May 26, 200620 yr No, we did not have the legal right to into there, we didnt have the moral right to go into there I don't have the time to read the entire post right now, but the first part of this statement is incorrect. Several previous UN resolutions authorized the use of force to remove Saddam from power if certain conditions were valid. The main one being related to how he treated his citizens. He obviously fails the treatment clause, which gives any country that took part in the first Gulf War the right to go back in. Hence, the invasion was legal.
May 26, 200620 yr A simple title. What are your thoughts on this man? Scumbag, liar What are your thoughts on his policies? Killing of america and the middle class What are your thoughts on his administration? The worst in the History of this country In sum, lets go. Take your side, make your point and lets have a little, fun debate here. If you think Bush is/was worse than Nixon then somethings wrong..... He is much worse then Nixon, Much worse. Nixon got the troops out of Vietnam last I checked. He was getting out of JFK's mistake of a war. Ok man....keep telling yourself that. Vietnam and terrorism are 2 completely different wars. Nixon is by far the WORST President ever to hold office. Most people would agree.... Extreme leftists would think Bush is (mainly because they aren't in power).......me for one is happy that there hasn't been another terrorist attack in 5 years. Put Hillary in office and the world becomes a much scarier place.....please God let Guilani win! He is much worse then Nixon, Much worse. Nixon got the troops out of Vietnam last I checked. He was getting out of JFK's mistake of a war. That's about all Nixon did well though. Is war the only thing that concerns you? Is fishfan79 French? Let me ask him something......What would you do in Iraq? No one WANTS to be in Iraq anymore. But now we have made it our obligation to create a democracy there. We can't stop when it's 75% complete. We did the right thing in taking out Saddam and his regime and I will debate ANYONE on that subject. Now, we must make their government stable enough to govern themselves. I have 3 friends in Iraq right now and they say it is a MUCH safer place than it was. The media portrays it to be WW3 over there and thats not the case. The liberal media does NOT show the soldiers feeding Iraqi's and playing with the children. CHILDREN LOVE US THERE! With a little education for these kids.....this country's future will be bright. Instead of just flicking on NBC and watching the 10 killings a day....look at the big picture for once....... We took out a crazy dictator and we are turning a country completely around....whether you believe that was our responsibility or not- WE DID THE RIGHT THING. The world is a safer place and Iran is next if you ask me.... If you can not have a rational conversation without insulting me by calling me french because my opinion is different then yours please dont respond to my posts. As for the rest of your post, do you need to quote the rhetoric that is just horribly unbalanced? For your information I am registered republican, sh$t I used to be engaged to a republican senator's grand-daughter. Yes we took apart a crazy dictator, which we put into office. No the world is not a safer place. No, we did not have the legal right to into there, we didnt have the moral right to go into there. Yes, we just ruined the good will and credibility in the world. We have screwed up Afghanistan hugely as well because we left there with our soliders. That country has been falling apart completely since we pulled out most of our troops. So much for a democracy there. Iraq has had thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths within this war. Most from our own actions, from bombing an other instances. You are talking ten to thirty times the numbers that were killed for us in the september 11th attacks and that is a very conservative number for the death tolls. I have 5 friends over there as well and they tell me all the time how terrible it is. I dont know what beach resort you are on but the people over there dont like us that much. They dont want us there and they didnt want us there in the first place. All we have done by going into Iraq is lose thousands of american lives. Lose tens of thousands of Iraq lives. Destabilize the region and our allies in the region like Turkey and Isreal further. The Media in this country is not left wing, it hasnt been left wing since Regan was in office. Please look whom owns the media. I may be a republican but I am realist as well. What is next, wish to call me a Communist because I disagree? My family has lost relatives going back into the war of 1812 for this country. I love my country very much, I have been to Europe and Asia as well. I am telling you now this war was a mistake. Iran was the country we should of went into, and we should of had a battle