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McGwire goes on Hall ballot along with Gwynn and Ripken


MrAndMrsFish

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NEW YORK ? (AP) ? Mark McGwire, Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. headline the first-time candidates on the 2007 baseball writers' Hall of Fame ballot released Monday, sure to spark debate on Big Mac's place in history as the steroid era comes under renewed scrutiny.

 

Jose Canseco, whose book last year led to a congressional hearing on steroid use in baseball, also is on the ballot for the first time. Canseco said he used steroids along with McGwire when they were teammates.

 

McGwire denied using illegal performance-enhancing substances, but when he appeared before a congressional committee, he evaded questions. "I'm not here to talk about the past,'' was his repeated response.

 

McGwire finished his career with 583 home runs, seventh in baseball history while Canseco, a former MVP, is 30th at 462. Dave Kingman, 34th with 442, has the most home runs for a player who has been on the Hall of Fame ballot and was not elected.

 

Gwynn, an eight-time batting champion with San Diego, and Ripken, a two-time MVP with Baltimore, are considered likely to gain election on the first ballot. Ripken played in 2,632 consecutive games, breaking Lou Gehrig's record.

 

Bret Saberhagen, a two-time Cy Young Award winner, and former MVP Ken Caminiti also are among 17 players on the ballot for the first time along with Harold Baines, Dante Bichette, Bobby Bonilla, Scott Brosius, Jay Buhner, Eric Davis, Tony Fernandez, Wally Joyner, Paul O'Neill, Devon White and Bobby Witt.

 

Jim Rice, who was 53 votes short of election last year, heads the 15 holdovers. Rich Gossage finished one vote behind Rice.

 

Reporters who have been in the BBWAA for 10 or more consecutive years are eligible to vote, and the totals will be announced Jan. 9.

 

The complete ballot:

 

Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Dante Bichette, Bert Blyleven, Bobby Bonilla, Scott Brosius, Jay Buhner, Ken

Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Dave Concepcion, Eric Davis, Andre Dawson, Tony Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich "Goose'' Gossage, Tony Gwynn, Orel Hershiser, Tommy John, Wally Joyner, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Paul O'Neill, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Devon White, Bobby Witt.

 

 

Wow this is a loaded ballot.....tough choices in this year's class.....should be a fun one to follow

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Guest FishFanInPA

yeah, why does McGwire "better" get in???? THE MAN IS A STEROID FREAK....I realize that it's hypocritical of me as a Bonds fan but McGwire doesn't get in if Bonds doesn't

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yeah, why does McGwire "better" get in???? THE MAN IS A STEROID FREAK....I realize that it's hypocritical of me as a Bonds fan but McGwire doesn't get in if Bonds doesn't

 

I'm the biggest Bonds fan on here, don't take that tone with me. :cool

 

Seriously, here's the standard one must use during the steroid era:

 

UNLESS the person absolutely 100% tested positive for steroids, everyone from the era must be considered in the same boat. That means guys like Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Juan Pierre, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mike Lowell, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa...I don't care. Unless they tested positive, they all tested negative. Forget cloud of suspicion, forget "what should be" (afterall, I think Romero and Sanchez all proved that the most unlikely users used), they're all in the same boat.

 

In terms of era, everyone from the steroid era is either guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty, and either way you have it, guys like Bonds, McGwire and Sosa belong in, or NO ONE belongs in. Period, end of story.

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from what i have read....

 

 

McGwire isnt getting in.

 

 

 

Here is some food for thought...

 

Over his career, Big Mac averaged around 100 base hits a year.

 

He averaged 141 per 162 games.

 

yeah, why does McGwire "better" get in???? THE MAN IS A STEROID FREAK....I realize that it's hypocritical of me as a Bonds fan but McGwire doesn't get in if Bonds doesn't

 

I'm the biggest Bonds fan on here, don't take that tone with me. :cool

 

Seriously, here's the standard one must use during the steroid era:

 

UNLESS the person absolutely 100% tested positive for steroids, everyone from the era must be considered in the same boat. That means guys like Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Juan Pierre, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mike Lowell, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa...I don't care. Unless they tested positive, they all tested negative. Forget cloud of suspicion, forget "what should be" (afterall, I think Romero and Sanchez all proved that the most unlikely users used), they're all in the same boat.

 

In terms of era, everyone from the steroid era is either guilty until proven innocent or innocent until proven guilty, and either way you have it, guys like Bonds, McGwire and Sosa belong in, or NO ONE belongs in. Period, end of story.

 

:notworthy

 

There's a reason you are one of my favorite posters in this place.

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from what i have read....

 

 

McGwire isnt getting in.

 

 

 

Here is some food for thought...

 

Over his career, Big Mac averaged around 100 base hits a year.

 

He averaged 141 per 162 games.

 

 

 

 

unfortunately he didnt play 162 games every year in baseball.

 

 

thats like saying that if only so and so didnt get hurt they could have driven in 140 runs a year or something like that, thats not how things are often measured, its one of the dumbest stats in all of baseball, akin to the per 48 minutes of basketball which is just as useless in the real world.

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from what i have read....

 

 

McGwire isnt getting in.

 

 

 

Here is some food for thought...

 

Over his career, Big Mac averaged around 100 base hits a year.

 

He averaged 141 per 162 games.

 

 

 

 

unfortunately he didnt play 162 games every year in baseball.

 

 

thats like saying that if only so and so didnt get hurt they could have driven in 140 runs a year or something like that, thats not how things are often measured, its one of the dumbest stats in all of baseball, akin to the per 48 minutes of basketball which is just as useless in the real world.

 

 

Ok, but to say he averaged 100 hits a year is just as flawed because he didn't play full years every year. Per 162 is a much better way to see someone's impact, especially over a career, where the small sample size problem can be less strong.

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from what i have read....

 

 

McGwire isnt getting in.

 

 

 

Here is some food for thought...

 

Over his career, Big Mac averaged around 100 base hits a year.

 

He averaged 141 per 162 games.

 

 

 

 

unfortunately he didnt play 162 games every year in baseball.

 

 

thats like saying that if only so and so didnt get hurt they could have driven in 140 runs a year or something like that, thats not how things are often measured, its one of the dumbest stats in all of baseball, akin to the per 48 minutes of basketball which is just as useless in the real world.

 

 

Ok, but to say he averaged 100 hits a year is just as flawed because he didn't play full years every year. Per 162 is a much better way to see someone's impact, especially over a career, where the small sample size problem can be less strong.

 

 

 

how is it flawed?

 

 

ok. he really played 15 and a half years. lets call it 15 if you want to give him half a year in his last year cause he fell apart physically.

 

108.4

 

 

still barely over 100 hits a year. morale of the story, dont get hurt. per 162 is a big what if game. thats not how the sport is played, its played in what you actually did when on the field.

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