Did anyone find Le Retard's article just beyond ridiculous? The 'debate' was over pro/con of Pierre. Cote came out in support - which doesnt take much, and Le Retard tried to show trading him would be good. He tried to use stats and a Billy Beane-esque argument around OPS. But stats dont play the game, Le Retard. Anyway, did anyone else have a huge problem with this article? I just found it ridiculous and embarassing that our 'local' paper would even debate about something so retarded.

The thought of JP being dealed never even crossed my mind. These a**holes are running out of ideas so they make up a bulls*** debate. f*** the Herald!

Link?

How in the f*** can you even consider thinking about pondering the possibility of dealing Juanpy? HOW?

This is a ridiculous article. I didn't even read it and I'm not going to waste my time. Anybody that is pro MARLINS, which he is not and thats why he's biased, would not be in favor of trading Pierre. He is one of the biggest bargains with money and is one of the best, if not the best leadoff hitters in the league. You'd think he'd be glad that we didn't have to worry about CF because of all these other money problems on our team. Pierre is a lock. Why would he complain? He's just a troublemaker and is crying for attention.

I thought the idea of trading Pierre was actually pretty interesting. It's not something that ever would've occurred to me but if you're running a team then you need to consider all possibilities.

 

The most interesting aspect of trading Pierre is the buy low/sell high angle. Pierre's value will never be higher.

 

I thought the rest of LeBatard's arguments were garbage. He stated that it was a "mathematical fact" that Pierre was one of the worst offensive outfielders in the NL because his OPS was low. That's tells me that LeBatard is somebody who can possibly spell OPS but that's about it. OPS doesn't factor in steals (or caught stealing for that matter). It's not hard to work into it but LeBatard hasn't bothered.

 

Somebody on this board wrote a real great post early in the year that said something like Pierre's speed only created an extra 8 runs so it wasn't worth the 16 extra outs he caused. I loved the research but disagreed with the conclusion - I'll trade 16 outs for 8 runs every day of the week. I really like the OPS stat but it will always undervalue somebody like Juan Pierre.

 

So while I find the idea of trading Pierre interesting, I don't agree with it. Also, the LeBatard/Cote debate wasn't as good as anything y'all put on here because LeBatard's idea of a good argument is saying "because I said so!"

 

Josh, here's the link ... http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ard/7218081.htm

Somebody on this board wrote a real great post early in the year that said something like Pierre's speed only created an extra 8 runs for so it wasn't worth the 16 extra outs he caused. I loved the research but disagreed with the conclusion - I'll trade 16 outs for 8 runs every day of the week. I really like the OPS stat but it will always undervalue somebody like Juan Pierre.

Stat geek alert! (I mean the guy who wrote the other post early in the year) Those 16 outs didn't account for how many double plays Pierre broke up by stealing the base or how Pierre disrupts the defense with his speed threat and the added fastballs for the following hitters as well as rushing the tempo of the pitcher to the plate. Pierre's speed is far more valuable than you could figure with any stat.

 

Oh and who would you trade him for? 2.3 million for an excellent leadoff hitter and good fielder that sets the table up for all of our other hitters? The only other option for a cheaper price would be an "iffy" free agent or minor leaguer in our system. Pierre is a young guy and will actualy get better. He will bat for a higher average and steal more bases in the near future. This was not his career year.

Stat geek alert! (I mean the guy who wrote the other post early in the year) Those 16 outs didn't account for how many double plays Pierre broke up by stealing the base or how Pierre disrupts the defense with his speed threat and the added fastballs for the following hitters as well as rushing the tempo of the pitcher to the plate. Pierre's speed is far more valuable than you could figure with any stat.

 

Oh and who would you trade him for? 2.3 million for an excellent leadoff hitter and good fielder that sets the table up for all of our other hitters? The only other option for a cheaper price would be an "iffy" free agent or minor leaguer in our system. Pierre is a young guy and will actualy get better. He will bat for a higher average and steal more bases in the near future. This was not his career year.

Um, who are you arguing with?

 

Go find and read the post before you rip somebody. The original post wasn't disparaging Pierre at all, just rightfully calling into question the cost of the extra outs.

I found this article to be ridiculous in that there is no basis for these arguements. Juan is not a free agent, or even arbitration eligible. There have been NO rumors even about trading him. So why the debate? I could see doing one about Lowell, or Lee, or Enc, but why Pierre? The rationalization for writing the articles in the first place should be interesting. Is the Herald THAT hard up for material?

Stat geek alert! (I mean the guy who wrote the other post early in the year) Those 16 outs didn't account for how many double plays Pierre broke up by stealing the base or how Pierre disrupts the defense with his speed threat and the added fastballs for the following hitters as well as rushing the tempo of the pitcher to the plate. Pierre's speed is far more valuable than you could figure with any stat.

 

Oh and who would you trade him for? 2.3 million for an excellent leadoff hitter and good fielder that sets the table up for all of our other hitters? The only other option for a cheaper price would be an "iffy" free agent or minor leaguer in our system. Pierre is a young guy and will actualy get better. He will bat for a higher average and steal more bases in the near future. This was not his career year.

Um, who are you arguing with?

 

Go find and read the post before you rip somebody. The original post wasn't disparaging Pierre at all, just rightfully calling into question the cost of the extra outs. Thanks for ignoring my posts on the other board though. I appreciated it. :lol :lol :o :hat

That is just the point. The Herald lacks brains and anykind of insight. They could have made a more compelling debate over Lowell, Encarnacion, etc. But Pierre? You will never find a harder working guy in all of baseball and stats are very limiting in what information they can tell. Besides, the reason why Pierre/Castillo was so good this year is because the havoc they created for the opposing team's defense. Look at what it did to the Yankees in the World Series.

Thanks for ignoring my posts on the other board though. I appreciated it. :lol :lol :o :hat

I've been out of town for 4 days, trying to connect on a dial up modem. Sorry, but doing salary analysis at 24k just isn't any fun.

 

Now that I'm home, I did just read the CBA to find out salary arbitration rules for you. But I'm kicking myself for taking the time. I'll post it in the other thread.

Juanpy should be signed for a million years, not talked about being on the trade block.

Reapeat: Link?

Reapeat: Link?

Repeat : You never read my posts do you? Because you'd see the link I put in for you, by name.

 

Shoudn't columnists be more observant than that?

Reapeat: Link?

Repeat : You never read my posts do you? Because you'd see the link I put in for you, by name.

 

Shoudn't columnists be more observant than that? I didn't read anyones posts.

 

Just skimmed through.

 

My bad, cuh.

I don't think we should ignore any options when it comes to signing our more valuable players (Lowell, AJ, Castillo, Lee) and I agree with 83gator's buy low/sell high statement. If someone is willing to offer a nice package for JP then we should at least consider it. OPS is a nice stat for a quick glance at a players offensive skills, but it undervalues certain types of players like JP. Rarely strikes out or walks leading to high pitch counts which can have a large effect, especially in a small series (playoff series for ex.) and his incredible speed/buting prowess. We all know he can barely hit the ball out of the infield, but his value isn't fairly respresented by OPS. His OF range is above average, although his arm frequently gives runners an extra base. I'd trade almost anyone if the package was right and I'm sure Beinfest will entertain offers for any player. Even more so if said team is willing to overpay.