plan. We shouldnt of Blatantly lied to the american people, and the world at large. I am not even going to get into the domestic plan, or lack there of, for the Bush administration. I will not get into the failures in office for Fema, or within the situations of the past hurrianes. I wont get into the fact this is the largest government we have had for beaurocrats for the history of our country. The largest national debt and dependance upon foreign nations in our history. The largest number of economic scandals in the history of the country. I would of loved for a republican to get elected for office in the 2000 year, but the wrong one did. The one I wanted for office was named McCain. Ok buddy...sorry for calling you French...but you lost me the 1st time by calling our President a scumbag! You lost me a 2nd time by saying our media is not left wing! You lost me a 3rd time by saying the world is not a safer place without Saddam! He's a mass murderer of thousands! And was trying to get nuclear weapons! I can't debate those topics because I know I'm right. However, I understand that SOME Iraqi's don't want us there. It's about 50/50 like it is in the US. The point I was trying to make is that most of the kids/children DO like us. And I know that for a fact. I watched 8 videos of Iraqi children (about 500 of them) playing games with troops last weekend when my friend Will came home. ALL THEY NEED IS EDUCATION. Of course adult Iraqi's didn't want us to be there when they were told for years to worship Saddam! THEY NEED TO BE EDUCATED! The future is in the children and thats how you build a country from the ground up. "All we have done by going into Iraq is lose thousands of american lives. Lose tens of thousands of Iraq lives".......... That is what you said...again look at the big picture man. Sometimes we must make sacrifices to make the world a safer place. Iraq will be an ally and democratic in the future. They don't have a crazy dictator there anymore. I love our troops and they volunteered to protect us. Saddam with nukes is a scary thought....our troops did their job! "What is next, wish to call me a Communist because I disagree? My family has lost relatives going back into the war of 1812 for this country. I love my country very much, I have been to Europe and Asia as well. I am telling you now this war was a mistake. Iran was the country we should of went into, and we should of had a battle plan. We shouldnt of Blatantly lied to the american people, and the world at large." I'm sorry about your family members but did they volunteer for the USA? If so, then they are heros. They did their job. We may have made a mistake in not going into Iran 1st but both countries needed a makeover. How did Bush lie to the American people? Their intelligence told them....they were developing nuclear weapons. Even if they had zero weapons....you would be nieve to think that Saddam was not planning to develop them. I mean the guy was nuts. "I would of loved for a republican to get elected for office in the 2000 year, but the wrong one did. The one I wanted for office was named McCain." McCain is a flip-flopper....Sure, he's strong on terrorism and I wouldn't have minded him in office but talk about a liar.....the guy switches his positions more often than Liz Taylor has husbands.
May 26, 200620 yr Why not just explain your stance instead of Simpson quotes? Let me ask you....are you happy we invaded Iraq? YES OR NO? Our nation was attacked by an individual threat on 9-11, not a broad generalized threat. Our mission after 9-11 was to eliminate that specific threat first and foremost. Then it was to foster an international policy that would create global unity in fighting those terrorist threats. We did not complete the first part and we didn't come close to completing the second part. Instead we created this tunnel vision policy that we can invade any country whenever we feel like it because we are the world police. We are the judge, jury, and executioner. There is no detailed analysis, there is no diplomacy, there are just vague generalizations that would get you a D on the average college paper. We have become absolutists which is the worst approach to have in foreign policy, especially when lives are on the line. Am I happy that the evil dictator is out of power? Yes. But it has never been that simple and it is totally asinine of you to try and simplify it like that. I am not happy with how this administration, because it thought only in broad generalizations, didnt realize how complex the post-war situation was going to be and how many lives would be lost because of their failure to think this out. I am not happy with the terrible foreign policy and precedent that has been created in order to accomplish this. Just look at what youve already suggested on numerous occasions. Invade Korea next, then invade Iran, then invade Russia, then invade China. How crazy can you be?
