

 

What I'm most surprised about is that no one in the media (be it local or national) has made a fuss that Loria's revenue sharing check from MLB figures to be nearly 4 times the salary he is paying this year's squad.

Maybe because it's nowhere close to 4 times the $15M (or the actual $20M h's paying in player salaries). The highest payout has been $30M in their hopeless Montreal years. By reducing payroll but not necessarily cutting that much from the profit margin, the Marlins will not see a rise in revenue sharing transfers as in the past.

I'm not the biggest fan of Loria and Samson's business practices, but have we considered that that artcle is wrong? Before we accuse Samson of pocketing that $6.5 million, shouldn't we question whether that article has the facts correct? We've all read enough articles to know that even writers like Ringolsby aren't always 100% correct.

 

I found some old articles on the Hampton trade that took place when the trade was approved by MLB. It calls for the Marlins to receive money from the Rockies through 2005.

 

When the Hampton trade was first made, I think it was structured so that the Marlins were on the hook for most of his salary in 2006-2009 and that the Braves paid in 2003-2005. MLB didn't like that for some reason so the deal was modified so that the Marlins were on the hook the first three year. Maybe the Rockies payments to the Marlins moved also. I think Ringolsby is wrong and is looking at the original iteration of the deal. Or that the money is passing through the Marlins and going to the Braves. I doubt the Marlins are getting this money.

 

I think the Marlins cut from shared local revenues was about $21 million last year, but I'm going from memory. Why wouldn't it go up though? I thought the sharing was based on locally generated revenues, not profit margins. Per the CBA, 34% of the local revenues go into a pool that is divided equally among the teams. That $21 million, if it's correct, has to be the net amount (money out from the pool less money contributed). Since the Marlins will be having substantially less local revenue this year, they'll be donating less to the pool. Yes, there will be less overall money (assuming that other teams revenues stay the same) but they'll net out more because they'll be putting so much less into the pool to start with. Then if you factor in a rise in other teams local revenues, I don't see how revenue sharing for the Marlins won't go up this year.

 

Overall, I think the Marins got about $60 million before they sold a ticket, between local revenue sharing and their share of the national TV and radio deals. I gotta check that number though - it may have been $40 million. Edit: So far, I'm up to $47 million - $14 million from Fox, $10 million from ESPN, $2 million from XM, and $21 million from local revenue sharing. I really believe it was about $60 million though so I need to keep digging.

Straight to Samson's pockets

 

Yeah...like I said I knew we were done paying him last year...this is kinda what I was getting at.

 

How much do we owe Pudge and Leiter? And why do we always see those figures on estimated payroll lists if we're getting money for Hampton that would essentially pay for it?

 

Cooking the books is much easier when one ignores sizeable payments made to the team by another team as well as a hefty revenue sharing check.

 

What I'm most surprised about is that no one in the media (be it local or national) has made a fuss that Loria's revenue sharing check from MLB figures to be nearly 4 times the salary he is paying this year's squad.

Maybe because it's nowhere close to 4 times the $15M (or the actual $20M h's paying in player salaries). The highest payout has been $30M in their hopeless Montreal years. By reducing payroll but not necessarily cutting that much from the profit margin, the Marlins will not see a rise in revenue sharing transfers as in the past.

 

The Marlins received close to $60 million in revenue sharing and MLB pooled marketing money last season.

I love the way people look at only one side of the equation. :thumbdown

Straight to Samson's pockets

 

Yeah...like I said I knew we were done paying him last year...this is kinda what I was getting at.

 

How much do we owe Pudge and Leiter? And why do we always see those figures on estimated payroll lists if we're getting money for Hampton that would essentially pay for it?

 

Cooking the books is much easier when one ignores sizeable payments made to the team by another team as well as a hefty revenue sharing check.

 

What I'm most surprised about is that no one in the media (be it local or national) has made a fuss that Loria's revenue sharing check from MLB figures to be nearly 4 times the salary he is paying this year's squad.

Maybe because it's nowhere close to 4 times the $15M (or the actual $20M h's paying in player salaries). The highest payout has been $30M in their hopeless Montreal years. By reducing payroll but not necessarily cutting that much from the profit margin, the Marlins will not see a rise in revenue sharing transfers as in the past.

 

The Marlins received close to $60 million in revenue sharing and MLB pooled marketing money last season.

One part is revenue sharing transfers, local revenues of other teams which they had affect in generating. The other part is national media contracts, which I certainly call welfare or revenue sharing. We're also ignoring, Loria's return on investment from MLB Advanced Media's ventures, which from my understanding hasn't generated huge profits yet (it's valued high and if they were ever to sell though...). Nevermind that team operations beyond the 25-man roster typically match or exceed the average payroll. With the Marlins' small payroll, team operating expenses will run 3-4 times the amount they're paying in team salaries. That "revenue sharing" as you call it has to be earmarked to activities to keep the team and its minor league system open and active, let alone offer funds to improve it.