May 26, 200620 yr Clinton worshiped God too, just becuase you worship God does not not make you a good person. Obviously he didn't worship God. He broke one of the Ten Commandments. Clinton a Christian? Please don't tell me you believe everything out of that man's mouth! Why not just explain your stance instead of Simpson quotes? Let me ask you....are you happy we invaded Iraq? YES OR NO? Our nation was attacked by an individual threat on 9-11, not a broad generalized threat. Our mission after 9-11 was to eliminate that specific threat first and foremost. Then it was to foster an international policy that would create global unity in fighting those terrorist threats. We did not complete the first part and we didn't come close to completing the second part. Instead we created this tunnel vision policy that we can invade any country whenever we feel like it because we are the world police. We are the judge, jury, and executioner. There is no detailed analysis, there is no diplomacy, there are just vague generalizations that would get you a D on the average college paper. We have become absolutists which is the worst approach to have in foreign policy, especially when lives are on the line. Am I happy that the evil dictator is out of power? Yes. But it has never been that simple and it is totally asinine of you to try and simplify it like that. I am not happy with how this administration, because it thought only in broad generalizations, didnt realize how complex the post-war situation was going to be and how many lives would be lost because of their failure to think this out. I am not happy with the terrible foreign policy and precedent that has been created in order to accomplish this. Just look at what youve already suggested on numerous occasions. Invade Korea next, then invade Iran, then invade Russia, then invade China. How crazy can you be? Relax ever heard of jokes? Invade Russia and China? Iran will be and should be next. Look, there are no easy outs during wars. There are always going to be problems and no matter who is in office during war time, something new will come up. "Our nation was attacked by an individual threat on 9-11, not a broad generalized threat." That is false. How do you know? There are many countries linked to terrorism. You should know that. Saddam could have been linked. Some say he was- some say he wasn't.....it shouldn't surprise anyone if he was. Why not just explain your stance instead of Simpson quotes? Let me ask you....are you happy we invaded Iraq? YES OR NO? Our nation was attacked by an individual threat on 9-11, not a broad generalized threat. Our mission after 9-11 was to eliminate that specific threat first and foremost. Then it was to foster an international policy that would create global unity in fighting those terrorist threats. We did not complete the first part and we didn't come close to completing the second part. Flying Mollusk I respect your opinion all the way back to our Marlin and Magic days on ESPN message boards however you are completely wrong about the above statement. 100% wrong!...... This is straight from CNN.... Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism. UNSCR 687 prohibits Saddam Hussein from committing or supporting terrorism, or allowing terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Saddam continues to violate these UNSCR provisions. In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals. Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians. Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer. Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq. In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a "martyr" and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue." Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.
May 26, 200620 yr Clinton worshiped God too, just becuase you worship God does not not make you a good person. Obviously he didn't worship God. He broke one of the Ten Commandments. Clinton a Christian? Please don't tell me you believe everything out of that man's mouth! Why not just explain your stance instead of Simpson quotes? Let me ask you....are you happy we invaded Iraq? YES OR NO? Our nation was attacked by an individual threat on 9-11, not a broad generalized threat. Our mission after 9-11 was to eliminate that specific threat first and foremost. Then it was to foster an international policy that would create global unity in fighting those terrorist threats. We did not complete the first part and we didn't come close to completing the second part. Instead we created this tunnel vision policy that we can invade any country whenever we feel like it because we are the world police. We are the judge, jury, and executioner. There is no detailed analysis, there is no diplomacy, there are just vague generalizations that would get you a D on the average college paper. We have become absolutists which is the worst approach to have in foreign policy, especially when lives are on the line. Am I happy that the evil dictator is out of power? Yes. But it has never been that simple and it is totally asinine of you to try and simplify it like that. I am not happy with how this administration, because it thought only in broad generalizations, didnt realize how complex the post-war situation was going to be and how many lives would be lost because of their failure to think this out. I am not happy with the terrible foreign policy and precedent that has been created in order to accomplish this. Just look at what youve already suggested on numerous occasions. Invade Korea next, then invade Iran, then invade Russia, then invade China. How crazy can you be? Relax ever heard of jokes? Invade Russia and China? Iran will be and should be next. Look, there are no easy outs during wars. There are always going to be problems and no matter who is in office during war time, something new will come up. "Our nation was attacked by an individual threat on 9-11, not a broad generalized threat." That is false. How do you know? There are many countries linked to terrorism. You should know that. Saddam could have been linked. Some say he was- some say he wasn't.....it shouldn't surprise anyone if he was. It is false that our nation was attacked by Al Queda and Al Queda alone because other countries are broadly linked to terrorism and Saddam COULD have been linked? Are you serious? Well let me use that same irrational thought-Bush could have been linked to 9-11 and some say he was because he has supported countries knowing that they support terrorist activities. See how that makes absolutley no sense? Obviously war is difficult. But this administration ignored every piece of argument and evidence that suggested the situation in Iraq was a lot more complex than difficult that silly little arguments like "he is a bad bad man." Now it's ok to throw up their hands and say its' alone going to be tough? Where else does this kind of crap pass? .
May 26, 200620 yr And not one mention of Al Queda and Bin Laden, the person who has waged a war on us for a number of years now. Btw, do you think Hussein is the only person on the planet who supports terrorists? And if he violated a UN provision, shouldnt the UN deal with it? Why do we get to tell the UN to go to hell when UN law is violated? Can Florida go into Georgia guns blazing because someone in Georgia violated a law in Georgia?
May 26, 200620 yr It is false that our nation was attacked by Al Queda and Al Queda alone because other countries are broadly linked to terrorism and Saddam COULD have been linked? Are you serious? -Flying Mollusk- Yes I am serious....You don't believe other countries are linked to terrorism? Do you read the above FACTS? He broke one of the Ten Commandments, so Bill Clinton is not a Christian?! :lol Why is that funny? He said that Clinton worships God. If someone really worships God, then he wouldn't be able to cheat on his wife. TRUE or FALSE????
May 26, 200620 yr It is false that our nation was attacked by Al Queda and Al Queda alone because other countries are broadly linked to terrorism and Saddam COULD have been linked? Are you serious? -Flying Mollusk- Yes I am serious....You don't believe other countries are linked to terrorism? Do you read the above FACTS? There are lots of terrorist organizations in the world who operate under different agendas. Al Queda has waged a war on the US and has attacked on on numerous occasions. By your argument, a country that supports the IRA is linked to 9-11. Our own ally, Pakistan, has supported terrorist attacks on India. So they are responsible for 9-11 too. We have major threats in fundamentlists groups operating in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan which makes them much more linked to 9-11 than Hussein. You arent comprehending the facts to the right conclusion.
May 26, 200620 yr If we are going to say if you break the ten commandments you are not a chrisitian then most of the world has just violated them and been removed. Thou shall not kill. Every solider in america is not longer christian? Cops that have had to kill? President and Generals that have given the order to kill? Having Meat upon friday used to an offense that could be punishable by death and against the laws of the church too. I believe that there is only 1 individual in the world that knows if you are a christian, jew, muslim or not. That individual is God.
May 26, 200620 yr Why is that funny? He said that Clinton worships God. If someone really worships God, then he wouldn't be able to cheat on his wife. TRUE or FALSE???? Doesnt it also say thou shall not kill? How would Bush be able to explain collateral damage to God?
May 26, 200620 yr And not one mention of Al Queda and Bin Laden, the person who has waged a war on us for a number of years now. Btw, do you think Hussein is the only person on the planet who supports terrorists? And if he violated a UN provision, shouldnt the UN deal with it? Why do we get to tell the UN to go to hell when UN law is violated? Can Florida go into Georgia guns blazing because someone in Georgia violated a law in Georgia? The UN is crap man. Pure crap. Useless....we are the greatest country. We do what we want, when we want. The UN would never do anything to stop someone crazy from getting nukes....what are they going to do???? SANCTIONS? Oh wow....that'll stop crazy people from developing biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons.... No....we stop it because we can. I think people who don't think the US should NOT take responsibility should move out of the country.
May 26, 200620 yr A simple title. What are your thoughts on this man? Scumbag, liar What are your thoughts on his policies? Killing of america and the middle class What are your thoughts on his administration? The worst in the History of this country In sum, lets go. Take your side, make your point and lets have a little, fun debate here. If you think Bush is/was worse than Nixon then somethings wrong..... He is much worse then Nixon, Much worse. Nixon got the troops out of Vietnam last I checked. He was getting out of JFK's mistake of a war. Ok man....keep telling yourself that. Vietnam and terrorism are 2 completely different wars. Nixon is by far the WORST President ever to hold office. Most people would agree.... Extreme leftists would think Bush is (mainly because they aren't in power).......me for one is happy that there hasn't been another terrorist attack in 5 years. Put Hillary in office and the world becomes a much scarier place.....please God let Guilani win! He is much worse then Nixon, Much worse. Nixon got the troops out of Vietnam last I checked. He was getting out of JFK's mistake of a war. That's about all Nixon did well though. Is war the only thing that concerns you? Is fishfan79 French? Let me ask him something......What would you do in Iraq? No one WANTS to be in Iraq anymore. But now we have made it our obligation to create a democracy there. We can't stop when it's 75% complete. We did the right thing in taking out Saddam and his regime and I will debate ANYONE on that subject. Now, we must make their government stable enough to govern themselves. I have 3 friends in Iraq right now and they say it is a MUCH safer place than it was. The media portrays it to be WW3 over there and thats not the case. The liberal media does NOT show the soldiers feeding Iraqi's and playing with the children. CHILDREN LOVE US THERE! With a little education for these kids.....this country's future will be bright. Instead of just flicking on NBC and watching the 10 killings a day....look at the big picture for once....... We took out a crazy dictator and we are turning a country completely around....whether you believe that was our responsibility or not- WE DID THE RIGHT THING. The world is a safer place and Iran is next if you ask me.... If you can not have a rational conversation without insulting me by calling me french because my opinion is different then yours please dont respond to my posts. As for the rest of your post, do you need to quote the rhetoric that is just horribly unbalanced? For your information I am registered republican, sh$t I used to be engaged to a republican senator's grand-daughter. Yes we took apart a crazy dictator, which we put into office. No the world is not a safer place. No, we did not have the legal right to into there, we didnt have the moral right to go into there. Yes, we just ruined the good will and credibility in the world. We have screwed up Afghanistan hugely as well because we left there with our soliders. That