I think the Marlins cut from shared local revenues was about $21 million last year, but I'm going from memory. Why wouldn't it go up though? I thought the sharing was based on locally generated revenues, not profit margins. Per the CBA, 34% of the local revenues go into a pool that is divided equally among the teams. That $21 million, if it's correct, has to be the net amount (money out from the pool less money contributed). Since the Marlins will be having substantially less local revenue this year, they'll be donating less to the pool. Yes, there will be less overall money (assuming that other teams revenues stay the same) but they'll net out more because they'll be putting so much less into the pool to start with. Then if you factor in a rise in other teams local revenues, I don't see how revenue sharing for the Marlins won't go up this year.

Nope. Local revenues are defined as 'net local revenues'.

I think the Marlins' local revenues will pretty hold steady. I think there's a core group who will stay and the bandwagon fans never mad/ke much difference.

Meanwhile the bulk of expected revenue gains this year across the league are from national ventures, such as MLBAM expanding and the sale of the Nats.

However, the difference may come in being able to write off expenses related to relocation and the stadium project(s), thus reducing the amount they'd have to contribute to revenue sharing.

It seems that none of you guys understand that Samson is the president of the Marlins not the owner. It doesn't go to "his" pocket, he's an employee of the LLC that owns the franchise just like Admin Beinfest or Joe Girardi or your season ticket salesperson.

 

No matter how much hate some of you have for the guy, try getting just a few of your facts straight before posting this rubbish.

Nope. Local revenues are defined as 'net local revenues'.

I think the Marlins' local revenues will pretty hold steady. I think there's a core group who will stay and the bandwagon fans never mad/ke much difference.

 

Net local revenues are defined as local revenues less stadium costs. As I'm sure you know, payroll isn't part of it so I musta misinterpreted your statement of "By reducing payroll but not necessarily cutting that much from the profit margin, the Marlins will not see a rise in revenue sharing transfers as in the past"; I thought you were associating payroll with revenue sharing. That wasn't my point though - my point was that local revenues, even net local revenues, will go down. Even though the Marlins have a lousy lease they still get revenue from tickets sold and I gotta disagree with you if you think there's not going to be a bunch less tickets sold. They'll be lucky to break a million in attendance. If they drop about 800,000 in attendance, and you figure it's about $10 a ticket (and that's probably low), that's about $8 million less in net local revenues. Parking and concessions won't matter much because they never got much out of those but the actual ticket sales will hurt. Meanwhile, I don't expect the stadium expenses (rent, electric, etc.) to drop much if any. So net local revenues should drop which means they should be taking more out of the revenue sharing pool. I'd also expect the total revenue sharing pool to rise because it seems like overall attendance records are always being broken and average ticket prices always go up.

 

If the $60 million of shared revenue is accurate, there is no way the team made money last year. But if it stays the same, or goes up about $5 million this year as I expect, I think they'll make a mint this year.

 

And Marlins2003, I think a large part of people associating money going into Samson's pocket is because he's not just an employee like Girardi and Beinfest - he's also Loria's stepson. I'm a Detroit Lions fan and I don't make any differentiation between William Clay Ford and Bill Ford. But I'm not one of the people who think there is a $6.5 million Rockies payment going into anybody's pocket. Even if it did exist, whether it's going into Samson's pocket or Loria's pocket isn't the point of the people who are upset about it anyway. It's that it's money going into the pocket of the "owner" that's not being reported on. It seems like a kinda minor point you're railing against - Samson or Loria, at least in this thread. Would you be happy if the earlier posters complained about the money going into Loria's pocket instead? You'd be better off arguing that the $6.5 million is a reporting mistake. But it looks like you missed that part in my post.

this year we can simply add up how much all the big market teams made, determine how much of it is the 34%, then we devide into all the small market teams to determine how much the Marlins will get. We can do all the math ourselves, it's easy, we can also add up last years figures and the year before that.

You are correct. My mistake associating payroll to the net local revenues.

The Marlins might be able to deduct some expenses related to relocation and/or new stadium plans from inclusion into revenue sharing, thus rising their take.

I am not certain that other team's revenues available to be transferred to the Marlins and other low-revenue teams are stable or due to increase in years. Baseball's biggest team in its biggest market (Yankees) deducting their expenses of their new stadium will take a large amount out of that pool. As will the continuing maintenance and expansion of ballparks in Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and MLB towns throughout.