country has been falling apart completely since we pulled out most of our troops. So much for a democracy there. Iraq has had thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths within this war. Most from our own actions, from bombing an other instances. You are talking ten to thirty times the numbers that were killed for us in the september 11th attacks and that is a very conservative number for the death tolls. I have 5 friends over there as well and they tell me all the time how terrible it is. I dont know what beach resort you are on but the people over there dont like us that much. They dont want us there and they didnt want us there in the first place. All we have done by going into Iraq is lose thousands of american lives. Lose tens of thousands of Iraq lives. Destabilize the region and our allies in the region like Turkey and Isreal further. The Media in this country is not left wing, it hasnt been left wing since Regan was in office. Please look whom owns the media. I may be a republican but I am realist as well. What is next, wish to call me a Communist because I disagree? My family has lost relatives going back into the war of 1812 for this country. I love my country very much, I have been to Europe and Asia as well. I am telling you now this war was a mistake. Iran was the country we should of went into, and we should of had a battle plan. We shouldnt of Blatantly lied to the american people, and the world at large. I am not even going to get into the domestic plan, or lack there of, for the Bush administration. I will not get into the failures in office for Fema, or within the situations of the past hurrianes. I wont get into the fact this is the largest government we have had for beaurocrats for the history of our country. The largest national debt and dependance upon foreign nations in our history. The largest number of economic scandals in the history of the country. I would of loved for a republican to get elected for office in the 2000 year, but the wrong one did. The one I wanted for office was named McCain. Ok buddy...sorry for calling you French...but you lost me the 1st time by calling our President a scumbag! You lost me a 2nd time by saying our media is not left wing! You lost me a 3rd time by saying the world is not a safer place without Saddam! He's a mass murderer of thousands! And was trying to get nuclear weapons! I can't debate those topics because I know I'm right. However, I understand that SOME Iraqi's don't want us there. It's about 50/50 like it is in the US. The point I was trying to make is that most of the kids/children DO like us. And I know that for a fact. I watched 8 videos of Iraqi children (about 500 of them) playing games with troops last weekend when my friend Will came home. ALL THEY NEED IS EDUCATION. Of course adult Iraqi's didn't want us to be there when they were told for years to worship Saddam! THEY NEED TO BE EDUCATED! The future is in the children and thats how you build a country from the ground up. "All we have done by going into Iraq is lose thousands of american lives. Lose tens of thousands of Iraq lives".......... That is what you said...again look at the big picture man. Sometimes we must make sacrifices to make the world a safer place. Iraq will be an ally and democratic in the future. They don't have a crazy dictator there anymore. I love our troops and they volunteered to protect us. Saddam with nukes is a scary thought....our troops did their job! "What is next, wish to call me a Communist because I disagree? My family has lost relatives going back into the war of 1812 for this country. I love my country very much, I have been to Europe and Asia as well. I am telling you now this war was a mistake. Iran was the country we should of went into, and we should of had a battle plan. We shouldnt of Blatantly lied to the american people, and the world at large." I'm sorry about your family members but did they volunteer for the USA? If so, then they are heros. They did their job. We may have made a mistake in not going into Iran 1st but both countries needed a makeover. How did Bush lie to the American people? Their intelligence told them....they were developing nuclear weapons. Even if they had zero weapons....you would be nieve to think that Saddam was not planning to develop them. I mean the guy was nuts. "I would of loved for a republican to get elected for office in the 2000 year, but the wrong one did. The one I wanted for office was named McCain." McCain is a flip-flopper....Sure, he's strong on terrorism and I wouldn't have minded him in office but talk about a liar.....the guy switches his positions more often than Liz Taylor has husbands. I need to get back to work, gateway pays me for something, so cant do a full response. But I hate the word flip-flopper. I want a leader that listens and is willing to admit a stance when they are wrong. Often an individual as a leader of the country that knows that sometimes it takes the best for the country to come before his own personal choice of beliefs. McCain has already dont more for this country then Bush ever will.
May 26, 200620 yr Why is that funny? He said that Clinton worships God. If someone really worships God, then he wouldn't be able to cheat on his wife. TRUE or FALSE???? Doesnt it also say thou shall not kill? How would Bush be able to explain collateral damage to God? I already thought about that before you typed it..... This is about good vs. evil. Terrorists are evil. Car bombing, Suicide bombings???? God put these people on Earth and they blow themselves up and kill others? I believe we are doing the right thing. Period.
May 26, 200620 yr And not one mention of Al Queda and Bin Laden, the person who has waged a war on us for a number of years now. Btw, do you think Hussein is the only person on the planet who supports terrorists? And if he violated a UN provision, shouldnt the UN deal with it? Why do we get to tell the UN to go to hell when UN law is violated? Can Florida go into Georgia guns blazing because someone in Georgia violated a law in Georgia? The UN is crap man. Pure crap. Useless....we are the greatest country. We do what we want, when we want. The UN would never do anything to stop someone crazy from getting nukes....what are they going to do???? SACTIONS? Oh wow....that'll stop crazy people from developing biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons.... No....we stop it because we can. I think people who don't think the US should take responsibility should move out of the country. The UN is a good organization that has problems within it that need to be fixed. We need to take a hard stance towards fixing those problems. Not just ignore the existance of it. As for the Greatest country in the world, in my heart I want to say so. But I know that even the greatest Empires in the world fell eventually when they kept acting alone. Ask the British whom never had the sun set upon them. Or the Romans whom has control a monsterous size, after all Rome will never be razed. Ask the Byzantine and their 1,000 years of ruling what can happen. As for the chemical and biological weapons he wouldnt of had it if we didnt give it to them. And never found proof in any insistance of the weapons for nuclear. The CIA has reported the exact opposite to be true on almost every instance. Now Iran, that is different. Those SOBs should of been taken down. you can bring more proof to the table that Saudia Arabia is behind the 9/11 attacks then Iraq Easily Why is that funny? He said that Clinton worships God. If someone really worships God, then he wouldn't be able to cheat on his wife. TRUE or FALSE???? Doesnt it also say thou shall not kill? How would Bush be able to explain collateral damage to God? I already thought about that before you typed it..... This is about good vs. evil. Terrorists are evil. Car bombing, Suicide bombings???? God put these people on Earth and they blow themselves up and kill others? I believe we are doing the right thing. Period. so the brpegnant women and children are evil? Or are they evil because they follow the Koran as well as the old and new testament?
May 26, 200620 yr I need to get back to work, gateway pays me for something, so cant do a full response. But I hate the word flip-flopper. I want a leader that listens and is willing to admit a stance when they are wrong. Often an individual as a leader of the country that knows that sometimes it takes the best for the country to come before his own personal choice of beliefs. McCain has already dont more for this country then Bush ever will. - Fishfan79 The White House pushes through sweeping curtailments of liberties, but McCain, who worships Barry Goldwater and casts himself as a plain speaking frontiersman from the West who loves freedom and liberty, votes for the Patriot Act. He then proceeds to furiously look the other way as the White House "Fact" Factory sends forth one false reason after another to invade Iraq, pausing only to offer support to the pushing of the War (along with one Joseph I. Lieberman, Democrat). Here is a brief record of McCain's votes during those crucial days: --Byrd's Proposal to Require Bush to Seek Additional Congressional Authority if Bush's War Was to Exceed Two Years (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Byrd's Proposal Rejecting Preemptive War, Regardless of Whether it is Unilateral or Multilateral (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Durbin's Proposal for a Multilateral Preemptive War (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Authorization for Preemptive War Against Iraq (10/11/2002). McCain votes For, pushing and piloting the bill assiduously. The war rolls on, and this proclaimed guardian of the interests of fighting men and women cannot find it in himself to criticize his own cupidity in believing the White House and sending hundreds of American soldiers to their doom in a war over supposed weapons of mass destruction that a year later are still unfound. If questioned, he too is comfortable mouthing the non-answer, "the world is better off with Saddam gone". So, he is not a flip flopper? (So what if its a stupid word...everyone knows what it means)
May 26, 200620 yr Ok, Im done with this. You continue to resort to inane arguments like "he is crazy" and "I know I am right" and "this is about good vs. evil." The fact is, you cant link Hussein directly to 9-11 or helping AQ with 9-11. It's simply too complex and youve mixed it up into broad generalizations that fit your political conclusions. You havent provided any direct evidence that there was an imminent and clear threat from Hussein. And you havent answered how ignoring the threats in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, which are directly linked to us actually being attacked, has been good for American security.
May 26, 200620 yr He broke one of the Ten Commandments, so Bill Clinton is not a Christian?! :lol Why is that funny? He said that Clinton worships God. If someone really worships God, then he wouldn't be able to cheat on his wife. TRUE or FALSE???? False, no human is infallible, which is the whole reason Jesus died for us in the first place.
May 26, 200620 yr And not one mention of Al Queda and Bin Laden, the person who has waged a war on us for a number of years now. Btw, do you think Hussein is the only person on the planet who supports terrorists? And if he violated a UN provision, shouldnt the UN deal with it? Why do we get to tell the UN to go to hell when UN law is violated? Can Florida go into Georgia guns blazing because someone in Georgia violated a law in Georgia? The UN is crap man. Pure crap. Useless....we are the greatest country. We do what we want, when we want. The UN would never do anything to stop someone crazy from getting nukes....what are they going to do???? SANCTIONS? Oh wow....that'll stop crazy people from developing biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons.... No....we stop it because we can. I think people who don't think the US should NOT take responsibility should move out of the country. Ok, Im done with this. You continue to resort to inane arguments like "he is crazy" and "I know I am right" and "this is about good vs. evil." The fact is, you cant link Hussein directly to 9-11 or helping AQ with 9-11. It's simply too complex and youve mixed it up into broad generalizations that fit your political conclusions. Flying....answer these questions with yes or no.....then I'll leave you alone...... 1) Do you believe that other countries are linked to AQ? 2) Should we have invaded Iraq and took out Saddam? 3) Should we invade Iran and prevent them from getting nukes ONLY if they continue to defy the UN and talks? All I want is yes or no's........... He broke one of the Ten Commandments, so Bill Clinton is not a Christian?! :lol Why is that funny? He said that Clinton worships God. If someone really worships God, then he wouldn't be able to cheat on his wife. TRUE or FALSE???? False, no human is infallible, which is the whole reason Jesus died for us in the first place. That is true. Good point! :thumbup How the hell could he cheat with her anyway?
May 26, 200620 yr I need to get back to work, gateway pays me for something, so cant do a full response. But I hate the word flip-flopper. I want a leader that listens and is willing to admit a stance when they are wrong. Often an individual as a leader of the country that knows that sometimes it takes the best for the country to come before his own personal choice of beliefs. McCain has already dont more for this country then Bush ever will. - Fishfan79 The White House pushes through sweeping curtailments of liberties, but McCain, who worships Barry Goldwater and casts himself as a plain speaking frontiersman from the West who loves freedom and liberty, votes for the Patriot Act. He then proceeds to furiously look the other way as the White House "Fact" Factory sends forth one false reason after another to invade Iraq, pausing only to offer support to the pushing of the War (along with one Joseph I. Lieberman, Democrat). Here is a brief record of McCain's votes during those crucial days: --Byrd's Proposal to Require Bush to Seek Additional Congressional Authority if Bush's War Was to Exceed Two Years (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Byrd's Proposal Rejecting Preemptive War, Regardless of Whether it is Unilateral or Multilateral (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Durbin's Proposal for a Multilateral Preemptive War (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Authorization for Preemptive War Against Iraq (10/11/2002). McCain votes For, pushing and piloting the bill assiduously. The war rolls on, and this proclaimed guardian of the interests of fighting men and women cannot find it in himself to criticize his own cupidity in believing the White House and sending hundreds of American soldiers to their doom in a war over supposed weapons of mass destruction that a year later are still unfound. If questioned, he too is comfortable mouthing the non-answer, "the world is better off with Saddam gone". So, he is not a flip flopper? (So what if its a stupid word...everyone knows what it means) I stated once before Changing a position upon somethng isnt a horrible thing. You also need to look at what attachments there are within the bills on an individual by individual case. But I stand by my statement McCain has done more for this country then Bush ever did or will do. simply fact, he served this country in the US military and was even a POW in Vietnam. That alone puts him as a high caliber of character and class then Bush, whose money and father got him out of the war. Then even leaving service to go work with politics.
May 26, 200620 yr If I answered your questions with yes or no answers, I would be allowing the same black or white thinking that I despise. You asked me if other countries are linked to AQ. None of us know to what degrees a country is linked to AQ. But I do know that fundamentalist threats do continue to reside in certain parts of the world including our own allies. You asked me if we should have invaded Iraq and taken out Saddam. I think Ive been pretty clear that it simply wasnt the time for our foreign policy to be centralized around Saddam Hussein and Iraq. You ask me if we should invade Iran. First off we arent going to invade Iran. We would just bomb them from afar. We probably cant invade Iran with ground troops. It is simply too difficult. Second, if you stopped thinking like GI Joe for a second, you would realize that Iran's leaders arent crazy wackos who only desire to do evil. If you think for a second that this guy wants to get into a war with us, youre blind. He isnt stupid enough to build a bomb and actually use it. Im almost positive that a diplomatic solution can be reached with Iran. But Im pretty sure that trigger happy Bush and the GI Joe mentality that you share with him will not allow diplomacy to reach it's logical ends. This article I posted a while back says a lot. http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...topic=61146&hl=
May 26, 200620 yr I need to get back to work, gateway pays me for something, so cant do a full response. But I hate the word flip-flopper. I want a leader that listens and is willing to admit a stance when they are wrong. Often an individual as a leader of the country that knows that sometimes it takes the best for the country to come before his own personal choice of beliefs. McCain has already dont more for this country then Bush ever will. - Fishfan79 The White House pushes through sweeping curtailments of liberties, but McCain, who worships Barry Goldwater and casts himself as a plain speaking frontiersman from the West who loves freedom and liberty, votes for the Patriot Act. He then proceeds to furiously look the other way as the White House "Fact" Factory sends forth one false reason after another to invade Iraq, pausing only to offer support to the pushing of the War (along with one Joseph I. Lieberman, Democrat). Here is a brief record of McCain's votes during those crucial days: --Byrd's Proposal to Require Bush to Seek Additional Congressional Authority if Bush's War Was to Exceed Two Years (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Byrd's Proposal Rejecting Preemptive War, Regardless of Whether it is Unilateral or Multilateral (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Durbin's Proposal for a Multilateral Preemptive War (10/10/2002). McCain votes to Reject. --Authorization for Preemptive War Against Iraq (10/11/2002). McCain votes For, pushing and piloting the bill assiduously. The war rolls on, and this proclaimed guardian of the interests of fighting men and women cannot find it in himself to criticize his own cupidity in believing the White House and sending hundreds of American soldiers to their doom in a war over supposed weapons of mass destruction that a year later are still unfound. If questioned, he too is comfortable mouthing the non-answer, "the world is better off with Saddam gone". So, he is not a flip flopper? (So what if its a stupid word...everyone knows what it means) I stated once before Changing a position upon somethng isnt a horrible thing. You also need to look at what attachments there are within the bills on an individual by individual case. But I stand by my statement McCain has done more for this country then Bush ever did or will do. simply fact, he served this country in the US military and was even a POW in Vietnam. That alone puts him as a high caliber of character and class then Bush, whose money and father got him out of the war. Then even leaving service to go work with politics. McCain not only changed his position on a few key issues....he changed his entire party. How could either party trust someone like that? I love that McCain served in the military- I obviously know that. He's a great American for that. Again, how can you trust (vote) someone like that?
May 26, 200620 yr If I answered your questions with yes or no answers, I would be allowing the same black or white thinking that I despise. You asked me if other countries are linked to AQ. None of us know to what degrees a country is linked to AQ. But I do know that fundamentalist threats do continue to reside in certain parts of the world including our own allies. You asked me if we should have invaded Iraq and taken out Saddam. I think Ive been pretty clear that it simply wasnt the time for our foreign policy to be centralized around Saddam Hussein and Iraq. You ask me if we should invade Iran. First off we arent going to invade Iran. We would just bomb them from afar. We probably cant invade Iran with ground troops. It is simply too difficult. Second, if you stopped thinking like GI Joe for a second, you would realize that Iran's leaders arent crazy wackos who only desire to do evil. If you think for a second that this guy wants to get into a war with us, youre blind. He isnt stupid enough to build a bomb and actually use it. Im almost positive that a diplomatic solution can be reached with Iran. But Im pretty sure that trigger happy Bush and the GI mentality that you share with him will not allow diplomacy to reach it's logical ends. This article I posted a while back says a lot. http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...topic=61146&hl= Getting around the answers like a typical politician.... Let me get straight... 1) So yes you think other countries have terrorists....sure most of them do but some more than others....I know that our allies have them too but SOME COUNTRIES may finance them. 2) So yes you would have invaded Iraq but it wasn't the right time. When is a good time? There isn't one....it's now or never. 3) Diplomatic CAN be reached with Iran???? yeah right like what? You didn't answer my question again.....the question was IF A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION CAN NOT BE REACHED WITH IRAN....SHOULD WE INVADE THEM? OR JUST LET THEM GET NUKES?????? answer....
May 26, 200620 yr Bush can do no wrong. He is a smart man, who makes the right decisions, doesn't lie to the people or break the law. Why do i get the feeling that if that approval rating sunk to 3% you'd till be on his side... Your furious at users who arent seeing you side. Why not try too look at both sides of the scale.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.